User talk:Rjanag

Archives

1: August–October 2008 2: November 2008 3: December 2008 4: January–February 2009 5: March–April 2009 6: May–July 2009 7: August–December 2009 8: January–May 2010 9: June 2010 – present

Click here to leave me a message saying I'm great, or here to leave me a message saying I'm terrible.
Click here to leave me any other kind of message.
Please sign your message by typing ~~~~ after it.

July 2009 Ürümqi riots

Hey, that's great its at FAC, nice work! :) To be honest, I don't have opinion on the flag use - I added the reactions as they came in and flags made it easier as is the case with many other articles, so reading your comment I agree it makes it easier visually, rather than a load of text. But noting the other users concerns, it would make sense to either change them to the "link alt" thing. Bolding is fine but I think I prefer the first option, though I'm happy with either outcome. Sorry I'm not much use, I'm not really familiar with Wikipedia policies in this respect! Midway (talk) 23:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

• As only admins can do this, can you please set up an {{editnotice}} and eject the stuff which is currently seen at the top of the article when in edit mode? Cheers. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 04:43, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
  • Good idea, I'll get to it right away. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 05:13, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
    • fix "titlesof" to "titles of" :) Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 05:24, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Was it you who changed the italicisation of BBC News, etc? If so, was it at the prompting of any FAC comment? AFAIK, italics are usually reserved for traditional (ie paper) journals etc. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 01:34, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Not sure. I changed all instances of BBC News, etc., to |work= (from |publisher= or |agency=) because that seemed to be what Template:cite news suggested. Based on my reading of it, it sounded like |agency= is only supposed to be used for the agency that wrote and supplied the article (i.e., it's sort of a replacement for |author=) and generally only when that differs from the newspaper/website where we found it (for example, a China Daily article that says the source is Xinhua, or something on ABC news that says the source is AP). Anyway, long story short, the italicization is probably a result of that change.

Of course, I haven't been working with this template for a long time so perhaps that is not the consensus on how things should be used. But that's what the documentation makes it sound like, so if the consensus is different we should probably update the documentation. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:57, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, '|work=' does italicise. I'll go and sort them out. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 02:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

July 2009 Ürümqi riots info for Chinese views

Sorry about not getting back to you sooner. I didn't do much wiki editing over the break, but I've been doing way too much eding for the Haiti earthquake articles over the last week. I put together some info that could be used on this temporary page User:David_Straub/urumqiriotsedit. I think the main problem with the Urumqi riots at the moment is that it includes almost no information concerning government claims that the riots were orchestrated by a terrorist separatist group in Xinjiang. I don't believe the claims of the government, but most Chinese do. I think that adding one section that explains the views of the government by using articles from mouthpiece sources such as the China Daily would both informative and at least alleviate some of the concerns of Chinese that their views be heard. But I won't worry that this is endorsing their views. I think it is just more likely to reveal how ridiculous their claims are. Review what I put together and let me know what you think/want to do with it. I'm a little busy right now, so if you want to add some of the text to the main article, feel free to do so.

Actually, I down loaded an pirated copy of Colin Legerton's book, but I didn't read it yet. He's in CEUS. I took a class with him last year.

Take care. David Straub (talk) 20:49, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for putting this together. To be honest, right now it looks like most of that information is more appropriate in the East Turkestan Islamic Movement article, as most of it is about ETIM and the history of ETIM rather than its putative involvement in the riots, and many of the China Daily/Xinhua articles you found don't actually say much about the riots beyond what's already in the WP article:

• Xinjiang riot hits regional anti-terror nerve just says that WUC might be affiliated with ETIM. (And that statement is sourced to Rohan Gunarata, about whom I remember Gardner Bovingdon had some titillating things to say ;) ). Other than the WUC-ETIM connection, it has little to say about the July riots.
• World Uyghur Congress behind Xinjiang violence: expert Just says that WUC instigated the riot, which is already detailed in the WP article (mostly in the second paragraph of the "immediate causes" section). I recall there used to be more about this in the article (I think there was a whole paragraph on stuff like the "something big will happen" phone conversation, or whatever (update: after some digging, it looks like I removed the "do something big" because the sentence it was in was plagiarized, and I never got around to re-adding it)), and it was gradually trimmed down as time gave us better perspective on all of it. This particular China Daily piece would be a useful reference to add to the section, but I don't think it has a lot of actual new content that needs to be added.
• Urumqi riots part of plan to help Al-Qaida Says that the riots were instigated by separatists and that WUC is affiliated with Al-Qaeda. The first point is already in the article; the second can be added.
• Al-Qaeda threatens Chinese abroad: covered in the International Reactions section

rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 21:07, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Made some additions, mostly of the terrorist connection stuff (since I think the rest of the stuff is either already covered, or more appropriate in the ETIM article which is now linked from this section). To be honest, for most of the summer I was pretty much ignoring the terrorism stuff because POV-pushers repeatedly trying to add the article to "Terrorism" and "Terrorist attacks" categories were leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Looking back now, it does look like you're correct to point out that some of that has gotten left out of the article, but at the same time I think there's only so much that can be said (essentially "the government says the riots were premeditated by terrorists and they're connected with international terrorist networks) and I don't think a whole section can be made out of it without repeating ourselves a lot. (Or becoming a mouthpiece for the crazy speculative stuff that was going on in forums in July, like "the rioters had sneakers on so they must have been PLANNING to riot"). rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 21:27, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

The article looks much better. Good job. I think the material added does balance out the article. We don't have to respect the views of the Chinese government and most Chinese, but it is important that their views are at least represented.David Straub (talk) 02:37, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I agree that it looks better, and I appreciate your taking the effort to find that material (and to press me to get it cleaned up!). Best, rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 02:44, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

July 2009 Ürümqi riots (Vmenkov)

Thanks for the invitation to comment on that article, but, after reading it, I don't think I can suggest any meaningful improvement or offer any meaningful criticism.

Well, OK, there is this one sentence, with a reference to a paper by Dru Gladney: "China's minority policy treats Uyghurs as a 'national minority' rather than an indigenous group." I am sure Dr. Gladney's paper (which I did not look at) probably explains what is meant by these words - he is a major writer on these issues, after all. But to a casual reader this statement sounds rather cryptic. I think that to an average person an "indigenous group" simply is an "ethnic minority" that is officially recognized as having a long-term association with a certain geographic area, and is officially granted certain special rights on account of that association. One would think that the (official) status of the Weiwu'er minzu in PRC -- with the XUAR on the maps, a 维吾尔民族简史 publsihed, an official bilingualism of sorts, and the policy of appointing members of the "titular nationality" to the (possibly figurehead) leadership positions in the region -- makes them just as "officially indigenous" to the region as the Nisga'a are to the Nass River Valley or the Buryats to Buryatia. So if I were to write this, I would perhaps try to explain what Gladney's dichotomy means.

Thinking of it, the preceding sentence "Uyghurs believe their ancestors were indigenous to the area, whereas government policy considers present-day Xinjiang to have belonged to China since the Han Dynasty", with its "whereas", implies a contradiction of the two point of views, even if it does not explicitly say that there is one. I certainly can imagine some kind of 维吾尔民族简史 talking about 我国维吾尔民族 happily living in the area in 100 BC (or wherever), in such-and-such commandery of the Western Han Dynasty empire...

Please feel free to ignore these comments, or to move them to an appropriate talk page elsewhere.

On an unrelated issue: could you insert proper Uyghur letters into Musa Sayrami, Yaqub Beg, Afaq Khoja, and Muzat River, sometimes when/if you have a chance? Official bilingualism or not, my Atlas of Xinjiang certainly does not have any 少数民族文字 in it! Vmenkov (talk) 12:05, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

That's a good point, it is a very complex paper, and I've kind of taken the sentence out of context (I was trying to avoid giving Gladney too much weight by going into a ton of detail on it). I'll try to see if I can explain it better—it's always tough to strike a balance between brevity and clarify!

