# Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2007 March 24

Computing desk
< March 23 << Feb | March | Apr >> March 25 >
Welcome to the Wikipedia Computing Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

# March 24

## System Restore

How do I move my computer back to when I got it, using system restore, then, erase all other system restore dates? -68.193.147.179 00:19, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

It all depends on what type of set-up you have. Most manufactures provide a "restore to factory settings" option which brings your computer back to the way it was when you got it. I think the System Restore you are referring to is the one built into XP. This does to provide a complete restore of a computer - It is more of a internal windows restore. Let me explain - Using system restore will restore all previous windows settings (such as the screen resolution)and user settings (such as your wallpaper). It does not even touch your personal data. It also either restores or removes all .exe files - I think this is an attempt to remove possible viruses that may have caused your computer to have to be restored in the first place.

If you really want to restore it to the condition when you got it (which means losing everything you've done since), you could also format the hard drive and reinstall the O/S (from CD) and then any other apps that came with it (from CD). This is rather drastic, but might be in order if it's really messed up badly. If you bought it recently, the seller might even be willing to do this for you. StuRat 15:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

## not-for-mail

What is the function of not-for-mail in the localpart of an e-mail address or at the end of a Return-Path field in an e-mail header? Is it possible to have an actual e-mail address with a localpart of not-for-mail and receive messages at it? NeonMerlin 00:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but I sometimes get e-mail from companies that say "don't reply to this address". It seems odd to me that they would want to use different addresses for sending and receiving e-mails, but, for whatever reason, they do. StuRat 15:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I am wondering this too! --Paracit 15:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Probably some form of user-agent sniffing. --TotoBaggins 16:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

it could be user-agent sniffing, but many download managers allow you to modify your user-agent, and would easily be able to work around this problem. they could also be checking the HTTP referer value to ensure that you actually came from their site. they also might be setting cookies, or using one or more of plenty of other methods. a quick search brought me to a site called http://www.rapget.com/ which seems to offer a product that will download from rapidshare and similar sites, but i've never used it and can't vouch for its safety. --64.0.112.13 09:04, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

## Connecting to a server on your own computer?

How do you connect to a server on your own computer, ie what IP address would you use to connect w/ it?

That depends on whether or not you are using a router or whether you are connected directly to the internet. You can find your IP address with a site like whatismyipaddress.com. If you don't have a router, that's the IP address you need. If you do have a router, that's still the IP address you need, but you also need to set up your router to forward the desired port or ports to your computer (such as port 80 for HTTP). --Allen 03:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I think you misread the question. The questioner is trying to connect to a server on the same machine as the client. In that case, use localhost or 127.0.0.1. Splintercellguy 04:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that makes more sense; thanks. Having recently learned how to access a server on my own computer remotely, I was in man-with-a-hammer mode. --Allen 04:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

hello, just need some help with my new ADSL connection. I have 3 PC's and wish for all off them to be connected to the internet. What is the best way to do this? I was thinking of getting a LAN Adsl Modem and connecting it to a network switch. Then setup up all the computers to network through the switch. Would this automatically connect them to the internet? Also what would you recommend to be built into the modem? - a firewall or router. Oh and since im at it - would anyone know of any good data encryption software? THANKS FOR ANY HELP

The best thing to do is to get a router. With minimal tweaking all computers hooked up to the router will get Internet. I'm not sure about your second question; what do you mean by "built"? As for data encryption, TrueCrypt is good. Splintercellguy 04:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Just get a router and a modem. You don't need anything else. Routers act like a firewall for the most part. If you want it really secure, you'd get a *nix machine with two network cards as a firewall, a router after that, then the router is connected to the other 3 computers. But a router is plenty to most people. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 05:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
If you only have 3 machines, just get a 4 port broadband router with an ADSL modem built in. In the UK at least, there's no shortage of places to buy them. I've had mine for about 4 years, and as I've added more machines to the network I've since added an 8 port switch as well as a wireless access point. The 4 port ADSL modem/router only cost me £60 and you get can them now for under £40 I think. Johnnykimble 10:53, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Just wanted to add that some service providers have an option to give you a modem with 4 ports for other computers - just in case that's the solution you're looking for. That way your modem and router are built into eachother. Rfwoolf 11:49, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

## Java Question

Does anyone know the Java command for generating sound with frequency and amplitude parameters? --Russoc4 05:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

This page covers creating sounds in some detail. It appears you have to do it yourself, as there's no simple `createSound(withFreq, withAmplitude)` call. --TotoBaggins 16:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
This just might be what I'm looking for. Thanks! --Russoc4 21:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I've also found this class: http://www.jsresources.org/examples/OscillatorPlayer.html

