Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 February 18

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February 18[edit]

Porn sites[edit]

Are links to porn sites that contain XXX images and sell adult vidoes and require age verification allowed in articles? AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 01:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

This is a serious question btw...I'm coming across many articles that contain links to hardcore porn and trying to remove them ends up with people upset at me. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 01:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Rationales for linking (and not linking) are at WP:EL. The direct answer to your question is "it depends". For specific cases, you might want to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Pornography. -- Rick Block (talk) 02:01, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Ok, edits like this [1] is what I'm trying to deal with today. I'm getting a little frustrated. AgnosticPreachersKid (talk) 02:07, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Many of those are also blogs and personal web-sites that are not generally allowed under policy. Also of related note, Wikipedia is not censored and may contain content that some find offensive or objectionable.
Can you elaborate on what pages that you find content that is offensive in terms of hardcore pornography? In general, if the links are there only to advertise a web-site and do not relate to the article in itself, it can be removed. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 05:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
It's not acceptable. As a 13 year old who often clicks external links I would get into a lot of trouble if my Mum saw my browsing history. It shouldn't cause outrage as Wikipedia is not a gateway to porn and anybody who is stupid enough to think so will not be intelligent enough to protest. Thanks, George D. Watson (Dendodge).TalkHelp and assistance 14:51, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I would tend to agree, because I am in the same position myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RJRocket53 (talkcontribs) 01:12, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
If you are looking at a porn article (which you shouldn't be at 13), then you should know that external links will likely be porn related. TJ Spyke 05:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Personal pages[edit]

What's the difference between a celebrity that is more known than me, a local legend ? If I wait until someone writes a wikipedia page on me, it might taken 20 years, and it might be wrong. If I write it, it will be accurate. And yes, I can make it unbiased, and only basic enough to be certifiable.
If a moderator decides "I don't know who this person is" and deletes it, is that fair? If I Google myself and get 60 responses, and someone who was already featured in WP has 2000 responses, then does that make them more worthy of not having their page deleted?
If it does get deleted, and I put it up again with some additions or modifications, could that get me blacklisted or banned ?
Thanks DaveDodgy (talk) 03:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

See WP:BIO for our biography guidelines. If you are not notable enough for Wikipedia yet, you can always start your biography on WikiBios, which accepts biographies about any human. (I'm not sure if they restrict it to humans.) Also, we refer to administrators on Wikipedia rather than moderators, although you have the basic idea about how they work. --Teratornis (talk) 03:51, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
An admin is not supposed to delete an article because they “don’t know who this person is.” Rather they remove it because it because it does not assert the notability of the person, because it does not back up the assertion of notability with references to reliable independent sources, because it is written like a PR piece rather than an encyclopedia article, or because it is plagiarized for a copyrighted source. --—teb728 t c 04:26, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
They probably aren't supposed to, but some admins do apparently say I wouldn't know him from a hole in the ground. (I guess it's easier to laugh when it's someone else's article getting deleted.) --Teratornis (talk) 04:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
In answer to your question, recreating a deleted article won’t get you blocked, but the article might be deleted sooner if it doesn’t seem to be improved. If you recreate it multiple times, the title would be protected to prevent recreation. —teb728 t c 05:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
You're misinterpreting Wikipedia:I wouldn't know him from a hole in the ground to be equivalent to WP:IDONTKNOWIT, which it's not at all. What the page says is that even after reading about the subject in the article, "I wouldn't know him from a hole in the ground;" i.e., the article doesn't assert any significance/importance by citation to reliable sources, and thus meets CSD A7. (talk) 13:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Actually, repeatedly recreating a deleted article may get you blocked, but probably only after someone's tried to talk to you about it and you keep doing it without responding to them. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 21:54, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguate on a re-directed article[edit]

Case in point:
The Kings Royal (band) needs a disambiguation link on The Kings Royal
The Kings Royal is re-directed to Eldora Speedway
Put disambiguation link on The Kings Royal or on Eldora Speedway?
Duckweb (talk) 06:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I did much shuffling here. I think it's in good shape now. Kings Royal and The Kings Royal (band) redirect to The Kings Royal (and that hatnotes out to the dab and the race), King's Royal and The King's Royal redirect to Eldora Speedway (which hatnotes out to the dab), and the dab is now at King's Royal (disambiguation). -- JHunterJ (talk) 14:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Google image search[edit]