By the way, I've had a go at the Uyghur names. Some require a bit of guesswork, since Romanizations of Uyghur are not consistent throughout history (for example, the "a" in "Muzat River" could be either ئا or ئە, which in ULY are written a and e respectively but have often just both been written a). The only one I couldn't figure out just yet is Musa Sayrami (it could just be that the macrons are confusing me, but also it's a pretty old name), so I might have to ask a friend for help with that one. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 17:28, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for Syrami and others! I was surprised to see that for Muza(r)t there are two spellings - with and without an r - in Uyghur as well; I thought it was an artefact of careless transcriptions. And there is even an interwiki, ug:مۇزات دەرياسى - of course, to a perfectly empty page! Vmenkov (talk) 01:16, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Hm, you are probably right then. I pretty much just guessed Uyghur names based on the Latin transcriptions and on the Chinese, which often (but not always) are derived from the Uyghur in a more or less systematic way. I hadn't even noticed the interwiki. But now that you've pointed that out, I corrected the Muzat transcription to match what's in the interwiki, which is more reliable. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 01:58, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Does this help clarify the Gladney quote? rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 00:03, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks; I guess it makes a bit more sense now: it implies to the reader that (according to Gladney, at least) recognizing an ethnic group as an "indigenous" one would require the transfer of land ownership /land control to a governing body specifically representing that ethnic group (and not just linguistic/cultural autonomy, availability of bilingual education, affirmative action, etc within the ethnic group's traditional territory). In other words, no Nisga'a Treaty, or even Gwaii Haanas National Park for the Uyghurs. (One can wonder how common this kind of recognition is world-wide, outside of the US and Canadian Indian bands that have appropriate treaties with their respective federal governments. E.g. Basques are certainly "indigenous" to the Basque Country, and the region has a high degree of autonomy, with its government actively promoting the Basque language and culture. But I am pretty sure that any Spanish citizen residing in the region, regardless of ethnicity, has equal right to purchase land, or to vote for / be elected to local governments controlling the land use... But in any event, such a discussion would be a topic for the Indigenous peoples article, and not for the article in question). Vmenkov (talk) 02:42, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

FAC-thought (Urumqi-riots)

I'm thinking... just in case the FAC goes through... We're gonna have to find a picture that's suitable for the front-page... I don't think any of the ones we have right now are good for that... (unless you want the damn map, but that'd be kinda cheesy...) Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 03:41, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Hm... I bet we could grab a screenshot from Ccyber's video? rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 04:18, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Well... there is this: File:WLMQ Cellphone screenshots 2v1.jpg. Or was that deemed too extreme or inappropriate for some reason? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 04:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it's inappropriate; mainly we just removed it when the video became available, since the video is the better option. (I don't know if they've ever used video for the TFA image, though.) All in all, I think something from that video is the only thing in the article that would really work. For example, the picture of the APCs in September looks good and rioty, but it's not from the actual riots (and we wouldn't want to be accused of making the same sort of flubs that people made in July showing pictures of the wrong riots), plus I think there would be an anti-China POV issue with showing a picture of the crackdown and not showing a picture of the riots. The picture of Kadeer, of course, is a no go since she's just the scapegoat (I'm sure the PRC government would be overjoyed, though, if we put that picture on the front page with the riots article :P). And yeah, other than that all that's really left is the map, and as you say it would be a bit cheesy...plus I think Raul doesn't like using flags and maps.

I think the screenshots already uploaded are a bit small, since it's really four crammed into one. But we could probably hold a brief discussion on what part of the video we want to take, and then have a tech-y person get a higher-resolution screenshot of that. (I don't think we need to worry about taking care of that, though, until the FAC is over :) ) rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 04:35, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

True. Just putting this into one more brain before it escapes mine :P Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 05:21, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Pick a frame, and I'll get you a high-res image. Just give me the time in milliseconds. :) -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 05:23, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Report on Laogai Enterprises

Hi Rjanag, How can this be used for Wikipedia? Kind regards, Sarcelles (talk) 16:54, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

East Asian languages#Syntax

I have added a Vietnamese entry to match the other three examples given, but I have no idea on how to explain which variant characters are used, and how many have limited Unicode support. There are obviously characters that are more preferable to others, but most would be unable to have them displayed correctly. Do you have any idea on how I can get around this? My meddling can be found at User:Benlisquare/Sandbox2#Viet if you are interested. Cheers, -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 05:10, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Urumqi riots

It's infuriating, this linkrot. The lack of archiving by those archiving sites we use, also. If we kept copies of the articles on our hard disk, at least we can still refer to them although they will no longer be available publicly. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 00:58, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

