User talk:Ndsg/Archive 1

Archive 1

GR

Great job! I rearranged some stuff, but overall it's off to a good start. You may want to switch some of the lists to either prose or tables in order to make the article easier to navigate and search through. Do you have any plans for the article, like WP:GA or WP:FA? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:28, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your positive comments! I'm replying here, on my own Talk page: is that the usual practice?

As you'll see from the History of this page, I didn't write the original article. I only came across it recently, & it's my first WP edit of any significance. I've made some pretty extensive changes, but kept much of the first part of the History section.

I take your point about the lists, & I'll see what I can do to make the article more user-friendly! OTOH I didn't want it to be merely a dry set of tables of initials & finals.

As for plans for the article -- well, it would be nice to see it up there with the best & most authoritative (ie GA or FA), but that is for others to judge. Ndsg 10:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi again Ndsg. I hope I can help answer your questions.

Concerning your talkpage, there is no set-in-stone policy about where you respond to messages left here. You can answer here, on another page, both pages, or whatever. Aside from this, I noticed that you removed a thread on your page. In general, it is encouraged that you archive old discussions onto a subpage, like User talk:Ndsg/Archive 1.

As for the GR article, I believe you should know that it is not at all unusual for an editor to undertake a personal project, often being a drive to bring an effort up to good or featured status. If you have enough interest in it, I would be willing to help you out, and I think you could find some editors willing to do so as well. There are editors in this encyclopedia who churn out awesome articles like a farmer churns butter.

I am not the most experienced of the editors out there, but I can direct you to some, and give you some pointers if you want. Check out Wikipedia:Featured article criteria and consider setting up a peer review if you want. However, I can understand if you don't want to make this into such a big deal. FWIW, I myself have remained a wikignome for most of my time here, and I've gotten by just fine. Cheers, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

1. Thanks for making the point about archiving old discussions, which I shall do in future. Actually, the bit I deleted was just a message from another editor thanking me for an edit & welcoming me to the Wiki community, giving me general information & guidelines.
2. I think I may have WikiGnome-like tendencies myself: I've even caught myself being my own gnome on the GR page ...
3. I don't know about a "big deal"—but having already spent some time on revising & expanding this article, I would like to leave it in a decent state. Maybe this is just another example of the Concorde fallacy!
4. At present I'm preparing some tables (which I previously described as "dry") laying out initials & finals & highlighting the main GR/Pinyin differences. The existing Segmental features section will then be a commentary in prose on these differences.
5. Yes, please, do point me in the direction of any other editors who'd be prepared to cast a critical eye over my efforts. And thank you for your time & help. Ndsg | Talk 09:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey again. If you want a really good example of using tables, check out the tables in the Pinyin article. The letters in brackets are the IPA pronunciations, which I can help you with if you're not familiar with the International Phonetic Alphabet. In terms of helpful editors, User:Ravedave is a very helpful editor who helped me bring IPA up to good article status. He is somewhat inactive, however, because he and his wife recently had a child. User:Linuxbeak is a famous but now semi-active bureaucrat who had done some nice FA work. I will try to find some more people, as well as work on the article myself. These days I am restricted to nights and weekends editing wikipedia, as well as any sparse free time (my daily amount of free time is somewhat sporadic). Cheers, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 02:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'd seen the Pinyin tables, & liked the colours (I'm from the UK, hence the eccentric spelling.) I am familiar with IPA (in fact I've even written a program that converts SAMPA to IPA on the fly). However, I'm not convinced that the GR article really needs much IPA content: this is an article on romanization, after all, not Chinese linguistics/phonology.

(As an aside, I've commented on the excessive details on minutiae of pronunciation in the Pinyin article: see Talk:Pinyin.)