Hi. Why doesn't Google seem to index Wikipedia images? These searches should get dozens of results, but don't:

Compare with:

(It's probably in an faq somewhere, but I can't find it.) Thanks. -- Quiddity (talk) 07:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Comparing the Results info, it appears that Google doesn't support searching websites for images like that

Results 1 - 10 of about 7,110 from for scooter. (0.22 seconds)

for a normal web search, compared to

Results 1 - 7 of 7 for scooter (0.01 seconds)

Mr.Z-man 07:31, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. Any idea how to restrict the results to only images that come from our domain? The majority of those results are unrelated to our domain, or the subject matter. Using their advanced search gives this string, which still doesn't work:
Thanks :) -- Quiddity (talk) 07:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I just did my search using the domain, instead of the more general version. I got largely the same results, however I think I know what the problem is. You're finding images from all over the web because people all over the web are using images that were originally uploaded to Wikipedia. Clicking through all of my results, the images are all from our domain, even if the site using them is unrelated. It just turns out that the text of the site displaying the image is getting a higher hit rate than the original image description page here. Unfortunately, I can't find any way to restrict the images further. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

fairly used metalworking center lathe machine.[edit]

i am interested in purchasing a fairly used metalworking lathe machine in the uk, pls give me the companies addresses. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:51, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. Vivio TestarossaTalk Who 09:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Understanding "ATP"[edit]

What is Tennis ATP rankings? What is Tennis ATP race? How does it work? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. Vivio TestarossaTalk Who 09:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
See ATP Entry Ranking and ATP Race. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

original registration number[edit]


                     REGARDS PERCY F W FEAR86.140.104.13 (talk) 10:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. Stifle (talk) 11:26, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
I have located a Ford tractors discussion forum which I thought might be of some use to you. By the way, you may not be aware of it but typing in all caps on the internet is, by long standing convention, seen as shouting. Best of luck.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:05, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


I WANT TO KNOW THE WORKING OF ELCB(EARTH LEAKAGE CIRCUIT BREAKER) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pandeyanant9999 (talkcontribs) 11:04, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Check out Residual-current device. Stifle (talk) 11:25, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Did you read ELCB which redirects to Earth leakage circuit breaker? Sbowers3 (talk) 15:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Big Brother 9 page STILL unverifiable[edit]

I took all the routes given to me regarding the Big Brother 9 page, but once again those in CONTROL of the page, essentially ownership, win and continue to post unverifiable information. I dont care if the information are spoilers anymore, really, but live feeds are NOT verifiable sources and they don't seem to get this. What can I do now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by RMThompson (talkcontribs) 13:48, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, as we've been telling you on the articles talk page (where this discussion belongs), consensus overrules your opinion on the content. Until the consensus changes, this isn't going to help anything. - Rjd0060 (talk) 16:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Consensus on an article's talk page doesn't over-ride the underlying principles of Wikipedia, including verifiability! At this point, it looks like RMThompson may have to file a notice with the appropriate noticeboard. --Orange Mike | Talk 18:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
The information added can be easily verified, and the only problem I see is that people sometimes aren't adding reference links at the time of adding the content. - Rjd0060 (talk) 01:52, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

how to arrange images side by side in a page[edit]

I tried arranging three images side by side in a page after the content, I was not successful in doing so i want the procedure for doing so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kalivd (talkcontribs) 14:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

You might want to use a WP:Gallery tag. Algebraist 15:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Seeing who wrote a particular sentence in an article[edit]

I'm familiar with the history and with the diff feature, but I'm looking for something slightly different. There's an article where I am slightly suspicious of a claim and would like to try to figure out who and when put it in to ask them what it's about. Any trick or tool to do this? I know we can slap on fact tags etc, but an informal discussion with whoever put it in would be the best solution here, but I can't wade through oodles of prior versions to zero in on it manually.

