Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2013 March 1

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March 1

Need help identifying old cartoon

I saw this cartoon a long time ago that had a couple of bears that lived in a national park. The big bear would get food by turning his face away from the camera and rubbing it with both hands, then when he'd turn around again he would have a different appearance, which would help him gain the sympathy of different types of people and they'd be persuaded to give him things.

Luckily I do have one photo of the cartoon: http://oi46.tinypic.com/4kwxs0.jpg (The sign says "do not feed the bears" by the way)

Can anyone help me with this? thanks 41.254.5.185 (talk) 02:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Windy & Breezy. Tevildo (talk) 20:41, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

And here's the cartoon: [1]. – Kerαunoςcopia^◁_galaxies 02:46, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Based on the timing, I wonder if Yogi Bear and Boo-Boo Bear were "inspired" by them. StuRat (talk) 03:18, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Media outlets and naming rights

See [2] for a recent example of companies buying naming rights to sports stadiums. Are media outlets such as TV companies and newspapers contractually obliged to refer to the stadiums by their official names? The BBC, for example, always refers to Arsenal's stadium as "The Emirates", so I am wondering if there is anything to stop them referring to it by its "real" name of Ashburton Grove if they wish to. --Viennese Waltz 06:31, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I wondered what you meant by the "real" name, so I checked the article, which says (my bolding):

• Ashburton Grove, known for sponsorship reasons as the Emirates Stadium or simply The Emirates, is an association football stadium located in Islington, North London, England.

That wording troubles me. It reads as if the name has been changed to Emirates, and sponsorship is the reason why. But this defeats the purpose of introducing it as "Ashburton Grove", because if it's been changed, then Ashburton Grove would be a defunct name. Maybe it should say "known for sponsorship purposes". -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 07:06, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

I think "officially known as" would be better. But I've given up raising issues on talk pages because no-one ever responds. --Viennese Waltz 07:13, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Speaking only from the U.S. and based only on my observations: I'm not certain that there is any penalty if they don't. I can recall sportscasters regularly calling Candlestick Park by its old name during the years when it was "Monster Park" or "3Com Park"; similarly O.co Coliseum is often called "Oakland Coliseum". Chris Berman notably still calls Qualcomm Stadium "The Murph" after it's old name of "Jack Murphy Stadium", so I have certainly heard sportscasters use former names for a stadium that was renamed, though most often they use the official name. It probably depends on how long the old name was around. A stadium known as one thing for 30 years then suddenly changing generates a lot of inertia. A stadium which only has a name for a year or two before it gets a new name, the old name is easy to forget. Just from my observations, the situation is different from the game broadcast than it is during the "studio show" banter. The in-game broadcast universally uses the official name. However, the analysis shows, which usually feature a panel of experts chatting extemporaneously; they more often will use the older, more familiar name. --Jayron32 07:11, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

A lot depends on what role the media is playing in the broadcast. If a media outlet is presenting the official live game broadcast, it may be contractually obligated to use the corporate sponsor name. However, if the attitude of the individual announcer does not accept that, the corporate mention may come only in the recorded messages at the beginning and end, and at breaks, with the announcer avoiding mention of any name. Media simply reporting on events have not paid a rights fee to the sport, so they have no obligation to use the corporate name. Whether they do or not is their choice. Rarely do they use an obsolete name (unless it is particularly historic). More often, they will write around it. [e.g., the Giants will host the Dodgers]. Lately the issue has been with new facilities that have had corporate sponsorshop since the day they opened, with no former traditional name to refer back to.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 13:49, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Right, because these new-fangled stadiums like Wrigley Field have no sense of tradition... --Jayron32 14:17, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Given that Wrigley Field was named after the man who owned the team[3] and wasn't the result of contractual commercial sponsorship, I don't think that's a good example of the kind of "naming rights" being discussed here. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 15:40, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, the reason for buying naming rights is to advertise, and in Wrigley's case it served to advertise the gum company. Likewise with a place like Crosley Field. More blatant branding started to creep in when the Busch brewery acquired the Cardinals and Sportsman's Park. Augie Busch was going to rename it Budweiser Stadium, and the league recoiled in mock horror, so instead he named it after himself, as Busch Stadium, which they couldn't do much about. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:23, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused: how is the sponsored name not the real name? Isn't that the whole point behind the naming rights? I know in some cases the traditional name remains by naming the field vs naming the building. Mingmingla (talk) 22:27, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

