Talk:Jews in Hong Kong

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:07, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 23:39, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

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• Article history

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• ... that Hong Kong's Jewish community formed in the 1850s? Source: https://www.anumuseum.org.il/jewish-community-hong-kong/

5x expanded by Golden (talk). Self-nominated at 15:35, 26 January 2022 (UTC).

• Apologies if this is bad form, I'm new to DYK, but I would suggest a different hook to highlight the more interesting and surprising parts of the article, such as "... that in the late 1800s, Hong Kong's small Jewish community was divided into two groups that wouldn't even pray together?"
  • @Rusalkii: Hello! Your proposed hook is much better than mine, I'm happy to change it to that. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 15:27, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
  • ALT1: "... that in the late 1800s, Hong Kong's small Jewish community was divided into two groups that wouldn't even pray together?"

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: A lovely piece of work - a narrative but source-/academically-backed summary of an interesting history. Just a few things to do. First, if you can confirm that this is just your second nomination (I see only one past success, but in case of far-back, or failed, noms, just to be sure). Second, there must be a citation for the hook fact. The refs are offline, so I can't say, but maybe one or more of the refs for the second sentence here also apply to the first sentence (The two communities did not even pray together and buried the dead in different parts of the Jewish cemetery. Ashkenazim were forced to settle in poor neighbourhoods and boarding houses, work in bars and clubs with a dubious reputation and some women worked in prostitution.[8][9])? Finally, the big one. A massive job has been done, but it does not seems to be 5 times expansion of the base text, but 4.x, and we do have to be strict on this, to be fair to all. So can you either demonstrate that the DYKCHeck tool is mistaken, and the expansion is 5x, or add a few more relevant sentences? Many thanks, and I look forward to being able to turn the couple of reds above green and approve this soon. Golden - can you come back on this? SeoR (talk) 12:43, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@SeoR: Hi, sorry, I've been quite busy lately. Yes, this is my second ever nomination. About the citation, the sources are for both of the sentences, which is why it appears one sentence after our hook's line in the article (Ehrlich, Mark Avrum (2008). Encyclopedia of the Jewish Diaspora: Origins, Experiences, and Culture. p.1187 & Gilman, Sander (2014). Judaism, Christianity, and Islam: Collaboration and Conflict in the Age of Diaspora p.101). When it comes to the size, I expanded the article further after your review with the last bits of information I could milk from the books and online sources I have access to. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any other available information about the subject that isn't already in the article. Is it a good enough size now? Cheers. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 10:06, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Golden, great to hear from you, and yes, that further expansion work took it over the line, so we're good on scale - and on the citation, now that I know that re. the sources, I can make sure. Standing by to clear. Well done! Added comment: given the scale of coverage, I strongly recommend that, reading and where relevant modifying for the relevant guidelines, you consider taking this article to the Good Article process. I think it has the makings. SeoR (talk) 10:55, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

@SeoR: Thank you! I've already nominated the article for GAN, hopefully it does pass once picked up. Have a good day. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 11:13, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:History of the Jews in Hong Kong/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: An anonymous username, not my real name (talk · contribs) 21:10, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

I will attempt to review this. I will use this existing good article as something of a reference. Not to discourage you, but I think your article focuses a little too much on their modern status, and contains relatively little actual history. It may be best to split it into separate articles. I would hate to quickfail it, but it will need a lot of work. As soon as I can, I will try to have a list of specific recommendations. --An anonymous username, not my real name (talk) 21:10, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Hmmm, after reading it over some more I'm afraid it doesn't give broad enough coverage; again, it focuses largely on modern Jewish Hong Kongers. I am requesting a second opinion, but I'm leaning towards quickfailing it. --An anonymous username, not my real name (talk) 23:42, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Would the issue be fixed if the article was renamed to "Jews in Hong Kong" (similar to Jews in Istanbul)? The Jewish community of Hong Kong was tiny before the late 20th century, so there's not really any room to broaden the topic of history any more than what's already in the article. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 08:44, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I think renaming it would make more sense. I guess perhaps I overreacted. I will work on a full review. --An anonymous username, not my real name (talk) 21:24, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Alright, I will rename the article to "Jews in Hong Kong" tomorrow (not today to avoid any possible technical issues with its current display at the Main Page as a DYK). Have a good day! — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 21:29, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