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Martinp (talkcontribs) 15:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

What I do is an approximation of a Binary search. Let's say there are 1,000 edits. Go back about halfway, to about the 500th edit. Is the sentence there? If so, then go back further to about the 250th edit; if not, then go further forward to about the 750th edit. Each time you divide in half - it's either in the first half or the second half. For an article with 1000 edits, it would take at most 10 tries to narrow down to the specific diff that added that sentence. If you tell us the article, I'll be more specific. Sbowers3 (talk) 15:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
It was on Max Keeping. Your suggestion is a good one, but still somewhat time consuming. I've instead asked on the article talk page. Martinp (talk) 16:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
If you can't find it on WikiBlame let me know the sentence and I will find it for you. Sbowers3 (talk) 17:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
You might have luck with WikiBlame, which searches for given text in revisions of an article. --Teratornis (talk) 16:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Cancelling an account[edit]

Hi there. Would you please be able to give me information as to how I may cancel the account Keith1234? Best wishes, and thank you for the good service. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keith1234 (talkcontribs) 15:56, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Due to the fact that Wikipedia content is licensed under the GFDL, all edits must be kept for attribution purposes, and so your account cannot be deleted. You do, however, have the right to vanish, which you can exercise by (1) requesting your user page (found at Special:Mypage) and/or user talk page (found at Special:Mytalk) be deleted, by adding the {{db-userreq}} template to them; (2) requesting to change your username to something that is unconnected with you (possibly a random collection of letters and numbers); (3) never logging in to your account again. If you do this, you are still free to register a new username if you wish to continue editing Wikipedia.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Template Problems[edit]

I am trying to figure out why Kent State's template is not showing up at all and why the Rutgers template shows up but without the collapsable "show" on the right... the others for some reason show up correctly.. this problem is beyond my area of expertise. Thank you for your time and help. For the issue at hand see Gary Waters.--Josh (talk) 17:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Problem fixed by User:Soxred93 --Josh (talk) 17:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Help with userpage[edit]

Click to Leave A Message.png

I am trying to put that in my userpage, but it links to the image itself, not the new sections of my talk page. Is there a way to disable linking to the image? Thanks, RJRocket53 (talk) 18:15, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Try this:
|image  = Click to Leave A Message.png
|width  = 300 px
|link   =
|desc   = none
--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 18:30, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
That doesn't work, when I click the link, it comes up with a "This page doesn't exist" page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RJRocket53 (talkcontribs) 18:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
It seems that the {{click}} template only supports internal wikilinks, not the sort of link that's required for editing a page. I thought I could fix this by using the ImageMap extension directly, but it seems to have the same limitation. If this is so, it might not be possible to link it in the way you want. • Anakin (talk) 19:10, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
You're right, damn, thought I had it. I just tried a couple of work arounds without luck. Sorry.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:24, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
That's OK, I just put a regular link. "Click here to leave a message" —Preceding unsigned comment added by RJRocket53 (talkcontribs) 19:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Okay I think I have it now, try this:

Click to Leave A Message.png--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 19:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't work on my browser. However, a bug with ampersands in external links in imagemaps was fixed recently; when the change goes live (within a few days, hopefully), maybe one of your earlier tries will work. --ais523 20:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Fuhghettaboutit's version works (more or less) if you move the last </div> to be after the image. Algebraist 20:07, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
For now I'll use
Red phone.jpg Click here to leave a message...

RJRocket53 (talk) 01:46, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

What about this: (talk) 10:05, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Quotation marks around title[edit]

I created three redirect pages to the History of Pennsylvania State University, and two of the three redirects ended up with unintended quotation marks around the titles. Any thoughts on how that happened, so I can avoid that mistake in the future, and how I might change the present titles of "Pennsylvania State College" and "Farmers' High School of Pennsylvania"? --Pat (talk) 18:33, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Probably, when you searched for those subject lines, you put the quotation marks in the search box (not useful in Wikipedia search). When you found that there was no such article, you created a new article with the quotation marks intact! I've moved these to better places now. --Orange Mike | Talk 18:38, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

uncertain how to report abuse[edit]

