Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Cardiff City F.C./archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 27 April 2019 [1].

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Cardiff City F.C.

Nominator(s): Kosack (talk) 19:30, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

This article is about Cardiff City, a Welsh association football club playing in the English Football League. I nominated this in late 2017 and it failed due to a lack of reviewers. It's been a while since then, I've tweaked, tuned and improved bits here and there, submitted it for a peer review and had an editor from the WP:GOCE give it the once over. Hopefully it'll get across the line this time. Look forward to any comments. Kosack (talk) 19:30, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

CommentsSupport by Cas Liber

I enjoyed reading the article and think it is on its way to a shiny star. Just a few quibbles.....

• During the 1960s, Cardiff began qualifying for European competition for the first time as a result of winning the Welsh Cup. - is this because they just won the Welsh Cup for the first time or because the cup winners became eligible for the first time? - Expanded slightly

• [After dropping into the Third Division, ]Cardiff were continuously in the lower two divisions of the Football League between 1985 and 1993 - suggest bracketed bit is redundant as you've just mentioned the relegation at the end of the previous para. - Removed

• In June 2009, the club completed construction of a state-of-the-art 26,828-seat stadium on the site of the now-demolished old Cardiff Athletics Stadium at a cost of £48 million - does "state-of-the-art" actually mean anything? -Removed

• what kit did the club play in between 1930 and 1992? There is no diagram of that one...

@Casliber: Thanks for your comments, I've fixed the first three issues. In regards to the kit, I was trying to include the most significant changes in the club colours and the kit was pretty consistent in that time. Kosack (talk) 06:57, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Yeah but you haven't listed which one of the ones is it, I figured it was one of the blue shirt white shorts ones....anyway, should be easy to fix. All else is fine on comprehensiveness and prose. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:56, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

I've added an extra one in to cover the extended time period. Thanks for the support. Kosack (talk) 10:19, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

Image review

• Suggest scaling up the table position graph - Done

• File:Cardiff_City_squad_1920.jpg: when/where was this first published? What steps were taken to try to ascertain authorship?

I'm unaware of the original publisher and author. The picture is not used in any of the print sources I possess, the only two uses I have found on the net are very unlikely to have any claim to the rights. I have searched the British Newspaper Archive and it appears the photo was not published in any newapaper at the time either which is why I used the license linked to the picture. Kosack (talk) 21:21, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

This needs a US PD tag, and the UK tag in use requires you to specify in the image description what steps were taken - suggest adding some of your commentary here there. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:32, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

• File:CardiffCityFC_League_Performance.svg: what is the source of the data presented in this graph?

The image is the work of another editor so I'm unsure of the source they are using. I have added a source that supports the information to the caption.

• Three of the four FURs for the historical logos are quite generic, and the fourth is incomplete - these need to be stronger to warrant the inclusion of all four. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:32, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: In all honesty I'm not good with image licensing at all. If the use of the club badges is objectionable, I would have no problem with their removal. Thanks for taking a look, let me know your thoughts. Kosack (talk) 21:21, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

The issue is that they're non-free, and at the moment they are not well justified. If they are to be kept, that needs to change. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:32, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: I've added the US PD tag and provided a brief commentary of searches undertaken for the squad image. I've removed the older logos. Kosack (talk) 21:46, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

If you're going to be using that tag, we need to find a pre-1923 publication, not just creation. That's going to be a problem if there wasn't a contemporary usage. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:40, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria: I've emailed one of the websites that have it in use to see if they have the information. Until this can be established, I've removed the image and added two new ones, both of which are much more stable license-wise. Kosack (talk) 08:26, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Comments by Hzh