That's what I've been thinking too. The "Missing Link" article I was able to find (half of) cached on Google, and saved it while I still could...that article in particular is cited a lot so I figured it would be good to keep. One of the other dead ones I couldn't find on Google. I've tried to archive some of the pages using webcite, but I'm not sure if they all worked (one worked when I tried it out, another sat around loading for hours and never did open); webcite would be better than just saving them to the hard drive, since then readers can get it too, but I'm not sure how reliable it is. rʨanaɢ (talk) 01:26, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I think webcite is good enough, if the coverage is there. Anyway, it's better than nothing, and I'm thankful its around. I've seen it used extensively in some articles, such as Question Time British National Party controversy. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 04:02, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Pardon

Regarding [1]: nerdiness deserves praise, not pardon! Actually that quote is what I thought of when I read his question, too. — Knowledge Seeker দ 17:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Law of Malta

Fair enough. Zweifel (talk) 22:02, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Was Abdul Haq (ETIM) the same as Abdul Haq (Uyghur camp leader)?

You asked User Iqinn whether Abdul Haq (ETIM) was the same as Abdul Haq (Uyghur camp leader).

Thomas Joscelyn has asserted that Abdul Haq (ETIM) was the same individual who lead the Uyghur camp, and that he was the manager of a Uyghur guest house. To the best of my knowledge, all claims that the two individuals are the same can be traced to Joscelyen.

I've wondered whether we should regard Josceleyn as a WP:RS. He is not, to the best of my knowledge, a professional commentator. He is not, to the best of my knowledge, an academic who has studied politics, or military matters, or intelligence, or the law. He is not, to the best of my knowledge, someone who was a respected columnist or journalist, prior to starting to blog on the GWOT. He is not, to the best of my knowledge, a former intelligence officer.

It seems to me that he is just some guy who has taken the time to read the same documents I have. On a personal level I don't consider his conclusions any more reliable than I regard my own. Frankly, if I was a blogger I would blog in an intellectually honest manner. I'd never simply leave off from informing my readers of exculpatory information. Joscelyn does this all this time. His claim that the two Abdul Haq(s) are one individual being a case in point. While he informs his readers that some of Uyghurs reported their camp leader was named Abdul Haq he neglects to inform them that the Ugyhurs say he was killed during the American aerial bombardment, back in 2001.

On the other hand, some legitimate journalists do cite him in their articles. And he has been invited to testify before at least one US Congressional committee.

Abdul Haq is clearly a very common name. On a personal level I suspect that the several hundred, or several thousance, Uyghur exiles in the region probably included many individuals known as Abdul Haq.

Intelligence analysts have described the ETIM as a well-organized and dangerous militant group. If Abdul Haq (Uyghur camp leader) was really the 2nd in command of the ETIM, then it is hard to understand how the ETIM could have been as dangerous as intelligence analysts feared. How dangerous could the group have been if the ETIM's 2nd in command, and those he was leading, were armed with just a single AK-47?

So should Abdul Haq (ETIM) say he also lead the Uyghur camp in Nangarhar? IMO it should certainly not assert this as a fact. It should not assert this as a claim of US intelligence analysts. I have no objection to the Abdul Haq (ETIM) article stating that Thomas Joscelyn asserts he also lead the Nangarhar camp.

If this assertion is included, attributed to Josceylen, should it note that he was reported KIA in 2009, while the Nangarhar camp leader was reported KIA in 2001? I dunno. Geo Swan (talk) 23:05, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Robert Krentz

I suggested some alternative hooks for the Robert Krentz DYK nomination. Would love it if you'd take another look. :-) Thanks! —Rnickel (talk) 18:16, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Template:Vowels with audio

Thanks for the fixes. I saw the error with the link to .ogg, and found you fixed that too. -Stevertigo (w | t | e) 04:01, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

IPA article

I agree with the first revert, as I did not pay attention to what code came through subclusion. I filed a bug recently, https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23388 regarding hatnote issues.