Thanks for the details on helpful editors. Are you going to mention the GR article to them, or should I contact them myself? Cheers. NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm back again. IPA is usually used as the standard around here for pronounciation, although we run into some problems with it and Mandarin chinese (for example, the /i/ in hanzi could be written as /ɪ/ or /z/ in IPA depending on the speaker). People who want to know the specifics of GR will probably want IPA equivalents as a reference point. Concerning UK/US spelling, editors are required to stick with the same spelling scheme as the article was started in. The only exception is articles pertaining to Anglophone countries, in which the country's spelling is used (and of course, you can spell words in whatever way suits you on talkpages). I've already contacted an editor already, but I'll get around to reaching some more people. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Copying table formats

PS [Still addressed to Ikiroid] Having had another look at the Pinyin tables, I think I'll just copy them as a template for use in my GR tables. Is this wikicceptable practice? NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:41, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Sure, just make sure you change the pinyin part to GR. People play copycat all the time around here, of course it can be euphemistically called "standardization" :-P The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, the tables are now in the Segmental features section, suitably highlighted. I think this gives a context for the Notes on GR spelling that follow.

I've also added a reference to a negative finding on GR in language teaching. NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 18:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Further tables & an image?

I've just about done all I want to do on this page, but there are still one or two possible additions:

1. an image of Shaanxi Univ of Science & Tech (banner illustrates the one surviving pseudo-GR spelling in China). I'm unsure about copyright here.
2. a sortable table of GR vs. Pinyin spellings (where they differ)
3. a comparative table of Chinese province names in GR & Pinyin, with GR "tonal clue" letters highlighted

Any reactions or comments welcomed. NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 13:01, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know whether or not you can use that image. If it is copyrighted, you will want to check up on whether or not your usage of the picture, as well as the picture itself, fits under wikipedia's fair use criteria. However, if it is licenced under Creative Commons, GNU, GFDL, public domain, or some other lenient licencing you can simply upload it onto wikipedia without a problem. Read into Wikipedia:Uploading images for more info. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 04:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

GR

I'll try and spend some time on the article over the next few days. -Ravedave ^{(Adopt a State)} 15:54, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks: I appreciate your help. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 15:57, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh and I would recommend also asking User:Meersan for help. She is a good editor and loves languages. -Ravedave ^{(Adopt a State)} 15:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks: I've contacted her. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Apology

Hi Nigel. I'm terribly sorry I haven't contacted you for so long, but my computer's acting brilliantly horrible, screeching and moaning, and the CPU is overclocking and overworking for no reason (which may be the source of the noises). I vacuumed out the inside of it and the noises have let up a bit, but it only lasts a few minutes before the screeching recommences. I'll try to get to a public computer, such as a library terminal, but it's a bit of a project to get there most of the time. Anyway, there is an editor whom I introduced to wikipedia, User:Clyde Miller, who may be able to help you (Clyde has brought one article up to FA status and another to GA). Of course, these articles are about video games, so the help may only be copyediting and such. I am in the process of finishing up building a new computer which will hopefully be ready for the internet, or else I'll resort to getting this one repaired. Regards, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 23:12, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

GR (so original)

Your welcome for the help, but I don't know how much more I will be able to help you. I am not a linguist, but I would be willing to help in any other way I can (maybe as an out-of-universe perspective).

Sure, the OOUP is an important one! The non-specialist who's come across the crazy term GR needs to be able to grasp the essentials of what it's all about from the lead section, & then delve a bit deeper if s/he wants to.

One question at the back of my mind is: Should the illustrative example towards the end of the article have an English translation as well as the characters & Pinyin? I'm tending to think it should -- otherwise it simply excludes all non-Chinese-speaking readers.

Unfortunatly, as to the image, if the building still exists, you're not allowed to use it. If you go to the upload file and click on the licenses, it says picture of an existing building is invalid. I'd guess that this is because a free alternitive could be easily made, simply by going there and taking the picture (I use simply in a very rough fashion). If you really are serious about this, you might want to ask if the image is fair use on the Fair use talk page (you are a braver man than I) or you could email the people who took the picture (most likely someone at the university) and ask for expressed permission to use the picture in this article.--Clyde (talk) 00:28, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to get too hung up on this particular image. The more general point is: should the article contain any image(s), just to relieve the monotony of acres of text? Isn't that almost a WP policy? So if you have any other suggestions for images I'd appreciate them. Thanks again for all your hard work. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:33, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Gliding

Thanks for your input. Have you considered creating an article on gliding flight computers? JMcC 12:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

As I said on Talk:Gliding, I have neither the time nor the expertise to do so. (As you will have noticed from this page, my WP effort is concentrated on Chinese.)