Comments resolved

The article looks good. I will start with a general comment, other comments will be added over the next few days. The history section can be tightened a little - since there are already separate articles on the history, the history in the main article should be more of a summary. For example, the description of the goal scored in the 1927 FA Cup final can be shortened, also the word "clumsily" seems a bit editorialising, and not given in the source (same for the wording under pressure from the advancing Len Davies). The reference given is dead and there is no video footage in the archived link, although footage of the goal can be seen in other websites e.g. [2]. Simply saying that the ball slipped out and he knocked it into the net with his elbow is sufficient, and supported by the Wales online source. Hzh (talk) 14:38, 22 February 2019 (UTC) Trimmed and swapped refs. Kosack (talk) 16:25, 22 February 2019 (UTC) Lead Generally, I think it is preferable not to have a one-sentence paragraph, perhaps you can consider rewriting the first paragraph (the links are not Wikipedia guidelines, just suggestions, but I think they are generally sound). Hzh (talk) 19:25, 22 February 2019 (UTC) I've added a little extra and reorganised some of the info to level the paragraphs out now. I think you can move the last two sentences of the second paragraph to the end of the first - seems logical to keep the sentences about being in football league together. Hzh (talk) 13:36, 23 February 2019 (UTC) Just a query out of curiosity, is there a reason why the Bluebirds is used as a nickname apart from the bird being blue, the colour of the strip? Hzh (talk) 19:00, 22 February 2019 (UTC) There are a few theories but no definite answer unfortunately. The most popular is that it was based on a play titled "The Blue Bird" that was touring the area at the time of the club's rebrand. An extract from Grahame Lloyd's detailed history of the club mentions it HERE but I don't believe there's an officially recognised reason. Kosack (talk) 22:08, 22 February 2019 (UTC) Early years (1899–1920) Some of the following are just suggestions, you are not obliged to keep all the suggestions. I noticed some quirks, but everyone has their own, I'm not sure if they are worth mentioning. First sentence - link lithographic, unlink Cardiff, the second comma can be removed (the reference following that comma can be moved to the end of the sentence). - Done Query - are merging with Riverside Albion and wining their first honour something worth mentioning? Hzh (talk) 14:43, 23 February 2019 (UTC) The merge with Riverside Albion seems to simply have been absorbing Albion rather than a significant moment, the board and management seemingly remained unchanged. The Bevan Shield is described as a minor honour in the paper sources I have and has no Wiki page (and probably wouldn't qualify for one), so I chose to leave it out in the main page. Kosack (talk) 15:43, 23 February 2019 (UTC) Query - There seemed to be another football club called Cardiff in this period, am I mistaken and is that relevant? I don't think there was anything significant about a club using Cardiff in their name, I think there may have been more than one other that used Cardiff in their name at some point previously. The major issue was the use of City after the City status was granted, which is what was protected by the relevant governing bodies. Kosack (talk) 15:43, 23 February 2019 (UTC) Perhaps changing "As a result" to "In recognition of this elevation in status", and "To combat this" to "To enhance their standing". Hzh (talk) 15:04, 23 February 2019 (UTC) - Done The two parts of the sentence With the club growing in stature, they were forced to turn down... do not appear to be logically linked, perhaps change to "Although growing in stature, the club was forced to turn down...". Hzh (talk) 15:12, 23 February 2019 (UTC) - Done The comma in ...in Cardiff and nearby towns, to gauge the level of... can be removed or replaced with "so as". Hzh (talk) 15:22, 23 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Second paragraph "a lack of facilities" sounds better than "the lack of facilities". - Done Last sentence of third paragraph is unnecessary since the league being suspended affected all clubs and therefore not specific to Cardiff, unless you want to say something related to the club. Hzh (talk) 21:59, 23 February 2019 (UTC) - Done 1920s success and later decline (1920–1945) Maybe link 1920–21 season. - Done Perhaps change at Wembley Stadium reaching their first ever FA Cup final to "at Wembley Stadium, having reached their first ever FA Cup final". - Done Perhaps change they had won promotion to "winning promotion", and append the start of the following sentence "finishing in 14th position" to the end of this. - Done Perhaps change entered a