I agree with the second revert, though I will point out that the section does need expanding. Please see also recent discussion on wikien about IPA, in particular, comments negative toward IPA and, by default, in support of that Wikipedia:Pronunciation respelling key. PS: The issue with phonology vs. pronunciation is one of excess information, which is why I think there is resistance to IPA per se. -Stevertigo (w | t | e) 04:34, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

The Arena (MMA) Page Most Definitely Not Spam

Rjanag,

Please explain in detail why you think this page is spam. You recently deleted it saying it was blatant advertising. You are incorrect in this assumption. The page accurately describes a noteworthy gym in one of the fastest growing sports in the world. If this page is spam, then every other page describing all the other noteworthy mixed martial arts facilities described in Wikipedia should be described as spam as well and also deleted.

If you have suggestions for improvement, then kindly provide them on a page that is completely factual. Otherwise, please do not try to re-delete the page or I will think you have some personal bias against the gym specifically. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmasource (talk • contribs) 08:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Please actually read the links that have been given to you. The reason I nominated the page was because you provided no third-party sources to explain why the gym meets Wikipedia's notability requirements. rʨanaɢ (talk) 14:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Last edit of The Dark Knight (film)

Why did you undo my edit of The Dark Knight (film)? Your edit made the page say, "The Dark Knight is a 2008 superhero directed and co-written by Christopher Nolan." I changed it to say that it is a "2008 superhero film directed and co-written by Christopher Nolan." The movie is a "superhero film," not a "superhero.".-5- (talk) 18:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Apologies, it looks like I misread the diff. rʨanaɢ (talk) 20:22, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I Have Provided 3rd Party Sources that Meet Notability Requirements

Rjanag,

Not sure if you actually read through the updates I recently included in the page you just reverted, but there are 2 additional citations from Sherdog, the largest MMA news site in the world, and an actual newspaper article that came out last night regarding one of the fighters/trainers at The Arena. Additionally, I have included links from both Sherdog.com and Mixedmartialarts.com that list The Arena as an official team site, which is hard to do unless you are one. So kindly stop getting into an edit war and claiming there aren't 3rd party verification when there are right on the page.

Additionally, since you are the one who deleted The Arena MMA page in the first place, please read the following I wrote to another Wikipedia user who got involved in this whole deletion situation. I think if you actually take the time you read my response, as well as visit all the links I have provided in this repsonse, you will realize you are in error in attempting to delete this page. Thanks.

Benlisquare,

I apologize in advance if I am not following all protocols with your Talk page, but I am relatively new to Wikipedia and am not completely familiar with certain things like how to best communicate on the Talk pages and the different users who contribute to them. Since you clearly are an expert in this area, please help me correct whatever issues I need to do in the future.

As far as your concerns/comments, as well as those of others, I am a bit surprised. I created the page on The Arena because I am an avid follower of MMA and The Arena is one of the fastest growing MMA teams in the country and deserves inclusion in Wikipedia on these merits. Particularly given the fact that many of the MMA teams listed in Wikipedia are no longer as notable as The Arena is because the sport is so dynamic and much of the information regarding these teams and their fighters is non-current. Also, my interest in The Arena and its fighters qualifies me as a supporter of the gym/team, not as a conflict of interest.

As far as how I set up the page and what I included, I attempted to follow the format used for the other MMA team pages included in Wikipedia so The Arena MMA page would best fit in. So, if The Arena MMA page is promotional, then I imagine the other MMA team pages should be included in that category as well.

As far as verification of The Arena and its athletes...

1. The team is young and most newspapers do not cover much of MMA. In fact, I honestly do not think newspapers qualify as a reliable source for MMA info as much is reformatted from other sources. However, having said that, you can find recent mention of The Arena and its team members like Olympic Silver Medalist Stephen Abas at the following locations.

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/04/07/1887820/ex-dog-abas-sets-mma-dates-at.html

http://www.visaliatimesdelta.com/article/20100506/SPORTS/5060314/Olympic-silver-medalist-Stephen-Abas-successful-in-mixed-martial-arts-debut

Additionally, I have included several other online mentions of The Arena from sites that are more relevant to MMA such as:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=news.detail&gid=228200

http://www.mmamania.com/2010/4/2/1402864/2004-olympic-silver-medalist

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Olympic-Silver-Medalist-Abas-Signs-with-Tachi-Palace-Fights-23624

http://www.doseofmma.com/3700/rani-yahya-constrictor-bjj-hl/

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/12-Questions-for-Cris-Cyborg-Santos-22251

2. There are also numerous videos available online of various fighters representing The Arena during their fights, notably Diego Sanchez (who has The Arena logo on his shorts, shirt, and banner) during his most recent fight against BJ Penn on 12/12/2009, as well as Cris "Cyborg" Santos during her last Strikeforce title defense against Marloes Coenen on 1/30/2010. These fights can be found online. Additionally, the UFC Countdown Video Segment for Diego Sanchez that was aired nationally on Spike TV prior to the fight was conducted at The Arena and clearly showed The Arena in the segment.

