Talk:Kellie Maloney

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Swinton Circle[edit]

There is nothing dubious about the assertion that Frank Maloney addressed the Swinton Circle in March 2010, as confirmation appears on the Swinton Circle website. Furthermore, as I, Alan Harvey, am currently Chairman of the Swinton Circle it stands to reason that I would be involved in the organising of this meeting! AlanDHarvey (talk) 09:50, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have added dubious template to the claim that Maloney addressed the Swinton Circle in 2010 as while it is not disputed he addressed a meeting organised by Alan Harvey the claim that it was the Swinton Circle is currently disupted [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Utinomen (talk • contribs) 20:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He/she?[edit]

When referring to historical actions/comments when she was a man surely she should be referred to as he? Very confusing. VenomousConcept (talk) 17:13, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is covered at MOS:IDENTITY. --j⚛e deckertalk 17:22, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
" unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise.", evidently the subject did always refer to himself as a male during his notable time in boxing, but there is no information on how Maloney would like to be referred to in retrospect. Not that there is anything I feel the need to add to the article, I honestly wouldn't know how to refer to Maloney. --The Old Boy In Town (talk) 18:06, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Indicated a preference otherwise" applies to statement made after transition / coming out. KTC (talk) 20:32, 11 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
On closer inspection, that ruling should really be overturned. It is otherwise false revisionism (rewriting history to incorrect facts). Look at this statement concerning his[sic] early life, "She began boxing at school, and while at school wanted to become a Catholic priest,". She went up against men, and she wanted to be a priest at a time when female reverends were unheard of. Nonsensical. --The Old Boy In Town (talk) 19:28, 12 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The assumption is that the person always identified as another gender unless they say otherwise. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 19:32, 12 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There's a reason we don't have bots do auto search & replace. If something doesn't make sense due to a change in pronouns and nothing else, you reword it. -- KTC (talk) 20:00, 12 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Allegations of racism and homophobia[edit]

Because of recent events I referred to this article. I followed the links in this section, and some of them are dead, while others link to pages that don't have any connection to Frank Maloney. What there is ingores his comments in the Independent in 2010: [[2]], where he repudiates the claims he is racist, and while he continues to express a level of homophobia, he does state quite clearly that he was wrong about what he is cited as saying in here. A significant part of the section is making claims about UKIP, and from that seeking to add weight that he is racist. This is WP:SYNTH. I am not keen to edit this article myself, but would request that those involved in editing page give a more balanced reflection, using reliable sources, and remove what cannot verified from links which do not seem to be real. - MishMich - Talk - 12:48, 11 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

+1--Dee Earley (talk) 20:47, 14 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Move request[edit]

There is a move request at Talk:Frank Maloney (disambiguation)#Requested move that affects Frank Maloney which currently redirects here. Timrollpickering (talk) 19:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2014[edit]

Kellie Maloney PR contact Champions (UK)Plc 188.39.128.106 (talk) 14:34, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Anupmehra -Let's talk! 17:43, 15 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do we refer to a trans woman by her male birth name in Wikipedia??[edit]

Wikipedia's MOS says we respect transgender people; we don't refer to a trans woman by her male birth name except in areas we need to mention it. Georgia guy (talk) 15:37, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

When she was born she was called Francis Maloney. Acting like she's always been Kellie is deliberately misleading the reader. Zacwill16 (talk) 15:46, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please read Wikipedia:Manual of style#Identity. Georgia guy (talk) 15:50, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing in there says that we should effectively rewrite the past so that the subject is treated as a woman. Before 2014, Kellie Maloney was a man called Francis. That is a fact. Zacwill16 (talk) 15:55, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You're locking her in her old name. Do you really mean she actually was a man (not only as opposed to a woman in general, but also as opposed to a transgender woman) before her body was changed with surgery?? Georgia guy (talk) 15:57, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please explain how I'm 'locking her in'; I fully accept that she is now called Kellie, but before 2014 her name was Francis. Yes I mean she was a man; before she became transgender this was what she considered herself. Zacwill16 (talk) 16:01, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You mean, transgender people are born cisgender?? Georgia guy (talk) 16:02, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. Until they decide to change their gender, they are the gender they were born as. Zacwill16 (talk) 16:04, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please do research, realizing transgender people aren't people who arbitrarily choose to change their gender. Also, please don't leave this discussion between us. Georgia guy (talk) 16:23, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of this, Maloney's gender assignment should be mentioned in the lead, since as I said this is a notable fact. If you insist I won't refer to her as Francis, even though this was her name at the time. Zacwill16 (talk) 16:35, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The issue here is partly a question of how to write about transgender people, certainly, but on an even more basic and universal level it's also a simple question of WP:LASTNAME: once the person's given name has been established in the lead, the rest of the body must be written using their surname and/or pronouns, not their first name — the first name may be used only in a context where the last name alone might be ambiguous, specifically because somebody else with the same surname is also mentioned in the same sentence (thus creating a situation where it wouldn't be clear anymore who was intended by "Maloney" in that one specific spot in the article.) And that's not a rule that's unique to transgender people alone, but rather one that applies equally to all people on Wikipedia regardless of their gender identity — and the reason for it is simply a matter of maintaining an encyclopedic writing tone rather than a "public relations" tone.
So once the names Kellie and Francis have been given in the introduction, she's "Maloney" and/or a pronoun for the rest of the article — there's no other place in the entire article where there's any call to use either Francis or Kellie at all, and thus no basis for any real debate about which name we should use at any given point in the article's chronology. Bearcat (talk) 14:44, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Current version seems OK. I agree that her birth name should not be reiterated sheet the lead. Per WP:BIRTHNAME, it's appropriate to mention it in lead sentence but no need to repeat it. I'm fine with mentioning her transition in the lead as it was a notable event for this person and the were famous prior to coming out. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 18:02, 23 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This article contradicts another Wikipedia article[edit]

The wikipedia articles on man and male clearly define what those things are; and someone deciding to declare themselves a different sex does not change those definitions. It is possible to be compassionate to people without agreeing with unreasonable beliefs that they hold. Or am I just challenging the "emperor's new clothes" issue of our age, and that is an unacceptable thing to do? LeapUK (talk) 09:44, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@LeapUK: Please see MOS:IDENTITY and the notice at the top of this page. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:43, 25 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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First Dates[edit]

Not sure if this incident should be mentioned: Amy Duncan (16 June 2016). "Kellie Maloney 'axed from First Dates as date felt awkward with her being trans'". Metro News. Retrieved 27 November 2016.--Auric talk 18:06, 27 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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