Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2008 January 1

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January 1

The Federation

What kind of government hirarchy does/did the Star Trek Federation have and can it serve as a realistic model for government now or in the future or would this require replicator and other such supporting technology? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.3.166 (talk) 04:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the shows or movies ever went into great detail, but obviously it is a federal system inspired by the United States. It has a President and some sort of congress with representatives from different planets, which has meetings even if we don't really know what they are for. Starfleet is apparently a military/exploratory/ambassadorial department of the Federation. There are probably books which describe the system but they are non-canon. Maybe our United Federation of Planets article has more info. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe the original writers also claimed they drew from the United Nations when they wrote the show. It's actually pretty obvious if you look at the seal of the Federation of Planets. Might want to ask this at the Entertainment desk as well. Wrad (talk) 06:15, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

And the capital of the star federation is of course San Francisco...  ;-) AnonMoos (talk) 09:41, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the Federation Capital is Paris. And, towards the original question: no. The Federation cannot serve as a realistic model because it is based entirely on the notion of a post-scarcity economy, within the Federation, what we today would consider as normal, every-day economic activities simple do not take place - people don't buy things, people don't sell things, people don't get paid for their labour, people don't accumulate savings, et cetera, et cetera. Seeing as how the vast majority of law, constitutional or otherwise, concerns itself with property and who owns what, and who has access to what. So no, it doesn't really seem like a model from a state that doesn't have to worry about economics at all can really apply to a state that constantly has to worry about economics. 82.36.179.20 (talk) 02:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Can't believe I'm having a discussion of this degree of geekitude, considering that I'm not actually that much of a Star Trek fan (the only one of the movies I really liked was Star Trek IV), but while the office of the President of the Federation is in Paris, most of the other institutions seem to be in the bay area: Paris; San Francisco -- AnonMoos (talk) 12:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Economics don't seem to be completely abolished in Star Trek. Rare or unique items still seem to be bought and sold, along with some services. On most federation worlds this seems to only relate to extravagant luxury items. It's still implied that Star Fleet personnel make some sort of salary, but they don't seem to worry about it ever, no one is ever concerned about saving up to buy something. In fact, they probably have more money than they know what to do with since they're willing to spend money to eat at Quark's even though right across the hall is the replimat where they can apparently get whatever they want free of charge.

You have to wonder how real estate works, though. APL (talk) 21:10, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

The Night of the Vanities.

Can anyone provide more detailed information on the so-called, "Night of the Vanities? In the 14-1700s a Catholic monk or priest in Florence(?), Italy condemned all literature, music and works of art as evil distractions, and instigated a popular riot that burned a substantial number of the above.

Thank you. Quequeeg <NO EMAIL ADDRS> —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quequeeg (talk • contribs) 04:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

There's some, though not a lot of information in the article Bonfire of the Vanities. The article on book burning mentions "Decameron, Ovid and other "lewd" books"" as examples of literature targeted by Savonarola. ---Sluzzelin talk 05:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

If you google "Bonfire of the Vanities" + "Savonarola", you get a couple of sites with more information [1]. (If you leave out "Savonarola", you get many more hits on Tom Wolfe and Tom Hanks). ---Sluzzelin talk 09:11, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I recommend Chelsea Quinn Yarbro's novel The Palace (1978). While fiction, it is highly based on the events in Florence of 1497 and involves Savonarola and Botticelli. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 17:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Machiavelli treats some of it in The Prince. User:Krator (t c) 23:39, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

There's also more than a passing mention of it in The Birth of Venus Bunthorne (talk) 03:53, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Punishment for family member's crime

What is the term used when someone is punished for the crime of which someone else in their family has been accused (I am not looking for "collective punishment," I am sure there's another term.) And, how and when was it outlawed in United States jurisprudence? I can't find it in the Bill of Rights and I seem to remember it was before that. 209.77.205.9 (talk) 06:04, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

In German, there are the terms Sippenhaftung or Sippenhaft, and English has borrowed the word for the Third Reich's particular practice of "kin liability" or "liability of all the members of a family for the crimes of one member" [2]. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:33, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know where or if either the bill of rights or subsequent amendments cover it directly, but the far older Deuteronomy 24,16 states: "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (The chapter and verse might facilitate your search). ---Sluzzelin talk 06:51, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi, "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." (Exodus 20:5).  --Lambiam 14:37, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article on blood guilt stating "Blood guilt or kin liability is the attribution of responsibility for the alleged transgressions of one's relatives, kin, somewhat related to guilt by association, which is determined by physical or communicative proximity rather than genetic or familial proximity." SaundersW (talk) 16:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

It's legal in some respects in England, usually where a parent is charged or tried in court for offences committed by their children (including truancy). 81.77.136.231 (talk) 17:07, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

In the case of truancy, I think that strictly speaking the offence that parents are charged with is not ensuring that the child attends school (as the text of the link makes clear). AndrewWTaylor (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:35, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Corruption of blood? 68.39.174.238 (talk) 20:32, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

See Bill of attainder. In the United States Constitution, bills of attainder are specifically prohibited. Corvus cornix_talk 19:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Mughal Empire