I've mentioned flight computers to our resident boffin at Aston Down (a PhD student), & he expressed interest, but is currently very busy. He also didn't feel he knew enough about the history of these devices—so it might be worth finding someone to do that aspect of it.

If someone does make a start on flight computers, I'd be happy to do a bit of editing. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 13:01, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

My objective has always been just to inform the layman about gliding, just enough to interest him/her and to dispel a few myths. I am therefore not all that concerned about flight computers being described in much more detail. JMcC 17:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Kiarostami

Thanks for your review :-)

The names of the films are all in English. So the problem you are refering to must be in names of people. There are some names that are used every where like director's name and we have to live with them (I used the names according to the common form in festivals and IMDb; e.g. Sohrab Shahid-Saless). Is there any particular transliteration problem that attracted your attention ? Sangak 19:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

First of all, I'm not a film buff, though I have seen & enjoyed a couple of AK's films, such as Khane-ye Dust Kojast.

If you have a look at the MOS page I linked to, you'll see that there are different WP styles of transliteration of Arabic (& Persian): standard, primary and strict. For a famous city in Iran these would, I think, be Esfahan, Isfahan & Iṣfahān. My impression—& I should point out that I'm not an experienced WPian—is that in the opening sentence, where you give his name in Persian in bold type, you should also give the strict (scholarly) transliteration: `Abbās Kīārustamī. Thereafter you can continue with the normal ("primary" or "standard") version which you do in fact use.

Sorry about the film titles: you're quite right, they're all in English—except in the Filmography section, where the Persian titles are also given. These should (I think) all be in the so-called standard transliteration: eg Zang va Kucheh, Tajrebeh, Man ham mitunam, Bozorgdasht-e Mo`allem, etc etc. (NB grave accent ` = `eyn, apostrophe ' = hamzeh.) Quite a few of them look as if they're taken from French sources: if those spellings are commonly used in English-speaking countries (ie "primary" transliterations), fine! Otherwise they should be corrected.

Some of the Articles are in Persian: they should really have the titles in Persian script as well.

Finally, there is a reference to Hamrah ba bad (NB should be in italics in the article), but no indication for the benefit of the foreign reader that this is the same as Walking with the wind.

I hope these comments provide some useful guidance: sorry I can't devote any more time to this article, as I have other commitments! All the best --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 23:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Very helpful and clear comments. I will try to fix them. About the Persian names of the films, unfortunately companies who released the films and also festivals as well as IMDb did not follow the transliteration similar to what we have in wikipedia. The situation is very confusing now. Take care. Sangak 08:11, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The filmography section is now a separate article. So the persian names of the films are not in the article anylonger. Take care. Sangak 14:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Progress of GR

First off, I'd like to say that you've come a long way with the article. There hasn't been a lot of other editors working on this page (which is to be expected, to some degree, on such a specialized topic) but nevertheless the improvement has been steady, and it's all due to your perseverence. You've made an excellent choice by opening the article up to peer review—expect some activity in the next few days. Don't worry about Ravedave and Linuxbeak—we're lucky that we found at least one editor (Clyde Miller) who has the time to look at the topic. Don't expect other editors to always readily help out, they may be too busy or inexperienced about the topic. On that note, I've fond another editor, Budding Journalist, who may be interested in doing some copyedit work. I'll drop them a note about the article. Keep up the good work, you're doing awesome! The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 21:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Multimedia

Did you know you can upload audio and even video? See Wikipedia:Media. I can help you with this if you are interested. --Ideogram 09:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for mentioning this. Is this a general point of information, or did you have the GR article in mind? I wouldn't have thought that audio/video would have that much to offer for that article; but perhaps I'm wrong.