## What's the point of invisible spam?

I contribute somewhat frequently to Achewiki, which concerns the webcomic Achewood, and it is contantly deluged with spam that only shows up in editing. Reading the communication of other people about other wikis shows the same problem. So I'm curious if anyone knowledgable in the ways of spam can tell me why this is done? I can see how regular spam might hook the occasional "newbie" (hmm, loans? Why not?) but what sort of effect is spam that can't even be seen except in the form of "look at me, I'm spam!" supposed to have? Or is this phenomenon just spambots gone haywire, incorrectly following instructions to post things visibly? ${\displaystyle \sim }$ Lenoxus " * " 05:09, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Invisible spam text will be noticed by web spiders, but not to a casual observer. Splintercellguy 06:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
See mw:Manual:\$wgSpamRegex#CSS Hidden Spam on the MediaWiki site. --h2g2bob 21:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I guess that explains it. Thanks, responders. ${\displaystyle \sim }$ Lenoxus " * " 10:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

## Unreal Tournament 2004 Mutator

I used to have this great mutator that let you tweak the exact amounts of damage, ROF, and ammo of each weapon, and even let you customize the action for primary and secondary fire. Does anyone know the name of this mutator? --⁪frotht 06:27, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

found it, it's WeaponStuff. --⁪frotht 06:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, so if I get a adsl modem then connect it to a router, will I be able to network my computers together through it (the router) in the same way I would be able to with a network switch? SO if the connection to the router is the only connection i have will i be able to access files from computer A on computer B (or even C?). Can the router function without a internet connection? If not then what type of set-up would you recommend to achieve this?

And just from curiosity; with the *nix machine - what software would you recommend to run on it (OS and software)?

## Passively Cooled Single-slot AGP Graphics Cards

For the past couple of months I've shunned my AGP GeForce 6600 GT for an ancient GeForce 2 MX 400. The GF2 is pretty much inadequate for anything 3D these days, but it hasn't bothered me that much because the GF2 is totally silent, having only a heatsink and no fan.

The problem now is that I want something more permanent, so that I can run 3D applications and play games, without having to switch cards. I need a card that is passively cooled, AGP, and at least on a par with the 6600GT.

There is however an added problem, and that is that I have a Shuttle SN85G, so another requirement is that the card should not take up more than one slot in size.

Does anyone know a card that satisfies these requirements?

Thanks, Johnnykimble 12:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

There are, or at least there were some passively cooled 6600 GT's using various stuff like heat pipes and giant heatsinks, not sure if you can find one now with AGP though... --antilivedT | C | G 21:03, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

## Excel help?

If there's any Excel experts out there, I'd be grateful for some advice. I've got a spreadsheet with two worksheets, one for monthly expenses and one for yearly expenses. Both have five columns: "Expense type", "Provider", "Estimated cost" [this is per mth in the first, per yr in the second], "Yearly cost", "Monthly cost". The latter two columns are calculated from the third.

What I am trying to achieve is to create a third worksheet as an aggregate of these two: displaying "Expense type", "Provider", "Yearly cost" and "Monthly cost". I'd like it such that it will automatically update if I change costs, or add new expenses (i.e. new rows), and such that I can manage it as a list (eg to sort expenses alphabetically, or by the highest cost). [I've defined lists for these first two worksheets to achieve this].

I'm not sure this is possible, just by manually creating a sheet with formulae (I can't see how I could do it other than manually adding a reference for each cell, which isn't exactly efficient, and would prevent automatic inclusion of future rows). I'm thinking Pivot tables may be the answer, but they seem best for summarizing things (I don't need to summarize anything, I just want the data combined as is). I know this must be possible, and I'm not looking for anyone to do it for me... just some pointers as to how I should go about it (and then hopefully Google can help me out). Grateful for any advice... UkPaolo/talk 12:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, a slow and inflexible way to do it would be with VBScript, where a script would run through and populate Worksheet3 every time you told it to. But it would be slow.
A flexible way would be to do it with just references; you'd have to make sure it updated to the last row each time (or you could a script to do that for you), but otherwise it is pretty easy. But I don't think you'd be able to sort it. --24.147.86.187 12:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Okay here's a thought, are you capable of doing it in Access? Even if you were, I suppose there would still be some major obsticles in doing what you want to do. Anyways, if that's not possible and you still want to do it in Excel, then I'm afraid the only thing I can tell you is, that, you do know that you can 'sort' data in Excel by clicking on Data -> Sort. This overcomes the problem that you can only otherwise sort a single column in Excel at a time, which would go into ascending order, and completely ignore the other columns - and this may help you if you want to do dynamic referencing. The problem is that you want to RELATE data together, which is what you're supposed to use a database program for (e.g. Access). The only way you're going to get a third worksheet to take a row in worksheet #1, find that same entry in worksheet #2 that may be in an entirely different row, and then process all this information - is if you make ONE worksheet persistent (not dynamic, where the data is hardcoded) and the other worksheets DYNAMIC (where the values are referred from values in worksheet 1).