The media refers to Rogers Centre because Rogers Communications owns the stadium, the Toronto Blue Jays, and the team's main broadcaster (Sportsnet), but in everyday speech, everyone calls it by its old name, Skydome (or "the Dome"). Adam Bishop (talk) 11:50, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Media organisations such as the BBC or the ABC in Australia are government bodies which have strict codes actually preventing them from naming commercial sponsors wherever possible, so they avoid the commercial names like the plague. Another issue is that sponsored names change, often quite frequently. As an occasional editor on Australian sporting pages I promote the idea of using the non-commercial names for long term articles such as that on a sporting association or league, but the shorter term, sponsored names for a particular season's competition or a single match or game. The same concept should apply to stadium name articles. The non-commercial name is better for these articles because it generally doesn't change. It's important then that Wikipedia articles on stadiums,ad all their mentions elsewhere, use appropriate redirects so that we always end up at the right article. HiLo48 (talk) 21:11, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

How would this work for places that started out as sponsored-named and don't have any other names? Mingmingla (talk) 21:55, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually, as I said in my opening post, the BBC don't avoid the commercial names. It's only five seconds into this clip before the BBC presenter refers to "The Emirates". --Viennese Waltz 21:18, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

They're supposed. to. Nobody's perfect. HiLo48 (talk) 22:10, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Look at what we're still calling Docklands Stadium. That's had 5 names in its brief 13-year history; a provisional name (Victoria Stadium) and 4 generations of live names (Docklands Stadium, Colonial Stadium, Telstra Dome, and the current name, Etihad Stadium). Seems to me everyone, including the ABC, jumps on to the incumbent bandwagon the moment it's announced. I've not heard any commentator refer to any of the earlier names ever since it became Etihad Stadium about 4 years ago. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:26, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh Jack, do listen more carefully. Many commentators still call it Docklands. That's what they're supposed to say. And here is a current example in print. HiLo48 (talk) 22:10, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I'll happily concede I don't have one ear on the sports channels at every waking moment.

Not sure what "that's what they're supposed to say" means. What's the point of rebranding it "Etihad Stadium" if certain people aren't allowed to call it that? That would make for a very confusing situation.

The reference to Docklands in that article could just have been to the suburb, Docklands, Victoria, in which the stadium is located. They didn't mention "Docklands Stadium", just "Docklands". -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 22:43, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

for your claims on what they're supposed to do. You can see some of BBC's policies here [4] [5] and I don't see anywhere it says they should avoid naming commercial sponsors whenever possible. It does says they should avoid giving undue prominence, making it appear if the BBC endorses a brand or product etc. Similarly nothing [6] and the other links seem to forbid it.

I didn't find intepretations of these policies as it applies to naming rights but the fact they have to avoid undue prominence may mean if the name isn't common, they should refer to it by the common name even if other parties try to insist the name is wrong. It may even mean if both a sponsored name and some other name are equally common they should choose the other name. It may also mean they have to take care about using the name, e.g. Do they really have to refer to the stadium by name, particularly multiple times? And in some cases they may not need to use the trademark, e.g. if it gets rename to O2 Wembley Arena, even if the name takes off and becomes the most common name perhaps they may feel they don't need to include O2.

But I find it quite questionable that they should almost never refer to a stadium by a commercial name as you seem to suggest. Like when it's important that they identify which stadium and it's the most common name. Let alone if it's the only real name.

Note that this doesn't just apply to stadiums anyway, there are plenty of other areas where naming rights or similar come in to play. E.g. I find no evidence the BBC ever doesn't include Petronas when referring to the twin towers in KL. And what do you expect them to call Formula 1 teams? That team from Italy with a horse logo and red cars? The main team sponsored by an Austrian energy drink manufacturer? And refer to the America's cup defender as the defender rather then calling them by name? And remember in the modern world teams themselves are often commercial brands in addition to whatever sponsors may be involved. E.g. Manchester United, All Blacks.