decline to "declined". - Done It's not clear when they had their record scoreline, but maybe split that sentence if the events referred to happened in different seasons. Add full stop after by a scoreline of 9–2, and change but after finishing to "They finished". If this is the same season, then keep it as a single sentence, but replace the start of the sentence with "During the 1932–33 season" and make other appropriate adjustments. Hzh (talk) 21:59, 23 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Penultimate sentence - replace replace with "replaced". Hzh (talk) 22:09, 23 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Post war and European competition (1945–2000) They were relegated after five seasons there in 1957, having struggled in the bottom half of the table during this period Consider rewriting this, since they were mid-table two seasons out of five (10th in the 1953–54 seasons, therefore not quite bottom half nor struggling), the wording suggests that they were struggling all five seasons. Perhaps move part of it to the previous sentence, e.g. "Cardiff returned to the top tier of English football for the first time in 23 years, and stayed there for five seasons. They were relegated in 1957, after struggling in the bottom half of the table for three seasons." Hzh (talk) 14:07, 24 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Maybe change again suffering relegation to "they were again relegated". Hzh (talk) 14:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Perhaps changing Cardiff began qualifying for European competition to "Cardiff participated in European competitions". Hzh (talk) 14:26, 24 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Stray space after ...advanced in European competition. Hzh (talk) 14:30, 24 February 2019 (UTC) - Removed ...in attempts to stabilize the team's performances. Consider finding another word or adding additional words since they wouldn't be trying to just stabilise, but also to improve if they were in the lowest division. "Stabilize" is US spelling? Hzh (talk) 14:37, 24 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Link 1995 final. Hzh (talk) 14:45, 24 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Foreign investment (2000–present) Maybe change ensure Cardiff returned to "ensure Cardiff's return". Hzh (talk) 16:41, 24 February 2019 (UTC) - Done The first sentence of the second paragraph seems superfluous or needs rewriting (Division One became Championship in 2004). - Done The "however" in however, Hammam agreed to a takeover may be unnecessary. Perhaps the whole sentence can be rewritten - e.g "The club experienced increasing financial difficulties over the next few years, and the Cardiff Council also refused to approve a new stadium plan due to concerns over its viability in 2006. Hammam then agreed to a takeover by a consortium led by new chairman Peter Ridsdale and the lead developer of the new stadium, Paul Guy." (You can probably rewrite it better.) - Rewritten Omit the accusation levelled against Hammam to keep it neutral. Hzh (talk) 16:41, 24 February 2019 (UTC) - Removed Need to clarify ownership as well as the club's chairman since Chan Tien Ghee had resigned, and why Vincent Tan was suddenly involved in firing manager. You can do it in this section, alternatively, you can create a new section on ownership and finance which you can see in other featured articles on football clubs - e.g. Manchester United F.C., Arsenal F.C., Liverpool F.C., etc. (Not all featured articles on football clubs have this section, but I think it will help). If necessary, you can move some of the content on the ownership in the History section there. Hzh (talk) 15:07, 25 February 2019 (UTC) I did consider an ownership section but outside the last two owners there would be very little meaningful content I believe and it would be massively slanted to recent events. The likes of United, Arsenal etc have much more available detail due to popularity of the club, I doubt I could provide a whole section to the same level of interest. Kosack (talk) 17:51, 25 February 2019 (UTC) It seems a bit confusing who the owners were - Hammam was one and Vincent Tan is the current owner, but was Peter Ridsdale an owner? Who owned Cardiff before Hammam? Hzh (talk) 19:13, 25 February 2019 (UTC) Ridsdale and Hammam's predecessor were elected chairman by the board as they did not own controlling stakes. Tan and Hammam were both majority shareholders so pretty much had absolute control. I've tried to explain this a little better in the text now. Kosack (talk) 20:20, 25 February 2019 (UTC) Omit the accusations against Malky Mackay (it's unnecessary and not important enough to be given in a summary, and it would sidestep any neutrality issue). Hzh (talk) 15:18, 25 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Reword However, Cardiff