Talk:Ergenekon

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Critisim about criticism[edit]

The scientists who critisice origin of this issueare not qualified to give opinions about this legend. Non of them are Turkologist, historians, mythologists, literatural historians etc. One of them is an atomic scientist, the other is a politician, and the other is a politicial scientist. Their opinions about this issue should not be taken as serious scientific criticism. They can not give expert opinion about this legend, just like they can not talk about open heart surgery or genetic engineering. This cirticism section should be removed or rewritten with solid sources and opinions of real experts.

Disambiguation move proposal[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was No move Parsecboy (talk) 22:54, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is no real disambiguation usage. Legal case Ergenekon network is a derived usage of the "legendary place". -- Cat ^chi? 11:01, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Oppose The order of derivation is irrelevant - see Boston. Ergenekon is used often alone to refer to the ongoing affairs in Turkey, therefore we have a need for a disambiguation page at the bare name in the absence of overwhelming primary usage. I would not oppose a move of this page to some other disambiguating qualifier though - "legendary place" sounds like a slogan for a bad nightclub. Knepflerle (talk) 14:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. There are two articles to which "Ergenekon" can refer, and neither one is clearly and unambiguously the primary topic. Also, because they are so closely related, even if one were the primary topic there still would be utility in keeping a disambiguation page at the ambiguous title, to help disambiguate between them. --Una Smith (talk) 07:05, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly Oppose. There is a very clear disambiguation page. It is not clear that the organization is derived from the legendary place; read the article. Finally, the organization's article rather more popular than the legend's. If "Ergenekon" should be redirected to anything, it should be the organization's article. --Adoniscik^{(t, c)} 14:43, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

Please explain "no real disambiguation usage". --Una Smith (talk) 07:07, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

January 2009 move proposal[edit]

Should we rename this article to Ergenekon (myth) ? --Adoniscik^{(t, c)} 01:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

'Mythical' rather than 'legendary' Ergenekon?[edit]

The ongoing legal investigation in Turkey centered purportedly on a paramilitary gang formed to disrupt the country's fragile democracy by creating chaos has been baptized 'Ergenekon,' after the well-known myth. Now, from a purely linguistic viewpoint, would it not be more appropriate to phrase the reference as one to the 'mythical' Ergenekon, rather than 'legendary,' the latter primarily denoting the sense 'of great fame,' etc? Of course, I may be wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bahattincal (talk • contribs) 23:35, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Personal opinion[edit]

However it should be noted that Türköne is a political scientist and not an expert on Turkic mythology, history or literature. is accept as personal opinion. We can add Türköne's major field of study. But we cannot use the expression such as it should be noted. Please read Wikipedia:Five pillars. Wikipedia is not the place to insert personal opinions, experiences, or arguments. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 18:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This not personel view. In addition, Turkone's comments regarding the Ergenekon Case. This article isn't political. WP:NPOV please. Mumtaz'er Turkone is known for his proximity to the AKP . These sentences was written with political propaganda purposes. We've made this argument in Turkish wikipedia.. You sholud read WP:Troll--Nihan (talk) 23:06, 26 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That is exactly your own opinion. And this essay (google translate) is related in Legend not about Ergenekon Case. And Turkish wikipedia is not our resource, especially your opinions without evidence aren't considered as identifying reliable sources. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 05:14, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If this information is correct, should be also other sources. You should verify with other sources. Turkone's writings, nothing more than political propaganda. Although we have made this argument before, you don't care about others' opinion. You doing troll activities between wikis. You know that Wikipedia policies (WP:NPOV, WP:RS etc..) is the same all the wikipedias... I wonder can an admin write a opinion. Thanks. --Nihan (talk) 12:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Turkone's column can not be identified as a reliable source. This text is full of unfounded claims, and ridiculous determinism. He criticize "Mongol were also Turk" claims, but he himself says that Huns were Turk, and Turk were enemies of Mongols. In the text, Turkone clearly states his own political objectives, "crushing wolf idol, restoring Ottoman heritage". This text only can be mentioned under political debates on Ergenekon epic.--CenkX (talk) 00:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

To OssetianRealm: Ergenkon's motif is similar to old-Turkic myths. Probably it was borrowed from them. But the Ergenekon itself is Mongolian one. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 12:53, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

About Turkish Mythology and Mongolian Mythology[edit]

Turkish Mythology and Mongolian Mythology are different... But they are many common figures...

Also Turkish Mythology and Persian Mythologies are different. But they are some common figures...
Also Mongol Mythology and Tibet Mythologies are different. But they are some common figures...

Ergenekon is a Turkic Epic too as Mongolian.. Example: Ergene is a word in Anatolia that means mine pit...
Many figures are common in many mythologies.. Gezer Han (Abai Geser) is common in Turkic, Mongolian, Tibetian and also Indian mythologies... Is not it? Why? But it is... Buzancar (talk) 06:57, 17 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Some Turkish researchers claim ..... " . This myth is in the middle of or i should say the mother of all myths in Turkish culture. And everybody knows this in Turkey. How can you say "some turkish researchers" only? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.32.14.30 (talk) 06:20, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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