Nil Einne (talk) 13:22, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

BTW I do agree with others in that it depends greatly on factors like the legacy of the stadium, time since the change, etc. Since I didn't come to NZ until 2001/2002, I wasn't even aware that the stadium used to be called Mt Smart Stadium until it reverted to that name. I never heard that name used but Ericsson Stadium was used all the time. I'm sure there were some people who called it Mt Smart stadium, but I'm fairly sure these were very rare. I don't follow Australian news that much but of course as the home of the Warriors NRL team and also venue for Rugby League internationals and the Big Day Out in NZ, the stadium must have gotten some mention there. And I can find plenty of references to Ericsson Stadium at ABC so whatever they're allegedly supposed to do, they didn't seem to do it very well. It's a pity the ABC doesn't seem to allow searching by date, my guess is if they did you'd find the references to the stadium as Mt Smart Stadium during the period before 2006 and after sometime in the 90s were rare.

On the other hand, there were suggestions for selling naming rights for Eden Park during discussions surrounding upgrades for the Rugby World Cup. While these came to nothing, my feeling is this would have been less accepted, so it likely would have still be referred to as Eden Park more often in NZ. In another direction, I don't think Westpac Stadium ever had a name which didn't include Westpac but as our article notes, it's commonly called The Cake-Tin colloquially. (I don't think this has that much to do with opposition to names with a sponsor.)

Oh and speaking of World Cups, we sometimes see the other direction. In these sort major events, there is usually a great deal of effort to protect their sponsors. Nowadays, this often extends to stadium names. So during such an event, a stadium may be referred to a sponsor-less name, at least by those who follow the rules of FIFA or whoever, even if the new name has never been used before and I suspect never heard after (whatever the alleged rules of the BBC and ABC) or at least not unless the stadium eventually gives up on naming rights.

Nil Einne (talk) 14:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri/ Alien Crossfire - UNS Unity

Does anyone know where I can find any pics of the UNS Unity from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri/ Alien Crossfire games. Also does anyone know what the specs are, as in the size, speed, crew complement etc. Scotius (talk) 16:22, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

You might try asking at http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?7-Alpha-Centauri&s=b928f106c4341f468b4831ba2b295f95 RNealK (talk) 22:50, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Pat Monahan

How did Pat Monahan from train get the scar on his chin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.27.120.148 (talk) 18:46, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Come again? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:10, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

See Patrick Monahan and Train (band). A medical incident involving Mr Monahan is described in his article, which may be the answer to the OP's question, although it's not made explicit. Tevildo (talk) 21:39, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Games

I have come to realize that downloading crack games are illegal. So i did a little bit of research and found out that once the copy right is expire it becomes public domain or if the person who create the game give up the right to a game it also become public domain. So am asking if any one know how i cam get any games that are in the public domain or rather a list of them then? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.170.63.101 (talk) 22:09, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

• Hello old chap! Try these three lists to start with!
  • List of freeware video games
  • List of open source video games
  • List of commercial video games released as freeware

Quintessential British Gentleman (talk) 23:01, 1 March 2013 (UTC) thanks!!!! but to be sure i have download 1 game already but it look the same way like the crack games i use to download but i don't see a crack or keygan. so these games are in the public domain? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.170.9.71 (talk) 12:57, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Not most of them, no. They fall into 2 categories: those that the makers are giving away free of their own volition, sometimes to advertise other games, sometimes just because they wanted to; others are what are called "open source" where they give it away free on the condition that if you change and improve it, you have to give your improvements away free as well, under the idea that people can cooperate to make very good free games i kan reed (talk) 20:36, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh right, the point is that those are different from public domain in that they don't implicitly allow anyone to copy them at any time for any reason, just that you can get copies for free right now. i kan reed (talk) 20:37, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Classical music composition - title needed

Hello,

I am searching for the title of a classical music composition from a Russian animation [7], beginning from 6:50. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 22:14, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

It's the "Sabre Dance" from the ballet Gayane by the Soviet Armenian composer Aram Khachaturian. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 22:28, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Great, thanks! I knew I would know the composer!--Tomcat (7) 22:30, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Name of a march music / circus music / carnival music