finished the 2016–17 season 12th after a good run of form, perhaps remove and append "and guided the club to 12th place finish in the 2016–17 season." (avoid having three "after" in a relatively short paragraph). Link 2016–17 season and 2017–18 season. Hzh (talk) 15:33, 25 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Support Change Cardiff is considered to have to "Cardiff has". - Done Maybe change major factor in fan support with the club's matches sometimes being considered as to "major factor in fan support, and some of the club's matches are considered to be" - Done The wording in a single season spell appears to be unnecessary because the season is mentioned later. Hzh (talk) 16:00, 25 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Maybe insert "as a celebratory gesture" into since its adoption in the early 1990s to indicate its purpose (which I assume is for celebration, but you can change the wording). - Done Maybe change ...performing the action during notable moments of their careers to "performing the action at some points in their careers (the reference for Nathan Cleverley suggests that he did it routinely). Hzh (talk) 13:28, 26 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Rivalry Comma after Known as the South Wales derby. - Done Maybe change The rivalry had enjoyed relatively friendly periods to "The rivalry had been relatively friendly". - Done Maybe change Severe violence at one fixture in 1993 saw the match dubbed "The Battle of Ninian Park" and lead to "One fixture in 1993 was dubbed "The Battle of Ninian Park" for its particularly severe violence, which led". Hzh (talk) 13:42, 26 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Maybe change "bubble trips" were introduced where away fans were only allowed to attend fixtures in police escorted convoys that travel to and from the stadium to ""bubble trips" were introduced for away fans who can only attend fixtures in police-escorted convoys to travel to and from the stadium". - Done The In turn, in the second paragraph is unnecessary. - Done The incidence with Lee Trundle and Alan Tate is not mentioned in South Wales derby, it can be copied or moved there instead. I'm a bit dubious about such details here. Hzh (talk) 21:25, 27 February 2019 (UTC) - Done The first part of the last sentence can be omitted, and saw the emergence of a hooligan group within the club's fanbase that became known as the Soul Crew may be rewritten as "In the 1980s, a hooligan group known as the Soul Crew emerged from within the club's fanbase." Hzh (talk) 21:41, 27 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Ninian Park Omit the comma after Due to the lack of facilities at the ground. - Done The ground was originally to be known as Sloper Park. It was instead named after Lord Ninian Crichton-Stuart, who was a driving force behind the ground's construction, and it became Ninian Park. The reference does not mention that it was originally intended to be named Sloper Park, so you need an additional reference. Perhaps change to "The original intention was to name the ground Sloper Park, but Ninian Park was chosen instead after Lord Ninian Crichton-Stuart, who was a driving force behind the ground's construction." - Done Maybe change Lord Crichton-Stuart performed the kick-off to "Lord Crichton-Stuart ceremoniously kicked off the game". - Done Rearrange A second was opened in 1928, which could hold 18,000 people, replacing an earth embankment as "A second, which replaced an earth embankment and can hold 18,000 people, was opened in 1928." - Done eventually replaced - "eventually" is unnecessary. Remove "increasing" in as increasing doubts mounted since using both "increasing" and "mounted" is tautological. Hzh (talk) 00:33, 28 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Cardiff City Stadium Need a source for the assertion The project required the rebuilding of the athletics stadium, the source given does not show that the rebuilding of the athletics stadium is a requirement. Hzh (talk) 02:39, 28 February 2019 (UTC) - Removed, I don't think it really adds anything Perhaps change This was a move which caused controversy among the rugby club's fans to "The move proved unpopular among fans of the rugby club, which returned to Cardiff Arms Park in 2012." Hzh (talk) 02:50, 28 February 2019 (UTC) - Done The ground was eventually named the "Cardiff City Stadium" - "eventually" can be omitted. - Done Move the rugby club ground share to somewhere after the stadium opened, and maybe reword On 20 September 2007 it was announced that the Cardiff Blues rugby union club would leave their Cardiff Arms Park home to become tenants of Cardiff City at the new Leckwith stadium. The move... as "When it opened, the Cardiff Blues rugby union club left their Cardiff Arms Park home to share the ground with Cardiff City at