Unfortunately my hardware is rather antiquated, so video is almost out of the question for me until I upgrade my computer! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

A sound file can be quite short, such as one syllable, so I thought they could be used to highlight the different phonemes and tones. I could even create and upload these files for you, although I must admit I have a marked Taiwanese accent. Whether this is useful or not is entirely up to you. --Ideogram 10:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the offer. On balance I don't think the article would benefit from multimedia. I've made the point on Talk:Pinyin that these articles are supposed to be about writing systems, not phonology or the basics of the Chinese language. Parts of Pinyin seem to me to be little more than Teach Yourself Mandarin! (I think much of it should be scrapped or rewritten—but that's just my biased opinion!) --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that you could do a lot of good work on Pinyin given that you are able to work with consensus. --Ideogram 21:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think I'll just finish GR first! I had no idea how much time editing can take. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I let other people do the hard work, I just rearrange it. --Ideogram 11:33, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Chao photo copyright

I'm looking for a non-copyright photo of Yuen Ren Chao for inclusion in Gwoyeu Romatzyh. Any suggestions? --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 17:36, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I suggest googling him and Googling nonprofits of him also. WikiMan53 (talk • contribs • count) Review Me!

WikiMan53

Thanks for the suggestions, but I've tried Google to no avail. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 21:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Ndsg. Have you tried Wikimedia Commons? Failing that, a non-copyrighted image (in the public domain) will likely not be easy to find. However, you might try requesting copyright permission of a copyrighted image that you found elsewhere. Hope this helps. —Xhantar^Talk 20:12, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm currently trying to secure such permission from one promising source. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 21:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

pinyin.info

This was found via a search for "Yuan Ren Chao" on google images. It's kind of sad that most of the images are of some popstar, but what can you do. --Ideogram 21:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. In fact I contacted the webmaster about this photo about a month ago, & he replied:

" I scanned the photo from Chao's wife's book _Autobiography of a Chinese Woman_ (1947). And since my copy of this is signed by both Yang Buwei and Chao himself in both Hanzi and romanization, I scanned in one of his signatures and superimposed it on the photo."

So the book was published 60 years ago, & the photo's a composite! Where does that leave us from the point of view of copyright? --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 22:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. You can ask at the Village Pump. --Ideogram 22:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Public domain, the copyright of anything published before January 1, 1923, anywhere in the world, would have expired and thus be public domain in the US, so unfortunately that would not be the case for your book, published 60 years ago. I would suggest posting under "Pre-inclusion Help" at WP:copyvio. They exist as a resource to help users determine the copyright status of material and whether or not it can be included on Wikipedia, before trying to do so. —Xhantar^Talk 23:10, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion: done! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

A photograph first published in the Republic of China or the People's Republic of China more than 50 years ago would have an expired copyright and is in the public domain So if you can find it in a Chinese book older than 50 years? I think this would be a promising avenue, provided you can find such books. --Sumple (Talk) 22:55, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Excellent idea, but I don't seem to have any such book! Anyone else out there who could scan & upload one? Ah, wait a moment, I think I have seen an online image from his book or article Keshyue / Kēxué. The hunt continues ... --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 23:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Help recruited

I dropped messages on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject League of Copyeditors and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China. Hopefully we'll attract an expert or two ;-) By the way, have you seen User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:07, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, 'roid. Let's see what happens ... Apart from expanding the History section with some details from DeFrancis, I don't really feel there's much more to be said about the subject: maybe WikiFatigue is kicking in.

Yes, I've read Tony1's article—but will have another look. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:09, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Aviation proposal

There is currently a proposal to create an Aviation WikiProject, which would serve to clarify how all the aviation related projects relate, and help with interproject editing. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Aircraft#Proposal_Recap for how the projects hierarchy. Part of the reorganization proposes that WikiProject Gliding become a task force of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Aircraft (or perhaps the Aviation Project itself). For an idea of how task forces work, take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history. They have a number of task forces, listed here. As described by them, "task forces are informal groups of editors gathered for collaborative work on a particular topic within the field of military history; all project members are encouraged to participate in any that interest them." The benefit of such a system it that the sub-topics have all the resources of the overall project at their disposal. For instance, the Military history project banner, is placed on every military history page, and the related task forces are listed at the bottom of it. All miltary history related articles are thereby joined under one roof. If you have any ideas or comments, please join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aircraft. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 20:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Kiarostami

Salam!

