Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism/Archive 2024

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Order of St. Sylvester

I came to this page as part of the process of deleting the article on a Japanese musician (deletion discussion), who claimed a number of "nobility" titles, all fairly obviously bogus. Looking at the article (Notable members), there are lots of totally plausible referenced people, but many unreferenced or totally implausible people. It is difficult to tell immediately which website would belong to the genuine papally awarded honour, rather than some commercial offshoot. Can anyone help find a real list of the awards, for example, which could be used to filter out the imposters? I will leave Kento Masuda there for the time being as a typical example. Imaginatorium (talk) 08:44, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

@Imaginatorium: took me a few days but I do believe that this is a genuine Italian government document containing a list of Papal and Italian honors extant as of 2015. If you require anything more, I know a guy! ~ Pbritti (talk) 07:25, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

@Pbritti: Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but I can't find anything in that document like a list of names. Just lots of details of various decorations. I am thinking of just flagging all entries without a plausible reference (quite a few just link to the person's own website, which has no information at all). Or perhaps where the subject has a WP article, I could just delete them and put a comment on the talk page of that article. Imaginatorium (talk) 11:36, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Checking some of the refs already in place, I find these honors listed in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis (AAS). See, for example, the citation for Anthony Bailey or the two citations related to this order at Anthony Bailey (PR advisor). These refs lack page numbers, but you'll find Bailey listed on page 673 of AAS for 5 September 2008 HERE, assuming he is "Anthony John James Bailey (Westminster)". There are a few hundred recipients named, with rank and date awarded, almost all in the year preceding publication.

Curious about the survival of these honors under Francis, I found a comparable but far shorter list covering 2021 here, pp. 788–91. Rutsq (talk) 13:15, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Renaming Category:Roman Catholic theologians to Category:Catholic theologians

Discussion about a proposal to rename, see Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_January_5#Category:Roman_Catholic_theologians. Please leave your comments pro and con. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Dom Justo Takayama#Requested move 5 January 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dom Justo Takayama#Requested move 5 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:39, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Syro-Malabar Catholic Church#Requested move 10 January 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Syro-Malabar Catholic Church#Requested move 10 January 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 16:17, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

New parameters for Infobox church

I have requested that two additional parameters be created for Template:Infobox church: sui_iuris_church and former_sui_iuris_church. Modeled on sui_iuris_church parameter of Template:Infobox diocese, the sui_iuris_church parameter would be located below the denomination parameter, the former_sui_iuris_church parameter below the former_denomination parameter. This would be broadly useful for current or former Eastern Catholic church buildings, as well as church buildings in countries where the Latin Church can not be assumed as the operator of a Catholic building. ~ Pbritti (talk) 20:43, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Coverage question

Does WikiProject Catholicism cover Catholic schools and Catholic colleges/universities? I have two local Catholic universities that aren't yet included in this project. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 03:55, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

@StefenTower: We include anything related to Catholicism under the project's umbrella. If they were once or are currently affiliated with the church, they're within the purview of the project! ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

OK, great - thanks. I'll go ahead and add them then. Stefen Tower_{s among the rest!} ^{Gab • Gruntwerk} 04:35, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Probably concurrent/overlapping scope with Wikipedia:WikiProject Higher education and Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools.  — Archer1234 (t·c) 04:39, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Article reorganisation proposal for Pope Francis and LGBT topics

There is currently a discussion at Talk:Pope Francis and LGBT topics regarding a reorganisation of the article. The thread is Article reorganisation proposal. Thank you.

I am seeking consensus for a significant reorganisation of the article. I would be grateful for your comments. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 14:20, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

 Completed Additional comments and oversight would be appreciated! IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 11:46, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Expert needed (Magisterium, Fiducia Supplicans)

We need an expert at Fiducia Supplicans, good editors and reliable sources are disagreeing and the article and talk pages have been filled with persistent dispute. If anyone very knowledgeable in the subject would be willing to look at the recent edits and the talk page, they will see how messy this has become. Any help from those who specialize in this area would be greatly appreciated by all of us trying to maintain the article as objectively as possible. Ysys9 (talk) 15:44, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry to say that until the topic is more settled within the Church itself, we are not likely to see it clarified here. Dcheney (talk) 06:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Proposal to add an "eparchy" parameter to Infobox Christian leader

There is currently a discussion at the talk page for the template {{Infobox Christian leader}} regarding a proposal to add an |eparchy= parameter to the template. You are invited to review and join the discussion. Thank you.  — Archer1234 (t·c) 17:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Wikiproject banner question