Not only would those worksheet 2 & 3 values have to be dynamic, but when they refer to worksheet 1 values they'd have to be capable of finding them in a given sorted list - which may in fact be possible. Why not look up Excel references in the help file, such as dynamic and persistent references.
Sorry I can't be much more of a help than that. Rfwoolf 16:05, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Create a pivot-table for the monthly data and yearly data on a third sheet. Reorganise the data how you require it and have sums pointing to the summarised data. You should be able to change the first 2 sheets and have the pivote 'refresh' to include any changes. This is a bit of a fiddle and not ideal but it will work. It might help you if you have an extra column called "cost period", this way you could simply have all the data (monthly and yearly) held in a single sheet (table) and run the pivot from the that. The pivot gives you huge flexibility to quickly change the way you summarise your data. ny156uk 16:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks very much guys, for all your advice. I'll look further into it! Cheers, UkPaolo/talk 11:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

## Better/easier FTP program than WS_FTP on Windows?

So I've been using WS_FTP95 for, dang, almost ten years now. However, I'm looking to upgrade. Do you have any recommendations for an easier FTP program for Windows that is freeware? I use it for basic FTP needs. Thanks, Guroadrunner 13:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Filezilla is what I use. →Ollie (talkcontribs) 14:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
i also use Filezilla, but i'd like to point out a favorite software site of mine: http://www.filehippo.com -- they maintain a relatively small list of, in my opinion, the very best software, much of it freeware. (under "file transfer" category on the front page they have two other clients, Core FTP LE and SmartFTP.) alternately, you could check out wikipedia's [Comparison_of_FTP_clients]. the reason i had to mention filehippo is because i feel the software they list on their site represents the best and safest stuff available, and it's where i always go first. --64.0.112.168 23:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I have HP Image zone and my pictures are crappy when I print them. I was looking for some advice before I purchase another program for editing and printing of my digital pictures. What do you think is the best program and what gives the clearest digital photo when printing them?24.47.13.118 14:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm no expert, but I believe that would depend more on the printer than on the program. Various programs can perform image correction and convert images to higher color depths, but I don't think any one can print the same image better than any other. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 16:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

One thing that helps, but which software rarely enforces, is to always print at integer scales. For example, if you have an image that's 1024x1280 pixels, you can print it at 1X as 1024x1280 dots, at 2X as 2048x2560 dots, etc., but don't print it as, say 2000x2500 dots, as that will result in some pixels being printed with 1 dot and others being printed with 4 dots (2x2). This can significantly degrade the final image. Also, a program that provides for interpolation between pixels will look much better than one which doesn't. Finally, be careful not to reduce the number of colors during edits and saves, say from 24-bit color to 256 colors. If color pics look horrid no matter what, try grayscale instead. They often look much better. StuRat 19:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Can you describe the resolution and color mapping of the pics your digicam provides ? Many digicams provide perfectly adequate quality for e-mails, but are completely inadequate for large prints. StuRat 19:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

## FORGOT WINDOWS XP USER ACCOUNT PASSWORD

I have forgotten my windows xp user account password.How can I login without the user account password?59.163.25.48 16:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