the new stadium. However, the move...". - Done Change In August 2014, expansion plans were completed, increasing the stadium capacity - need to introduce the expansion plans first, or rewrite the sentence with any appropriate references. Maybe change to "A few years after the stadium was built, plans to upgrade and expand the stadium were initiated. The expansion plans were completed in August 2014, and the seating capacity of the stadium was raised..." Hzh (talk) 12:41, 28 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Two "however" in two sentences in the last paragraph, one of them can be omitted, or rewrite. Hzh (talk) 12:51, 28 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Colours Rewrite The crest was changed to "appeal in 'international markets'", maybe as "These changes were made to "appeal in 'international markets'"". - Done Maybe change The change angered fans, who expressed their opposition in the news and on social media as well as directly to management. A number of protest marches and demonstrations were held to voice displeasure at the change. to "The rebranding provoked strong opposition among the fans, who organised protest marches and demonstrations to voice their displeasure at the changes." Hzh (talk) 13:26, 28 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Variations on this crest remained until the 1980s, when extra features... - wording might be interpreted as variations of the crest not being used in the 1980s, I'd suggest "Over the years, a number of variations of this crest have been used. In the 1980s, extra features...".Hzh (talk) 14:46, 28 February 2019 (UTC) - Done Going over the article one last time - The last two sentences of the second paragraph can be added to the first paragraph since they deal with the league, although I can see an issue with the repetition of the club being in the Premier League, so it's up to you whether you think it worth doing. I'm not sure which part you're referring to here, can you elaborate? Kosack (talk) 15:10, 1 March 2019 (UTC) It's the first two paragraphs of the lead. The first paragraph talks about being in the league, the last two sentences of the second paragraph are also about the league, seems like these two sentences could be moved to the end of the first paragraph. But, as I mentioned, repeating the same thing in the same paragraph (being in the Premier League in the 2018–19 season) does not sound good, so it's up to you whether to if you want to change this. Hzh (talk) 15:35, 1 March 2019 (UTC) I've moved the sentence where you suggested and rewordes a link to directly reference the reference the actual divisional season to hopefully provide more variety. Kosack (talk) 17:53, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Maybe change leading to the nickname to "which gives them the nickname". - Done Maybe change ...Ninian Park which was opened in 1910 and remained in use for 99 years before, in 2009, the club moved into the Cardiff City Stadium to "Ninian Park opened in 1910; it remained in use for 99 years until the club moved into the Cardiff City Stadium in 2009." - Done Maybe change Their first season saw them playing friendlies... to "In their first season, they played friendlies". - Done Add comma after elevation in status - Done Maybe change moving into Ninian Park in 1910 to "and moved into Ninian Park in 1910". - Done He set about adopting a more professional approach Just a query, when did Cardiff City become a professional club? It might be worth mentioning. 1910, i've added a brief mention to the text. Finishing in 14th position. Lower case for "finishing". - Done Change game. In the 74th minute, he to "game in the 74th minute. He", and change the full stop to a semi-colon after toward the goal - Done Change lined the streets to receive them to "lined the streets to welcome them". - Done Maybe change the club soon declined after their cup success and were relegated to "the club entered a period of decline after their cup success. They were relegated". - Done The "of the team" in ... after 22 years in charge of the team can be omitted. - Done Maybe change meaning Cardiff City were forced to apply for re-election after finishing bottom to "and Cardiff City were forced to apply for re-election after they finished bottom" - Done Maybe change ...since the return of the Football League, Cardiff finished the 1946–47 season as champions of the Third Division South under new manager Billy McCandless and... to "since the resumption of the Football League, under new manager Billy McCandless, Cardiff finished the 1946–47 season as champions of the Third Division South and..." - Done Maybe change one of the most famous victories... to "one of the most significant victories". (I'm a bit uncertain on this, some might consider the use of "famous" as WP:PEACOCK, but it could be OK