This is now a bit hard because I currently don't know of any media where it appeared (in some animation, probably Bugs Bunny), but definitely a well-known composition often used in various media. It may be categorized into those abovementioned genres. Overall it has a catchy, cheerful melody. Probably 2/2. Most of the time a loud, continuous drum dominates the tune. I think the composition begins mezzoforte/forte, then crescendo poco a poco, until returning to the actual rhythm. The main melody is produced by a brass section, and there are additionally woodwinds. As far as I know there are no strings. It includes some reprises with the same melody, and also a few bridges. The pattern of the main melody is something like e' - f # - f# - e' - f# - f#, and so on. Any help is appreciated! Regards.--Tomcat (7) 23:18, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Can you find a youtube of it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:20, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Poor sound quality, but is this,[8] at about the 4:55 mark, the item you're thinking of? In this case, it's Sylvester as a one-man band. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:25, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

My grasp of musical theory is rather weak, but your transcription reminds me of Oom Pah Pah, which was written for Oliver! by Lionel Bart. Alansplodge (talk) 01:14, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Does Circus music or "Entrance of the Gladiators" help? Dismas|^(talk) 02:42, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks so far, but it is none of the suggested pieces. "Over the Waves" is the closest of all, I think, but still too slow and quiet. Just a note that the main melody probably starts with a quarter note, and then two eight notes, and the same once again, then playing the same part in lower notes, followed by some kind of turn (much slower, though). The fourt segment is similar as the first part, but played in lower keys. The final bar probably includes half notes, and is also played like a turn. And everything probably played legato. I think it rather fits into march, but the opening line has similar elements as a circus composition, until the turn part, which sounds like a waltz. Hope that helps! Regards.--Tomcat (7) 12:17, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

If you can't find a youtube example, maybe you could create a sound file of you whistling or humming it and upload it to where we could hear it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:10, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

You wouldn't by any chance be thinking of Schubert's Marche Militaire, would you? - see this orchestral version. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:29, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Definitely not. It sounds Sousaesque. I opened a question at yahoo answers to see if we are faster. A hint: the main melody begins as "baa--ba-ba-baa--ba-ba-baba", and so on. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 10:18, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Above you said the closest suggestion so far is Over the Waves. That's a waltz, 3/4 time. I don't get how it could be close to anything in 2/2 time. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 10:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

At this point, as he's ignored various suggestions, I have to figure the OP doesn't really want to know badly enough to do a little work himself. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:21, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I have not ignored any suggestions (perhaps you ignored my notes given how different some examples are). I listened to all of them and none were really close to what I am searching. I listened to all pieces by Sousa, to Schubert, American marches, Russian marches, circus music, etc. I stated that Over the Waves is a bit close to the melody, but not to the rhythm. The unknown composition sounds like a Sousa piece, but it is not by Sousa. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 11:55, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

You ignored my suggestion to look for a youtube (such as a cartoon example that might have it); and you ignored my suggestion to find a site where you can hum or whistle the tune and upload to it. I know the latter is possible because it's been done here before. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:54, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

That is not "ignorance" if I don't want to search for cartoons on youtube or whistle the melody. I don't really know where it appeared, possible in not a single animation. Plus, my loudspeakers do not work, so I have to download the videos and then save them on my ipod. And I don't have any microphones. Regards.--Tomcat (7) 16:43, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, again, how badly do you want to know? You've got several folks here eager to find the answer for you, but you're not giving us enough information. Jack is a music whiz. If he can't figure it out, then it could be very difficult as it stands. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:17, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Does "BAA--ba-ba-BAA--ba-ba-BAba, balalalam-bam-bam-baa, BAA--ba-ba-BAA--ba-ba-BAba, balalalam-bam-bamBAM-bam-BAM" help? Regards.--Tomcat (7) 18:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

And you say it starts out e' - f # - f# - e' - f# - f#. How does it go after that, or does it just repeat that phrase? -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 18:51, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

One more suggestion that vaguely fits the description: The Parade of the Tin Soldiers. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 17:18, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Nope.--Tomcat (7) 18:23, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 21:18, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Last go - the Coronation March by Meyerbeer. If not, you're on your own I'm afraid. Alansplodge (talk) 18:49, 6 March 2013 (UTC)