Hi, I apologize for sending this to you if you're the wrong forum...I have reported small instances of content abuse in the past but could not navigate the directions this time. I'm not a member and don't feel up to tagging people as vandals or getting into switching content myself, but would like to pass along that the "George Washington" page has had "Early Life" changed to "Sex Life," with the witticism, "YO YOUR GAY" added at the top. Was hoping somebody might be able to help clean that up. Thanks, and sorry again if I've missed how to handle this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hedgehog3 (talkcontribs) 18:48, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I had a look through the history of that page, and couldn't find the specific instance of vandalism you're referring to, although it seems to have been reverted now. I have also purged the page to make sure it has been rebuilt from cache. It should be fixed now, although if you're still seeing the vandalized version, have a look at Wikipedia:Bypass your cache to make sure you're seeing the latest version of the article. Hope this helps. • Anakin (talk) 18:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Logging in[edit]

Okay, so when I type in, then click English, it takes me to the main page. The top of the page says "Log In / Create Account". But if I type something into the search box, like "WT:RFA" or anything else, that page will load and I will be logged in. Is this a new "feature" or should I change something so that my login credentials will show on the main page? I just can't get it to show that I'm logged in at the main page. If I wanted to edit the page, I couldn't because I'm not "logged in". Useight (talk) 19:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

P.S. - Apparently others have been having this problem as well. Useight (talk) 19:45, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
P.P.S. - I'm using Windows XP Pro and browsing with IE6. Useight (talk) 19:46, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
It sounds like the initial Main Page that you see might be being cached in some way, so that even though you're logged in it's not showing it. Next time this happens try the instructions at Wikipedia:Bypass your cache (normally by pressing Ctrl + F5) to reload the page, to see if that shows you logged in. I have heard of some strange login problems lately though. • Anakin (talk) 19:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
Hey Anakin, yeah as you may have guessed, it's a global problem. We've (many of us) detailed the symptoms and published our work-arounds. Lots of chatter from many of us but as of this time stamp it seems that the folks who can fix it aren't around right now! -- hydnjo talk 20:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Also see: Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Being logged out, Wikipedia:Village pump (assistance)#Wikipedia keeps logging me out after restarting browser, Wikipedia:Help desk#Logging in, Wikipedia:Help desk#Interesting log in problem, Wikipedia:Help desk#Logging out everytime I close my Browser, Wikipedia:Help desk#Frequent Logouts and more I'm sure. --hydnjo talk 20:26, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

comment request templates[edit]

i need help properly placing the requested comments templates here. At [Talk:Potrero Hills]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomgaylove (talkcontribs) 20:57, 18 February 2008 (UTC)


Doubtless this is a very simple question, but I don't have the technical knowhow to deal with it. How do I write the letter yogh when quoting Middle English text? It isn't included in my character map, and if I cut and paste it from Middle English texts elsewhere on the Web I just get a square instead. Is Unicode the answer, and if so how do I use Unicode? Antiquary (talk) 21:28, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Write the uppercase letters and lowercase letters as {{latinx|&#x021C;}} and {{latinx|&#x021D;}} respectively; this produces Ȝ and ȝ. The {{latinx}} template is a workaround for Internet Explorer's handling of Unicode, and doesn't affect other browsers. (I got the hexadecimal codes required from the article for the letter.) --ais523 21:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
And to answer in more general terms: Unicode is a set of characters extended beyond what most traditional character sets supported. To use it in an article, you can either copy-and-paste the required character from somewhere, or write a hexadecimal (or in some cases named) code between an ampersand and semicolon. In both cases a fix is usually needed for the display to work in Internet Explorer 6 (and maybe 7, I don't know), and the exact template needed depends on which character you used (normally {{unicode}}, although apparently not in this case). (The edit view will appear incorrectly in IE6 if the first method is used, even with a font correction template.) The correct hexidecimal code is ampersand, hash, x, then some hexadecimal (which is normally listed in the article about the character), then a semicolon. Hope that helps! --ais523 21:40, 18 February 2008 (UTC)