here.) - Done Maybe change in 1996 finished in their lowest-ever league position to "they finished in their lowest-ever league position in 1996 ". - Done The "however" in However, after lengthy talks can be removed - two howevers in consecutive sentences, therefore either remove one or replace with another word. The sentence The club crest was redesigned, however, and the new design .. can be changed to "However, the club crest was redesigned; the new design" - Done Maybe change Hammam invested heavily in the team, funding the transfers of several new players that saw Lennie Lawrence guide Cardiff to promotion via a Second Division play-off triumph in 2003... to "Hammam funded the transfers of several new players to the club, and new manager Lennie Lawrence guided Cardiff to promotion when they won the Second Division play-off in 2003 ". Hzh (talk) 13:57, 1 March 2019 (UTC) - Done I've amended all of the comments listed above bar the first, which I could do with some clarification on, cheers. Kosack (talk) 15:17, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Maybe change Tan became to "Tan later became", and other directors, possessing around 82% of the club's shares to "other directors and acquired around 82% of the club's shares".- Done Maybe change The following year, the club appointed Malky Mackay to "In 2011, the club appointed Malky Mackay" (clarify year since a sentence has been added before that). - Done Change for the first time after 52 years - omit "after 52 years" or rewrite since the Premier League has not existed for that long, perhaps "for the first time, 52 years since they were last in the top tier of English football." Hzh (talk) 15:35, 1 March 2019 (UTC) - Done Maybe change two wins from 11 games and guided the side to 12th after a good run of form to " two wins from 11 games, and guided the side to a 12th-place finish after a good run of form." - Done ...change to red shirts between 2012 and 2015—some supporters being perceived as fairweather fans maybe change the dash to comma? The interpretation of the fans who stayed away because of strip colour change being "fairweather" is odd even if it is in the source, surely it's only hardcore supporters who care about the tradition to object to the colour change? Or add price of the season ticket which is also in the source, and the success of club or lack of it thereof. Hzh (talk) 15:35, 1 March 2019 (UTC) The fairweather is referring to the general attendance rather than anything to do with the colour change. Kosack (talk) 17:44, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Maybe change ...all performing the action to "all having performed the action". - Done Maybe change ...with the two sides having played each other over 100 times in all competitions to "and over 100 games have been played in all competitions between the two sides". Change ...lead to numerous violent clashes to "led to numerous violent clashes". - Done Maybe change ...and led to away fans being banned to "and resulted in away fans being banned". Hzh (talk) 19:59, 1 March 2019 (UTC) - Done Maybe change ...to keep the remaining standing areas of the ground open, as clubs at Championship level or above were given three years to redevelop their grounds to remove them to "to keep the remaining standing areas of the ground open beyond the three-year period given to clubs at Championship level or above to remove them". Hzh (talk) 19:59, 1 March 2019 (UTC) - Done Maybe change ... played at the ground saw Cardiff record a 4–0 victory over Scunthorpe United on 8 August 2009, the opening day of the 2009–10 season to "played at the ground was on 8 August 2009, the opening day of the 2009–10 season, and Cardiff won 4–0 over Scunthorpe United". - Done Maybe change ... 'international markets'" and was part of a "major investment plan" to " 'international markets'" as part of a "major investment plan"". - Done Maybe change ...shirts were featureless to "shirts were plain and unadorned". An additional reference is needed for the changes in the crest section, which is probably the one in the Kit manufacturers and shirt sponsors section. - Done Add a reference at the end of the Academy section. - Done That's more or less it I think. Good job. Hzh (talk) 19:59, 1 March 2019 (UTC) One last thing I missed - add a reference or two for the section on the staff. Maybe one for the manager list as well. Hzh (talk) 20:33, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Both sections do have references on the headings, the blue background blends in with them a bit. Kosack (talk) 22:11, 1 March 2019 (UTC) Interesting. I think the references should automatically appear in a lighter colour when the background is darker. Something must have gone wrong with the table which is out of our control. Hzh (talk) 23:20, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