I replied to your comment on the talk page. Please whether the current photo is OK or not. About the trasliteration, I suggest we use the correct Persian pronounciation (the way Iranian say the word). If I understood you correctly `A is not the way Iranian pronounce it. Then I sould replace it with A. right? Sangak 11:26, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

By the way the article passed GA assessment and I am going to nominate it for FA soon. Thanks for your detailed comments. take care. Sangak 11:27, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Based on the feedbacks I got from peer reviewers and also during GA assessment, I think the article is pretty much ready to become FA. However it may be better to have a final round of copyeditting preferably by English native speakers. Would that be possible for you to help me in this final stage? Sangak 11:44, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

First of all, congratulations on your GA status, which is richly deserved. I may have another quick look at the article, but I am rather busy at the moment bringing another article up to GA/FA myself!

As for the spelling of Kiarostami, it's only the first sentence that I was talking about (& the photo caption, because you've included the Persian spelling). There it should be `Abbās Kiyārustamī; everywhere else Abbas Kiarostami is fine.

Good luck. NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 11:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I will replace it. Use:Jahangard is also very much interested in transliterations. When I used `Abbās Kiyārustamī he said it is wrong. I will replace it again. Thanks. Sangak 12:06, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Transliteration

For now I use the MOS-AR. But soon or late we have to have a new guideline I suggest we make a draft here first before proposing it. I copy/pasted the Arabic guideline to my user:page. let's work here first and then propose it. User:Sangak/Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Persian)

Sangak 12:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

By the way, what was that "farangi" on the wikiproject page?! :-) Sangak 12:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Sure, go ahead & propose it. But make sure you discuss it on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Arabic)#Persian again. I've started a thread there (I see there have been previous discussions about Persian in the Archive).

Basically it's up to you non-farangis to decide on a system that's

1. acceptable to most Iranians
2. acceptable by the rigorous standards of WP in general & the MOS people in particular!

I don't think there's much more that I can contribute at this stage. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 18:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Kiarostami: FAC

Hi

I would like to invite all those who reviewed "Abbas Kiarostami" during last two months to comment on the article at this "final" stage. The article is now featured article candidate. In case you have any comment, please let me know on the Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Abbas Kiarostami page. Thanks.Sangak 16:23, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

GR

My thoughts on GT:

• The intro should be a summary, currently it is completly info not found elsewhere
• There needs to be a better discussion of when the system entered usage, when it fell out of use and where it is used today twards the top of the article, perhaps in the history section.
• "GR was the official romanization system in the Republic of China (ROC) until 1949." - When did it become official?
• language learning should probably go twards the top of the article

I have only a passing interest in linguistics so I cannot really tell you how good the whole middle section of the article is. I can however say that the article is lacking for non-linguists. All of the non linguistic stuff should be concentrated at the top of the article and worked together.

Overall it's a pretty good article though - Ravedave ^{(Adopt a State)} 05:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for your dedication to the article. WP always needs more ppl willing to take an article and make it great.-Ravedave ^{(Adopt a State)} 17:08, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Note from Doc Rock--Tone Sandhi

I've been offline for awhile due to various reasons. I've just seen your GR essay. It looks great at first blush, but in my quick scan I didn't note anything on tone sandhi. Any reason to not address it? Or, for that matter, to address it? I'll try to read it in more detail when I can get some time. Best, Doc Rock —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ed4linda (talk • contribs) 16:14, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

Good point. TS is mentioned only once in the article: in the Exceptions section, in connection with the invariant spelling of i, bu, chi & ba. I'll see if I can work in a more general discussion somewhere.

Thanks for your attentive reading. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 18:06, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Kiarostami was promoted!

Dear Ndsg

I need to thank you for your kind assistance in peer reviewing the article. The article would not come to FA status without your helps. Thanks and All the best. Sangak ^Talk 11:26, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Gwoyeu Romatzyh's rank

Don't lose hope—you've done a really great job on this. I have no doubt that this will get GA, and in its current state you could probably make it to FA. I realize that there hasn't been a large amount of editors doing work, but we must be glad for the few that have helped. To tell you the truth, I think other editors are intimidated by the article's title. ;-) Anyway, great job. I suspect the reason that it hasn't been assessed yet is because it last in a line of three articles in the language section of the GA nomination page. Between you, me, and the wall, it seems to have the best chance out of all three. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Update: Clyde Miller left me some advice after I requested some help. Apparently, it is perfectly normal to wait a truly long time to get your article rated. We need to get the articles in front of it in line rated. I can do the first one, but I've edited Romanization of Chinese recently, so I can't do it. Do you want to? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 04:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Please see response on your Talk. -- NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:Rom of Chin