I was researching mughal empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mughal_empire) and found the article much to biased and inaccurate. The mughal empire is portrayed as an ideal state without problems. I think this article is not well researched and written. Please correct the mistakes. Thank you. 74.192.219.227 (talk) 18:25, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

You should take this to the article's talk page and discuss it there. Please provide details on issues that you can discuss with other interested editors. I also suggest that you create an account so that other editors may interact with you. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 18:33, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

For the record, you're far from the only person to take issue with that articel. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 20:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Most of the (not overwhelmingly articulate) discussion, however, focuses on the pressing question whether Babur was a Mongol or a Turk.  --Lambiam 22:37, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I did notice some argument over the accuracy of the (Now removed) flag. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 08:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if it's accurate to say the Mughal empire is potrayed as an ideal state without problems. From the lead "Its decline has been variously explained as caused by wars of succession, agrarian crises fuelling local revolts, the growth of religious intolerance and British colonialism." British colonialism is obviously not a problem with the Mughal empire but the other ones sound like they are Nil Einne (talk) 09:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Tamara Summers

I have had He's With Me recommended by many girls. As young mother I don't have much time. I am looking for a brief summary of the book to see what its about. It's not in any of the local libraries and I don't want to buy it if it's not my type of book. The girls won't tell me what the story line is. I know its somewhat romantic. I just want to know if the main characters end up together in the end. Can you help? Dannie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.227.132.157 (talk) 21:19, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Amazon.com has a brief summary here 81.77.136.231 (talk) 21:56, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Countries that use leaded gas

Leaded gas is still in full use (not limited to off-road vehicles for instance) in some countries. Which countries are these? I have done some research but I can't seem to find a list of individual countries that still use it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.68.29.138 (talk) 22:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Consider our article on the banning of leaded petrol. It lists the countries which have ceased to sell this type of petrol / gasoline including the date of this cessation. You can then check the left overs to ascertain the regulations of these countries. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Although bear in mind that such lists are often not complete. You may want to look at and Petrol#Lead (which suggests it's been banned in sub-saharan Africa supported by [3]) and also take a look at [4]. Environmental groups could be your best source for this sort of thing. Tetra-ethyl lead may also have some helpful links. BTW I found all of these from simple Googling within a minute or two. Nil Einne (talk) 07:06, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Trying to identify classical piano piece - music fans, please help! [Solved]

I recently watched an episode of "Frasier" where a familiar sounding piano piece was played in the introduction. I cannot for the life of me place the name of the piece, and although the clip is only a few seconds long I'd be delighted if someone could help me find its name. I've posted on several forums but have had no luck, so please give it a listen, and let me know if it rings any bells! The clip can be downloaded here: http://rapidshare.com/files/80583108/song_clip.rar or from YouTube. Thank you. Soulhunter123 (talk) 23:22, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

No specific bells rung here I'm afraid, but it's in Baroque contrapuntal style - could be J. S. Bach or Handel or one of their contemporaries. BTW it's nice to see an actor actually playing the piano, as opposed to the usual obvious faking. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 12:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm having some trouble downloading the clip. It seems to require some special software, which I'm not prepared to pay $$ to access. -- JackofOz (talk) 20:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

It's a .wmv file wrapped up in a .rar - I uncompressed it with WinAce, which can be downloaded free but looks as if it turns into adware if you don't pay for it after 30 days. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 20:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

On Mac OS X it seems unplayable without installing unwanted software. So I too cannot give it a listen. Pfly (talk) 23:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm beginning to believe it's from Schubert's Piano Sonata number 20 in A major, the same piece as the theme song from the TV show "Wings" was taken from. The key is right, and it moves to C minor like the sonata does. Several websites mention that Niles plays a snatch of it in the beginning of the episode "Bla-Z-Boy". --Milkbreath (talk) 01:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

MB, that Wings theme is indeed from the Rondo of Schubert's superb A Major piano sonata of 1828. But that theme is quite similar to something from Mozart, so I'd like to hear the original clip. Has someone got it in a form other than .rar?

– Noetica^♬♩ Talk 02:14, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Funny you should say that. I was at first poking around in Mozart's childhood compositions. I think we're hearing Germanness. --Milkbreath (talk) 03:48, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Unless my ear has gone bad it's in B-flat, and it sure sounds like J.S. Bach. Don't recognize the exact piece; it's not in the WTC or the Inventions or Sinfonias. I'll e-mail the .wmv version which I unpacked to anyone who wants it. Oh, I had to download something called 7-Zip to unpack it. Cheers, Antandrus (talk) 03:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

It's the prelude to Bach's B-flat partita. Here's someone on Youtube playing it (too fast and too much pedal for me, but then I'm the Glenn Gould type). –Outriggr § 10:14, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

My thanks to everyone who helped with this, and my sincere apologies for having stupidly uploaded it in a non-universal format (RAR and WMV). For those who are still interested I have now placed a version of the WMV file on YouTube (here) which can hopefully be viewed by all. It was indeed Bach's Partita No.1, so thank you Outriggr for the final solution. To the rest, I genuinely appreciate your input - thank you. Soulhunter123 (talk) 13:37, 3 January 2008 (UTC)