This may be obvious and this may not apply to you - If you can log in to another admin's account on the PC, you can go into Control Panel and into User Accounts and recreate your password Rfwoolf 16:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
There's a "backdoor" in XP which can be used if there's not an Administrator password set. Say you want to get into "Josh"'s account because "Josh" is the only admin on the PC, you would start up the PC and when it's on the "Windows XP" loading screen (beginning), turn the PC off by the main power. Then turn it on again and let the PC load. It should go onto Safe Mode. If it doesn't, try again until it does. When on the screen for safe mode, select "Start up Windows XP in Safe Mode". Now, continue and when given an option of who to login with, click Administrator. You can now go into Control Panel and into User Accounts and change your password.
This isn't a very conventional way to do things but it has worked for me in the past many a time :). JoshHolloway 18:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
And that is quite scary. I want to get Linux now.  :( 18:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Just set yourself an administrator password! Start in safe mode as above and instead of changing another admin's account, change the main Administrator password. Sorted and secure...to an extent. JoshHolloway 20:13, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
You don't need to turn your computer off while it's booting to get into safe mode. Just hit F8 just as Windows is starting up and it will give you a boot menu, with safe mode being one of the options. Philbert2.71828 23:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
If you do have an admin pass set, the standard way to break the security is to delete the `C:\Windows\System32\Config\sam` file. You can't be in Windows to do this, so instead, insert you Windows XP cd and restart. When the CD starts loading key an eye out for an option to load the Recovery Console. Once you're in that you should be at a DOS prompt. Type the following:
``` cp c:\windows\system32\config\sam c:\sam.bak
delete c:\windows\system32\config\sam
```
Now take the cd out and start windows. That should have removed the password, and possibly destroyed your accounts. So once you've logged in, you'll have to create your accounts again. It's been a while since I've done this, and I had no problems with it, however, before trying it, I'd wait for someone else to comment on this response who knows more about the procedure than I do. If you do get around to doing it, and find you'd rather be back where you started (with the unknown password), then go back to the Recovery Console and type:
``` cp C:\sam.bak C:\windows\system32\config\sam
```
And overwrite when it asks you to. Be very careful with this suggestion! Johnnykimble 19:12, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Offline NT Password & Registry Editor --Spoon! 08:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

## SMTP by hand

I'm trying to send an email by hand, just to try it out, and I had a little problem. Here is the transcript of our "converation" (I type italic, server is bold):
ryan:~ user\$ nc -vv smtp.google.com smtp (I open connection)
HELO mydomain
MAIL FROM: john@doe.com
250 2.1.0 john@doe.com... Sender ok
RCPT TO: (myemail)
550 5.7.1 (myemail)... Relaying denied
^C sent 72, rcvd 221

Why is it denying me? Me email address is a gmail. thanks!--Ryan 17:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know ... but this is an absolute longshot - perhaps it should be [username]@googlemail.com - if somehow that's what google does with gmail. Rfwoolf 17:14, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Two possibilities:

1. It doesn't like the sender domain "doe.com", but doesn't complain about it until the "rcpt to:" step, and even though it said it was okay during the "mail from:" transaction.
2. I always use angle brackets when doing raw SMTP, and my memory is that they're required:
`MAIL FROM: <john@doe.com>`
`RCPT TO: <barney@bed.rock>`

Steve Summit (talk) 17:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I put the angled brackets, but for the same result. IT didn't work! My Mail.app works perfectly with gmail still, O well.

It's correctly denying you because the server you are trying to use is not a gmail incoming server; instead, it's one of the servers for Google's email accounts (those ending on `@google.com`). Your Mail.app is most probably checking the MX record for `gmail.com` (as every MTA should), which points to the correct servers. --cesarb 17:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Eh, surely you need to login with your google username and password?? After a quick google search it looks like you should be using SSL, and port 465 for your connection. When you connect to the server on the standard SMTP port and do an `EHLO` instead of the standard `HELO`, you'll get the list of extensions. Notice `AUTH` is not one of them. I'd guess that connections on the standard port only work for local connections without authentication. So, try getting an SSL connection to the server on port 465 and going though the `AUTH/TLS` process. If you're unsure about what to do, the best source of info are the relevant RFC's, SMTP-AUTH and TLS. Sorry I can't be more help, but I haven't tried any of this... Johnnykimble 18:58, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
That's not his problem, he's trying to send email to his account, not from this account (which would usually need SMTP AUTH or pop-before-smtp). --cesarb 19:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
http://www.gammadyne.com/relaying_denied.htm --64.0.112.5 13:27, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The easiest way to answer these sorts of questions is to run a network tracing tool like Wireshark (formerly "Ethereal"), send some mail from your local mail client, and just watch the traffic. You might find open relay relevant to your specific problem. --TotoBaggins 23:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

## Australian hardware.

Can anyone suggest a few Australian hardware shops? I'm looking for a cheap HDD.