Hi again. Sorry about the late response. Regarding GA: don't promote it yet. I'm going to work on the issues you expressed. If you want, you can put out a more complete list on the article's talkpage. I looked over some of the other Language GAs, and a large amount of them appear to be poorly sourced, missing external links and pictures, and wanting in prosal quality. In other words, we need to reset the standard here, so criticism is welcome :-) The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 14:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Update: it got passed. Well, let's improve it anyway. After all, it's about the articles themselves, not their statuses. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 01:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Babel

You may want to take a gander at these userboxes—they're a nice, standardised way of colorising one's linguistic capabilities. There's one for each major Chinese variety, too. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:57, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

These are great fun: there's a huge temptation to claim Basic Tok Pisin or Intermediate Scots or Old English. Or even luentfay Igpay Atinlay ... I was able to correct a couple of the Ottoman ones, so I've done my bit of gnoming for the day.

There's a splendid joke in the Ancient Greek series: under "native speaker" it says, in perfect Attic Greek, something like "Since Ancient Greek is a dead language, no one can speak it like a native." --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 15:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow! It takes one hell of a mind to pick up Ancient Greek. I'm eager to see what you display on your userpage. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 22:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Peer review for GR

You know, I was reading over the article again and I'm beginning to suspect that we don't need another peer review. What do you say we just close it and go for FAC? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Well once you go to FAC, the peer review is supposed to be archived. However, with the backlog bogging things down, taking matters into your own hands might be for the best.--Clyde (talk) 19:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, let's progress to FAC. Would you (Ikiroid) set the ball rolling with the archiving & nomination, please, while I don my tin helmet! Or I'll self-nominate, if you prefer. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 22:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I think that you should do it. You're the one who has put in over 200 edits to the article. I'll help you when it gets going, but this is your moment to reveal this opus. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 23:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Done. Let's see what happens. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:28, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added the FAC to my watchlist, and now I'm holding fast. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 14:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

FAC submission

As we wait for reactions, I was wondering what happened to the first peer review. Was it archived? And if so, where? I'd like to put in a link to that as well if possible. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 17:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Both are now available at the top of the page. By the way, Clyde Miller found some information which he believes needs to be cited. I've cited one thing, but the other two require information about a specific dictionary (view the peer review for the full comment). The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 00:47, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I've added a couple of citations for the Lin dictionary. Clyde's comments struck me as reasonable—certainly nothing too harsh!

I still can't find the first peer review: at the top of which page? --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 10:23, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Under "article milestones" (part of the GA template) there are two reviews on the timeline. Simply click on the earlier one. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 20:53, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks: found it at last! (Not that there was much there ...). --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 21:26, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Mendip Gliding

Hi,

I've made the wording change you suggested on the Mendip Hills article. Do you have the copyright for the photo of Cheddar Reservoir? if so you could add it to the appropriate article. Would you like to express your comments/support on Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mendip Hills?— Rod ^talk 12:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for including gliding. No, I'm afraid I don't have the copyright for that photo. As it's clearly taken from a glider, the MGC might well let you use it, I imagine.

Meanwhile, I'll have another look at the article & respond accordingly on the FAC page. All the best. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 17:54, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

GR FAC

I feel guilty that I can't do much more than comment due to the fact I don't have any of the paper references. Do you want me to copyedit something or locate a page on the web for you? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I'll keep a sharp eye on it all ;-) The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

CONGRATULATIONS!

Have some champagne!