I've now moved the article to "Jews in Hong Kong". — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 15:29, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

I strenuously object to this move. Golden, while your work on this article certainly merits praise and thanks from the community, I think your move was extremely hasty, and I urge you to consider undoing it and opening a proper move proposal instead. Thank you! Joefromrandb (talk) 06:33, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

@Joefromrandb - Sorry, just saw this. Sure, I can move it back and have an RM. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 10:27, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 19 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost (talk) 11:09, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

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History of the Jews in Hong Kong → Jews in Hong Kong – The article covers much more than just the history of the community, including their current situation, cuisine, schools and more. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 10:33, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

• Support- The sections on Current situation & Antisemitism taken together has more content than just the History part. This article is much better suited under the proposed title.

---CX Zoom(^he/_him) (^{let's talk}|_contribs) 17:14, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

• Unsure The suggested title is more precise given the the historical aspect is only part of the article. But it isn't really consistent with the titles of similar articles about particular Jewish populations, which tend to be either 'History of the Jews in X' or 'X Jews' (e.g. History of the Jews in Iraq, Italian Jews). This list has more examples - I didn't do too much of a deep dive, but after a quick look it seems like 'History of X' is more frequent. Based on that, I would suggest that 'History of the Jews in Hong Kong' is fine, but an equally usable alternative would be 'Hong Kong Jews'. 'Jews in Hong Kong' should maybe be avoided for consistency's sake. MadameOctavian (talk) 11:49, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
  • There are articles like Jews in Istanbul and Jews in the Southern United States, so "Jews in Hong Kong" wouldn't be the first of its kind. Regardless, each case should be treated by itself, so we shouldn't keep a title that doesn't accurately represent its content just for the sake of consistency. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 16:28, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jews and Judaism Template

Would this article benefit from including Template:Jews and Judaism sidebar? Some similar articles about Jewish communities in particular locations have the template (History of the Jews in China, American Jews, History of the Jews in Alexandria) and some don't (History of the Jews in New York City, History of the Jews in Moscow). MadameOctavian (talk) 06:24, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

I imagine Jews and Judaism sidebar would be much more relevant than the current Ethnicity in Hong Kong sidebar, which doesn't even list the Jews. Having them both would look too messy, so I've now replaced one with the other. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 08:03, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

GOCE copyedit

Just a heads up that I'll be copyediting this article in response to the request to the Guild of Copy Editors, if anyone has questions/comments. MadameOctavian (talk) 12:05, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

@MadameOctavian: Hi. It's been a week, so I wanted to check in. Are you still willing to copyedit? — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 23:17, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Yep all good to continue! Haven't had time in the last few days since my last edits on the 26th but will get on it. Have done the lead and most of the history section at this point. MadameOctavian (talk) 23:52, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Update, copy-edit is done! MadameOctavian (talk) 12:02, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

@MadameOctavian: Thank you for the amazing work! — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 12:06, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Reorganising headings

The article is currently organised with the main headings 'History' (including 19th-20th century) and then 'Current Situation'. The name of 'Current situation' is problematic because it dates the article. My suggestions are that

1. the first section of 'Current situation' (which mostly refers to the 21st century, except for the reference to the Jewish Community Centre being built in 1995) be moved to the end of 'History', under a '21st Century' subheading.
2. the subheadings that are under 'Current Situation' could be promoted to level 2 headings. Another reason I suggest this is that a lot of the content under 'Current Situation' is actually about stuff that happened in the 20th century (especially under 'Culture and Sports' and 'Education'), so it wouldn't make sense to nest those sections under '21st Century'.

Wanted to get consensus before making a big structural change like that :) MadameOctavian (talk) 07:08, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm okay with that. — Golden ^{call me maybe?} 09:07, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Awesome, done! I've left 'Cuisine' as a level 3 heading under 'Culture and sports' since it was quite short and it makes sense to nest it under 'culture' anyway I think. MadameOctavian (talk) 07:09, 6 March 2022 (UTC)