Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2006 August 16

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Before Babel

Is it known or theorised what language was spoken before, according to the Bible, the Tower of Babel was built? Thank you in advance. --Gray Porpoise 01:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Well there are certainly theories. Confusion of tongues has some info and suggests Hebrew, origin of language suggests more scientific and amusingly named options but for extra freak points I'd choose Enochian. MeltBanana 01:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC) AMGEDPHA CAMLIAX AZIAZIOR IAD

Those articles are very interesting. Thank you for directing me to them. --Gray Porpoise 01:36, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

We have also that Adamic language page. -- DLL ^{.. T} 19:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hebrew phrases

What do the Hebrew phrases "לב בשר" and "עזות-פנים" mean? Mo-Al 01:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• See Breslov (Hasidic dynasty) for the former. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 05:12, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

A wild guess about "עזות פנים" is that it means something like "insolence". --Lambiam^Talk 06:51, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

"עזות פנים" is indeed insolence or impudence, and the other one is literally a heart of flesh, i.e. showing compassion or pity. СПУТНИК^{CCC P} 21:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Ugly words

What are some of the ugliest words in the English language? (Please don't ask me to define "ugly"). My two stand-out candidates are:

• usufruct
• palimpsest.

JackofOz 06:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I kind of like your two. But for me, it's denigrate. Anchoress 07:01, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

List of Latin words with English derivatives. -- THE GREAT GAVINI {T|C|#} 07:03, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

It's got to be gusset. --Richardrj 07:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Euch, gusset. Urgh, it makes my teeth hurt. That's a gross, gross word. Anchoress 09:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

No. --Dweller 09:16, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

pug is one of mine. I'll write more if I think of some. —Daniel (‽) 11:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

honorificabilitudinitatibus (Love's Labours Lost, v.1)--Shantavira 13:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Here's a few shockers: goiter, smegma and swank. --Dweller 13:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Epee. 'Nuff said. -Obli (Talk)^? 13:41, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

In the English language! --Dweller 13:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

If "epee" isn't an English word then neither are goiter or smegma. --Ptcamn 13:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I like goiter, smegma, epee and swank. Don't like honorificabilitudinitatibus. Hope I typed that right. Anchoress 13:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll stand up for palimpsest. I don't think it's ugly at all. --LarryMac 15:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The article palimpsest is fairly messy though. --Dweller 15:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Agree with "usufruct". Like palimpsest, though. How about phlegm? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:54, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

unctuous and oink are ugly ones for this humble user. And boing is one of the least ugly. Better than "cellar door" any day. --Brandnewuser 19:10, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

kitchenette, liaise and genre MeltBanana 19:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

utilize has always seemed ugly to me. — Jéioosh 20:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Not quite ugly, but Ill seems too stripy to me, and in some fonts is almost illegible. –RHolton≡– 21:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I had a friend call himself Illi before. That was too stripy. --Brandnewuser 21:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Someone once told me that she hated the word moist and a few days later I made it seem as though I was humming and ended it with "mmmmmmmmmmmoist!" She seemed pretty mad but I'm sure that deep down she thought it was pretty funny. AEuSoes1 21:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Delmarva and Arklatex. -- Mwalcoff 23:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I like "among", but I cringe at "amongst". JackofOz 01:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

"pulchritudinous" is ugly if, like me, you prefer words that sound like what they actually mean :) Ziggurat 02:09, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I have a computer named Usufruct. You hurt its feelings, Jack. —Bkell (talk) 03:29, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Awww, I'm sorry, dear computer. (No offence to your computer, but I think it's time for a deed poll, or whatever they use in Nebraska for change of name).  :--) JackofOz 04:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Pantyhose. In fact a lot of terms related to women's underwear are upsetting - teddy, snap-crotch, our old friend the gusset. There must be some interesting psychology at work. Henry^Flower 14:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

lol. Well to be fair the word 'gusset' was in use (in engineering and sewing) before it became associated with women's underwear. I don't mind 'teddy', unless it has some creepy etymology that I'm unfamiliar with. 'Snap crotch' is unattractive but has the virtue of being literal, at least. I come from a family of engineers so I can't help but appreciate its economy and descriptiveness. But while we're at it, I think 'crotch' is very ugly. 'Armpit' is also very unattractive to me. Anchoress 14:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