You can try your luck with ebay.com.au - a lot of the asian trade gets flighted there, where you can buy some really good deals (or bid for that matter) and the postage can be as little as say \$8. As for stores you can try all the normal nonsense like dicksmiths.com.au - but you won't be getting any special deals there. Rfwoolf 17:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Harris Technology is one.
I usually use [1], for no better reason than I've used them before so I know they're okay. FiggyBee 04:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

## Re-opening nc port

How can I tell nc (on mac os x tiger) to reopen a server it has started. My syntax us as follows:
nc -v -l -p 9999
but when I disconnect from the computer connected to it, nc closes! How do i tell it to reopen automatically? Thanks again to the wiki community.--Ryan 18:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Is the problem that when you connect (from elsewhere) to port 9999 and then disconnect, nc closes, or that when you log out of the computer/account/window where you started up your nc listener, nc closes? If the latter, try nohup. —Steve Summit (talk) 20:58, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Try `while true; do nc -v -l -p 9999; done`. --cesarb 22:04, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I tried, but all I got was a terminal windows that says ">". No computer can connect, not even my own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rgrasell (talkcontribs) 02:31, 25 March 2007
That means the shell is expecting more input. Either you are not using a Bourne shell and thus its syntax is different (does anyone know which is the default shell on MacOS X?), or you typed it wrong (which I do not think is what happened here). --cesarb 04:42, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Mac OS X uses bash. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rgrasell (talkcontribs) 06:58, 25 March 2007
cesarb's recipe is correct. I just tried it on my Mac (10.4.6), and it worked fine.
Did you type it just like this:
```while true; do nc -v -l -p 9999; done
```
Steve Summit (talk) 12:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
The only problem with cesarb's recipe (as I discovered after posting my previous message, when I went to clean up after my test) is that it's nearly impossible to quit from it! Here's a safer (and simpler) variant:
```while nc -v -l -p 9999; do :; done
```
Steve Summit (talk) 12:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Earlier versions of OS X used tcsh as the default shell. If the user didn't purchase a fairly recent Mac, they may be grandfathered into CSH syntax unless they change their default shell. -- mattb `@ 2007-03-25T22:53Z`

## Splitting an Image file.

Hello, I know my title makes no sense, so I'm going to explain. I have a large MP3 file which is the mix of some songs. I have an image file along with it that includes the cues for when the songs begin and end. Is there any way that using the information on the image file I can split the mp3 into several mp3 for each song. Thank you --(Aytakin) | Talk 20:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Foobar2000 can do that, but I've only done it with APE/FLAC/WAV files, so not sure if it will work with mp3's. --antilivedT | C | G 20:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
If you have Audacity (download here) and LAME, (download here) you can import, edit, and export mp3s. I have used both of these. They are free, safe (no viruses in 4 years!) and work very well....J.delanoy 15:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

## Internet settings on slave HDD?

Hello, on my computer I have 2 HDDs. One day I took out my slave drive and when I put it back in later I was not able to connect to the internet. I should mention that while my drive was out of my case, I didn't turn on my pc. Now after I put it back in, every time my pc tried to connect to the internet, the it wasn't able to. I tried everything, disabling my connection, reinstalling my network card, etc. Lastly I took out my slave drive and turned on my pc and I was connected to the internet. Then again I put the slave drive back in and now I was connected again. When I took out my slave drive at the beginning it was b/c i was using it in an external HDD case for a laptop. Now I'm guessing, when it was connected to the laptop some of its internet settings were changed and when it connected to my pc, it was still on its laptop settings. This makes no sense to me. Because as far as I know, my internet settings should not be on my slave drive where I have no windows files or installed any programs. But I may be wrong. Can anyone explain to me what happened? Thanks --(Aytakin) | Talk 20:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I obviously don't know your machine, but what's on those hard drives? Could it be that there are two OSes installed on both? Splintercellguy 21:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
On the second there is nothing except my music and videos. Nothing installed, no OS, nothing else. --(Aytakin) | Talk 21:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
It looks like a hardware problem. I've already seen that happen before; usually it's the network card which is a bit loose (it's easy to bump into it without noticing), and removing and replacing the card is enough to fix it. --cesarb 21:59, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

## mp3 Encoding What's better 160kb/s Simple Stereo or 192kb/s Joint Stereo?

Regarding MP3 encoding:

What's better 160kb/s Simple Stereo or 192kb/s Joint Stereo? Which is the better choice between the TWO ONLY in regards to sounds quality?

I had to skim through much of Joint Stereo: The Myths to get the answer. For almost all cases, even 160 kb/s joint stereo will produce better sound quality than 160 kb/s simple stereo, because what joint stereo really does is combine common aspects between the two stereo channels, which gives more bits to the parts that do differ, which means each channel ends up with more bitrates than, say, half the bitrate. For example, say you have 160kbps in simple stereo and each channel takes 80kbps. Joint stereo finds the parts that are the same, and let's just say that it only shares about 10kbps of bits that are the same. That means you have 150kbps for each channel, which gives each channel 75kbps independently. So each channel end up with 75kbps + 10kbps shared, or 85kbps, which is a 5kbps increase from simple stereo. Thus, the quality (except in an extreme case the article talks about) is better with join stereo. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 23:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)