Sometimes on talk pages, the Catholicism Wikiproject is given as a subproject of Wikiproject Christianity (as in Talk:Augustine of Hippo), other times it is a separate banner (as in Talk:Jerome). Someone asked about this several years ago on the banner template talk page, and got the answer that they are functionally the same. But is there a preference between the two, or does it really not matter at all? Thanks! Smdjcl (talk) 20:42, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Santa Cueva de Montserrat#Requested move 18 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Santa Cueva de Montserrat#Requested move 18 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 23:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Shrovetide#Requested move 5 February 2024

An editor has requested that Shrovetide be moved to Pre-Lent, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion. Graham (talk) 01:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Clement of Rome#Requested move 3 March 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Clement of Rome#Requested move 3 March 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:45, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Writing an article for a Catholic movie entitled Trinity's Triumph

+ To whom it may concern:

Good afternoon! I am new to trying to create an article for Wikipedia and have been having a hard time trying to do it on my own. A friend told that I should reach out to a Wikipedian and then another friend mentioned your WikiProject Catholicism section.

I am hoping that one of you would be so kind to write an article for the movie that I wrote and produced entitled Trinity's Triumph. I have added all the pertinent information in this section:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Arts_and_entertainment/Film,_radio_and_television#T%E2%80%93V

Please let me know if you need more information.

I pray that one of you will be able to help me.

SJJPF (talk) 18:57, 7 March 2024 (UTC) Father Stephen Fichter

@SJJPF: Wikipedia is not a platform for your advertising. Articles about films have to pass WP:NFILM and your subject does not. While I was able to find sources about the movie, almost all of them were interviews of the producer or were written with input from the producer, so none of them (from FoxNews to National Catholic Reporter) provide any claim of notability. The good news is, you made your film. Perhaps in the next decade or two the film will become the subject of multiple independent reviews. Until then, there's nothing to be done here. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:16, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Malaysian dioceses

Hello all. User:GeralfD has been adding interminable lists of individual houses of worship to the articles relating to Malaysian dioceses; see Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Kota Kinabalu and Roman Catholic Diocese of Keningau for example. I removed some of these lists but I realize I do not know what the Project Catholicism's stance would be. I leave it to you, thanks.  Mr.choppers | ✎  01:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

@Mr.choppers: Thanks for reaching out to ask. WP Catholicism defers to EnWikipedia policies and guidelines, so your removal of such extensive lists of unverified content falls well within the standards of WP:V. As best I can tell, lists of individual church buildings that lack independent references (or any references at all) are not encyclopedically relevant. If you'd like help cleaning, please ping me at my talk page! Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 12:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, I went ahead and reverted their additions. Best,  Mr.choppers | ✎  18:24, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Even if sourced, are not these exhaustive lists of parishes contrary to WP:NOTDIRECTORY? Maybe any such lists ought to be limited to notable current or former parishes or parish churches. Notability is commonly used as an inclusion criterion for lists (for example for listing out a school's alumni).  — Archer1234 (t·c) 01:26, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, churches with articles - not potentially notable churches, which could be anything - should be ok in places like Malaysia, where there won't be too many. It wouldn't do for eg Italy or France. Johnbod (talk) 14:03, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Fiducia supplicans

Despite the overwhelming viewpoint among philosophers (such as Edward Feser), news reports, and more being that the 2021 document is not overruled, several editors are claiming that even mentioning this perception violates Wikipedia guidelines. Certainly this deserves mention in some form. The current version of the article comes across as an argumentative essay attempting to convince someone that nothing significant has changed. An idea that would be widely disputed at best.StardustToStardust (talk) 15:40, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Feser. A blogger who teaches philosophy at Pasadena City College. Do better. Rutsq (talk) 19:38, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

A lot of philosophers have blogs.

Does it matter where they teach? StardustToStardust (talk) 20:35, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

For WP:BALANCE, their WP:SIGCOV matters, and I'm guessing Feser isn't going to get much traction in this context. In any case, WP:RS does matter; see WP:PRIMARY. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 14:33, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

It matters who publishes his views. If Dr. Feser has an article on this topic in NCRegister (or, even better, in a theological journal) we would have something to work with. Nautical Mongoose (talk) 17:21, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Isabella I of Castile#Requested move 29 February 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Isabella I of Castile#Requested move 29 February 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Векочел (talk) 13:10, 23 March 2024 (UTC)