• Anything prefixed "mega-" hotclaws**==(82.138.214.1 11:56, 20 August 2006 (UTC))

• • To me it's "I" and "a". Lack of creativity. Aran|heru|nar 14:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

UPDATE:

I've just come across a new candidate for "Ugliest Word in the English Language". Wait for it ... fricativize. I found it here. JackofOz 13:21, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

'aufgelassen'

Saw a notice in my home town of Vienna today by a closed tram stop, saying that the stop was 'aufgelassen'. I assume this is a past participle, but of which verb? My dictionary only gives 'auflassen', meaning to leave open, which sounds like the complete opposite. --Richardrj 07:31, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed the past participle of auflassen. But in Austro-Bavarian German auflassen can mean "close down, shut down". User:Angr 07:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Is it cognate to auflösen? Wikipeditor 2006-08-17

Probably is - they've similar enough meanings... -- THE GREAT GAVINI {T|C|#} 06:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah, no... "lösen" is related to English "lease" and "loose", "lassen" is related to English "let". 惑乱 分からん 13:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

There isn't a great deal of difference, meaning-wise, between "let" and "lease". -- THE GREAT GAVINI {T|C|#} 18:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Seems I was wrong about "lease", it appears to be a latinate borrowing. The English cognate is archaic/obsolete "leese" (lose). Otherwise, meaning doesn't make words cognates (or I think they're more correctly called "doublets" within a single language). "Let" and "loose" are derived from two different Germanic and Proto-Indo-European roots. Pen and pencil are similar in meanings but are derived from two different roots. 惑乱 分からん 18:40, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks very much. I have also seen gesperrt used in the same context. Wish they'd make up their minds! --Richardrj 07:45, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

• The past participle of auflösen is aufgelöst (not sure that's the correct spelling, but the word itself is correct). - Mgm|^(talk) 11:16, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

language

which is the mostly speaking language in the world.

The one in which such questions are suitly emphazied. :--) JackofOz 11:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Mandarin Chinese is the most spoken language in the world. --Gray Porpoise 11:11, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Although as that article makes clear, the status of Mandarin as 'a language' is somewhat suspect. Henry^Flower 12:06, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

If Mandarin is just a dialect of a larger Chinese language, then Chinese would still be the mostly speaking language in the world. AEuSoes1 01:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I think Henry means Mandarin may be two or more languages, each of which may have a less claim. —Tamfang 06:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Henry^Flower 11:16, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Stroopwafel

What would be the plural (in Dutch) of Stroopwafel? My guesses are Stroopwafels, or Stroopwafeln, but I don't know Dutch.

Thanks. —Daniel (‽) 12:07, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

It's stroopwafels- see http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroopwafel . Henry^Flower 12:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. —Daniel (‽) 12:52, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

If the plural would have been with an 'n', it would have been 'stroopwafelen', so with 'en'. Just 'n' is more typically German. DirkvdM 04:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. The 'n' idea was based on my knowledge of German anyway (I don't actually know Dutch :(). —Daniel (‽) 12:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

As a further note, the final 'n' in -en isn’t pronounced in most Dutch dialects, so it would commonly sound like *stroopwafele if it had the -en plural. — Jéioosh 22:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course this does not apply to German because else the plural would be pronounced the same as the singular. Although I doubt if English sheep would see a problem in that. DirkvdM 05:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Heh. With all this talk of stroopwafels I’m craving them now... Anyone know where to find one in Hawai‘i? — Jéioosh 08:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

yookoso

what does "yookoso" mean? --Shanedidona 23:15, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Which language is it? Japanese? In that case, "Welcome!" 惑乱 分からん 23:30, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

You're so kind. [me bowing deep too] But what does it mean? DirkvdM 04:46, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Wait, is that a joke? @_@ Anyway, the usage seems to be slightly formal, used on aircrafts and similar... 惑乱 分からん 11:29, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned coment

This comment was made to the main Language Ref page after this date had been transcluded:

Yes I was looking for other ways to spell It. Leonard Szeszycki