Gwoyeu Romatzyh passed FA! Congratulations! I found out after my response to the most recent comment was edit conflicted out by the promotion...best edit conflict ever! :-) If I were you, I'd add {{User Featured Article|Gwoyeu Romatzyh}} to your userpage (after all, you've logged in 200+ edits to the article). By the way...I've been wanting to give you this:

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For amazing work on bringing Gwoyeu Romatzyh up to FA status, I, the ikiroid, award Nigel this Tireless Contributor Barnstar. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 02:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Again, nice work, and all the best. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 02:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

i'll just tag along here.... Congratulations on G-R making it to FA! You should be very proud of your excellent work. --Sumple (Talk) 11:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Definately congratulations in order - a thoroughly good article this one. Glad to have been of some small assitance with suggestions last month - Peripitus (Talk) 11:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Hullo (←my go at British English), just replying to some of the comments you've left on my talkpage. I think it was a great idea to go thank the editors for helping out with the article, and I think it is in order to thank Sandy Georgia too, since they helped with the references and pointed out our non-standard usage of colo(u)r. Thank you for the compliments about the work I contributed, although it still pales in comparison with yours ;-)

On another note, would you be interested in joining WikiProject Writing systems? It's not a binding contract or anything, but it indicates that you help out in the field and that you are someone who can help out in the topic. After seeing all of the great work you contributed here, I think that you would be a valuable member. If you don't want to join, I won't hold it against you. Either way, I'm fine with your decision. Cheers, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 21:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Grats, glad I could help out. -Ravedave 05:20, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations! --Joshua Chiew 09:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Glad you made it! If you ever hear anything on the color issue, will you please let me know? Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:59, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

responded to your question on WikiProject Spam

Hi Ngsd. Just a heads up since it's been days since you left the message and I thought you might have given up on us! You might get more responses and differing opinions at WP:EL. -- Siobhan Hansa 03:55, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Re:Wikipedia et al.

No problem! I hope you enjoy your holiday—gliding sounds like fun!. Regarding the wikiprojects, there is a Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages if you are interested. I'm not actually a member of it, although I do enough work with linguistics topics to know that they have a presence around here. I understand how an article overhaul can burn out an editor, so just take it easy. You're ahead of most editors who have been here for a year, in terms of encyclopedia work. By the way, do you know all of the languages that you have on your webpage? All the best, The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 12:21, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion about WP:Lang. May well swallow the bait. My webpage?? Oh, you've googled it, I suppose. Well, I've never yet been taken for a native IPA or Ancient Greek speaker, I'm afraid. Romanian & Esperanto are recent additions, so I know them less well: Esperanto turned out to be (slightly) more interesting than I'd expected, but I didn't really catch the bug. The others I've known for some time, & 2 of them (Persian & Turkish) I studied formally at university. Chinese has been a hobby for some years now. I've been to China twice, so I have some experience of trying to speak Mandarin!

Just to keep my hand in, I've been having a look at Modern Greek (the article, not the language). It's a lot less stressful being a reviewer than working at the coalface ... --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 18:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I found your page through the external links in Gwoyeu Romatzyh. You went to Oxford? Pretty damn impressive... The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Project suggestion

Excellent work on GR. For your next project, let me suggest you work on Romanization of Chinese. It is already basically a GA, just needs referencing fixes. I think you could easily turn it into a FA. --Ideogram 20:01, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Gazetemiz yazarlarından

Nigel, Lewis Turkish Grammar spends about ten pages on the ins and outs of izafet groups; I wouldn't dare try to summarize them, especially since my Turkish is very basic. --Macrakis 03:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Mentioning that you learned Turkish from Lewis at Oxford is hardly "pulling rank", but rather very relevant! What little Turkish I know, I taught myself from his Teach Yourself Turkish, and I now have the Turkish Grammar as a reference. But I never got very far, and have not returned to Turkey for over 20 years.

What can I say about ancient Greek syntax except that it would be wonderful to have you (and others) write it up? Morphology is a much easier topic to cover (copying paradigms from a source doesn't constitute plagiarism), so it's not surprising that we have too much morphology and not much syntax. --Macrakis 13:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Turkish language

Hey, I responded on my talkpage. I apologize for the long wait, I usually much more prompt than this :-/ The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 18:12, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Lewis

I wish I could help, but I, too, have the 1st edition.... --Macrakis 20:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Catastrophic success is fascinating, isn't it? --Macrakis 20:21, 27 April 2007 (UTC)