Talk:New Netherland

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Former good article nominee New Netherland was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Former countries (Rated C-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
Checklist icon
 
WikiProject Netherlands (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Netherlands, an attempt to create, expand, and improve articles related to the Netherlands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject England (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject United States / Delaware (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Delaware (marked as Mid-importance).
 
WikiProject Hudson Valley (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hudson Valley, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Hudson Valley of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
 
WikiProject New Jersey (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is part of WikiProject New Jersey, an effort to create, expand, and improve New Jersey–related articles to Wikipedia feature-quality standard.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Capital District (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Capital District, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Capital District on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject History (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Indigenous peoples of the Americas (Rated B-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of the Americas, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Indigenous peoples of the Americas on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject New York (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject New York City (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Director-General of New Netherland[edit]

This is a list of Directors, appointed by the Dutch West India Company. Only Peter Stuyvesant held the title of Director General. During the restitution to Dutch rule from August 1673 to November 1674, when New Netherland was under the jurisdiction of the City of Amsterdam, the first Dutch 'Governor' was appointed: Anthony Colve.

1624–1664[edit]

Director/Director General From - To
Cornelis Jacobszoon May 1624 – 1625
Willem Verhulst 1625 – 1626
Peter Minuit 1626 – 1632
Sebastiaen Jansen Krol 1632 – 1633
Wouter van Twiller 1633 – 1638
Willem Kieft 1638 – 1647
Petrus Stuyvesant 1647 – 1664

Have chosen to remove this list from info box due to the complexity as described above. As with New Netherland in Dutch language, Director General can be written with or without hyphen.Djflem (talk) 20:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

1609-1667[edit]

Djflem just made an edit in the "Dutch colony" info box, changing the dates from 1614-1664 to 1609-1667. I think this is dubious, to say the least. The fact that Hudson re-discovered the area in 1609 on an expedition financed by the VOC does not constitute the start of the colony, if only because the first Company to receive (in 1614) a charter to trade with the area was not the VOC, but the New Netherland Company (as the article correctly states). I think the start date should be the date of first settlement (which actually was later than 1614). As to the end date: of course, the colony officially changed hands only in 1667, but it had de facto fallen into English hands in 1664 and been governed by England since. I think we should not be too punctilious about legalities. In any case, these points are up for debate. I think it is not correct to put such important edits into the article, without putting them first up for discussion.--Ereunetes (talk) 22:22, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Dates of New Netherland[edit]

Below is rough chronology dates which may be relevent to a discussion of the beginning/ending of New Netherland. Since the matter is complicated (just as that of the Director, Director-General, and Governor) it seems trying to chose a date to conform to an infox would be unnecessary and always arbitrary. Information can be found in article itself so the reader can determine if its important. I suggest scrapping it altogether.

Djflem (talk) 22:15, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

English[edit]

This may only bother me and I certainly will not make any changes based on my feelings BUT many times an English translation of a Dutch word is used when it would make more sense to this English speaking reader if the modern English word was either used or added parenthetically. It is good to know the Dutch named and called the Hudson the North and the Delaware the South Rivers. But when writing about where a trading post was established it's better to use the modern English name. Use of the Dutch name would be preferable to an English translation, I know little about this colony but I'll bet the Dutch didn't use the title South River they used Zuyd Rivier. Nitpyck (talk) 16:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Good article[edit]

I add this tag on talk page as it seems this article is in quite good shape but needing some extra help to it to becoming a GA. The above English/Dutch placenaming consistency issue could be resolved, the dates infobos could be resolved (a list or important dates rather than just two perhaps?), map in infobox could identify less arbitrary selection of settlements (or hone in on Hudson River with New Sweden inset?). The absence of a discusssion of slavery is glaring, and am looking at adding some text in society section. Any movement in this direction would be of great help.Djflem (talk) 13:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Nine Men[edit]

I've just created an article on a British film called Nine Men, and have found on looking at the What Links Here page that it's created literally hundreds of links to the New Netherland template --->