• Support I'm satisfied that the article is good enough to meet the FA criteria. Hzh (talk) 03:30, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your thorough review, much appreciated. Kosack (talk) 09:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Comments by Lee Vilenski

I had a look through the article, and it looks very good. Could I have a little explination on "The team's longest period in the top tier of English football came between 1921 and 1929. Since then, they have spent a total of nine seasons in the top flight, the most recent being in the current 2018–19 Premier League season." in the lede. Could this not comment that the team were in the top flight for (presumably) 18 years, and had this run as well? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:27, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

@Lee Vilenski: Perhaps a reword to "The club has spent 17 seasons in the top tier of English football since, the longest period being between 1921 and 1929. The team's most recent season in the top flight is the current 2018–19 Premier League season." Thoughts? Kosack (talk) 15:37, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, that would be better. It's a little confusing otherwise. I'll scan the rest of the article in a bit. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:17, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Changed that over. Look forward to any comments. Kosack (talk) 19:59, 13 March 2019 (UTC)

Support - I can't see too much else that would cause me any concern. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Sources review

• Quality and reliability

• I did the source review at the previous archived FAC. I raised questions about the quality/reliability of several sources, but concluded that I was "happy to accept the opinions of other editors with more expertise in football articles than mine, as to the reliability of these sources. If they don't object, I won't." Same applies now. The sources in question were:

• English Football League Tables
• Welsh Football Data Archive
• Historic Football Kits
• 11 v 11

• To these I will add: The Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation

• Source links

• All working per the external links checker tool

• Formatting

• Ref 39: The Independent should be linked on earliest mention (it is linked in ref 69)
• Ref 62 missing publisher location: Also, ISBN should be in the consistent format used in the bibliography
• Ref 72 missing retrieval date
• Ref 76: "cricketarchive.co.uk" is not the publisher, it's what has been published. You could use "work=" and add "publisher= Cricinfo"
• Ref 104: missing publisher details

Subject to the above, sources look in good order. Brianboulton (talk) 21:52, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

@Brianboulton: Thanks, I've fixed the issues you found above. Just to clarify the extra source, the Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation (RSSSF) is widely accepted as a reliable source and is used extensively. The organisation's charter provides a clearer overview of the website's information process. Kosack (talk) 08:18, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Coord notes

Looks pretty close but a couple of things:

• I'd expect to see the content under Manager history cited; likewise Backroom staff, unless the citations at the top of the Players section are supposed to cover that too.

@Ian Rose: There were sources on the table headings but the blue of the table was making them difficult to see. I've moved them under each table now to make them clearer. Kosack (talk) 06:52, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

• As this would be the nominator's first FA if this is successful, unless I missed something above, I'd like to see a spotcheck of sources for accurate use and avoidance of plagiarism and close paraphrasing -- you can request at the top of WT:FAC, or perhaps one of the earlier reviewers would like to take care of it.

Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 05:29, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

The information and sources look fine to me, and I checked a good number of the sources I can accessed when I first went through the article. Earwig's Copyvio Detector did not show anything suspicious - one is a copy of an old revision of this article, another is the source of a a quote, the others also appear to be OK, although I did adjusted a sentence to remove a part that was copied. Hzh (talk) 14:42, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

@Hzh: Thanks for partaking in the review process! Normally for a spot-check (unless I'm quite familiar with the reviewer and their methods) I would expect an enumerated list of text–source comparisons. For example, "I checked this passage against this source" and whether it passed verification. Can you provide a list of which passages you checked, against which sources? --Laser brain (talk) 16:45, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

If this is what you are interested in, then you'll have to disregard my reply on copyvio check. I went over the entire article sentence by sentence (twice), checking against the sources where necessary, which took a week. I'm afraid I do not have the time to do it again. Doing that here means writing a reply that's greater than the size of the article for the sources I checked, and it would be better to have someone else looking at it afresh. There are a number of tools you can use for checking, for example Earwig's Copyvio Detector which does pretty much what you wanted. Hzh (talk) 10:54, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

That's fine, Hzh, we don't doubt you've put in the effort. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:58, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 13:02, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.