I assume this must have been a redlink as there's no other article with this title, but as I have absolutely no knowledge of New Netherland I can't disambiguate the template entry as I wouldn't have any idea what an appropriate dab would be. Maybe someone au fait with the subject could do it? Thanks. Draggleduck (talk) 06:24, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Pinkster a spring festival?[edit]

As far as I am aware, we don't celebrate spring during 'Pinkster'. 'Pinksteren', as we call it nowadays, is rather the Dutch name for Pentecost. It may have been turned into a spring celebration or adapted to replace something of the native culture, but at least originally it hasn't been about spring. Qense (talk) 10:16, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

  • "at least originally it wasn't about spring" Hurmata (talk) 18:19, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Need editing help[edit]

While editing another article, I tried to add a link to this article, and had a problem. When I tried to link text to this article, the text was replaced by a New Netherlands series box. Although I'm a veteran editor, I'm not a power user. How do I avoid this problem? Secondly, how can I separately display the series box? Hurmata (talk) 18:16, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

w/o seeing what happened can suggest trying New Netherland w/o the "s" (The Netherlands exists, but New Nethrlands not), using these brackets [....]], as opposed to these {...}} Good luckDjflem (talk) 22:20, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Sports uniforms[edit]

I reverted an edit to the Lore section that added a lot detail about the history of the uniform colors of the NY Mets. I don't think that this article is the right place for details sports uniform history. If there's some disagreement about the source of the Mets' colors, they should just be removed from the section. Even if the Mets draw their colors from the Dodgers and Giants, but it seems more likely than not that the Dodgers and Giants drew their colors from the New York flag. In that case, the observation that the Mets colors match the colors of New Netherland's flag seems completely apposite. Fitnr (talk) 18:53, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. In that case, the Mets' uniform colors should be removed from the article completely, as neither the Giants nor the Dodgers drew their colors from the New York flag. The Giants' colors were actually orange and black, while the Dodgers were blue and a little red, and neither black nor red appear on the flag. The Mets took a Dodgers' cap (blue cap with a white "B") and a Giants' cap (black cap with an orange "NY") and combined them (blue cap with an orange "NY"). In fact, the "NY" logo on the Mets' cap is the exact same shape (and color) as the "NY" logo on the Giants' cap. 24.9.74.139 (talk) 19:22, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
It seems likely that the Mets took the colors from the Dodgers and Giants that matched the flag. Right now the article only states that the Mets' colors match the flag, which is true. I think that can stay as is, unless there's evidence that the Mets founders definitely did not think about the matching the colors of the Knicks and the New York City and state flags. Fitnr (talk) 01:03, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Neither the Giants nor the Dodgers took their colors from the flag. You remember what the teams looked like, don't you? Look at the current uniforms of the San Francisco Giants and the Los Angeles Dodgers. Except for the fact that the letters now spell "San Francisco" or "Los Angeles," the uniforms used today are the same as they were when the teams played in New York City. The Giants are mostly black, with orange trim. If you look at it, there is nothing in the uniform that would suggest the NY flag. Same with the Dodgers; if anything it reminds one of the US flag. (Former Dodger Steve Garvey actually said that when he puts on a Dodgers uniform, he thinks of himself as wearing a US flag.) If Wikipedia allowed us to post photos, I would show you a photo of a NY Giants cap, a Bkln Dodgers cap, and a NY Mets cap. The Mets cap looks like they took the "NY" from the Giants cap (it's the same color AND font) and put it on a Dodgers cap. It is very obvious that that is where the Mets colors come from. They certainly wouldn't have taken the colors from the NY Knickerbockers basketball, team, either. The NBA was not yet a big-time sport when the Mets uniforms were unveiled in 1962. In fact, I once saw the NY Knicks play the Boston Celtics in a high school gym in Bristol, Connecticut in 1972. 24.9.74.139 (talk) 17:52, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
Okay, Here is the NY Times article, November 17, 1961, page 47. It clearly states that the Mets took their team colors from "Dodger blue" and "Giant orange." There is no mention at all in the article about the New York flag or the colors of New Netherland. Now, will anyone believe me? http://search.proquest.com/docview/115298414/13C0B58B4E324B48315/4?accountid=14503 128.138.65.119 (talk) 15:38, 4 February 2013 (UTC)