3. There are also other videos available on The Arena's website itself, as well as YouTube, from third parties such as Bad Boy Brands that show fighters such as Demian Maia (UFC) and Diego Sanchez (UFC) training at The Arena. These videos can be found here at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHEXvWGfnYA&NR=1 and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy1VNA7YLWQ and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx3IXyqXiLI

Additionally, there are videos actually produced by The Arena that clearly show Fabricio Camoes (UFC), Rodrigo Nogueira (UFC), Rani Yahya (WEC), Royler Gracie (4x BJJ world champ), Joe Duarte (Bellator), etc. training at The Arena. These videos are located at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xrUSGWN0BA and: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lI8tccuxw

4. Finally, both mixedmartialarts.com (the official resource for all MMA fighter records) and sherdog.com (the largest, most recognized, and one of the oldest MMA sites in existence) has The Arena listed as an offical team. You can find the links here at:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=home.link and:

http://www.sherdog.com/links

These two sites are tightly controlled and will not allow links to team sites that are not official and recognizable.

Given all this evidence that you can judge for yourself if you take the time to visit all the sites I have provided, particularly the online video locations (seeing is believing), I cannot understand how anyone could not regard The Arena MMA page as legitimate, as well as the actual gym itself.

I don't know how much the Wikipedia members who commented on the legitimacy of The Arena MMA page actually know about the sport of MMA, but there is absolutely no way these types of MMA athletes would be involved with The Arena if it was not 100% legitimate and deserving of recognition. Even independent Yelp reviewers mention this fact (see here at: http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-arena-mma-san-diego

Please let me know how to best improve the page if it actually needs to be improved given all the documentation I have just provided. Additionally, please share this information with the other Wikipedia members who made comments on the Talk Page as I am unsure how to communicate with everyone simulataneously.

Thank You,

mmasource

Mmasource (talk) 07:35, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

The Arena (MMA)

Would someone be able to reply to User talk:Benlisquare#The Arena (MMA) Page, and/or maybe propogate it so that everyone is aware of his post? I'll be rather knot-tied tonight, and won't have the time to respond. Regards, -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 07:53, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Just realised it was on your tp as well. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 07:54, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Translational request

Hello, Rjanag. You have new messages at 俠刀行's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

• • 请帮忙，他写的内容我仅有某种程度的理解(大约懂一半)，而且我可能无法用英文回答他。你可以解释他说的话吗？还有他在条目的讨论页上的内容，也请解释给我听。--俠刀行 (talk) 12:29, 7 May 2010 (UTC)
    • 烦！英语维基到底没几个懂中文，这样很难沟通。终于体会到什么叫英语帝国主义了，反正以后的日子都需要靠你帮忙。 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 俠刀行 (talk • contribs) 00:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

New request

告诉用户User:Miranda1989，叫他不要轻举妄动，不要擅自移除模板。我因为一时没空，无法有时间仔细查阅内容。还有，请告诉我哪里可以找到管理员(目前常上线的)，为了避免突然状况，不排除告状并封禁此人。 --俠刀行 (talk) 09:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Rjanag - I can read the text above, so no need to provide a translation. I ask for your assistance not as a translator, but as an experienced administrator.

An individual - 俠刀行 - who by his own admission speaks very little English, has placed a globalization template on the article Battle of Frenchman's Creek. This was a minor battle between American forces and British forces during the War of 1812 and took place on what is now the Canadian shore of the Niagara River. This event involved locally stationed British forces and American forces from the opposite side of the river - there was no global significance and therefore I see no reason for the existence of the globalization template. I've detailed reasons for removing the template on the article's talk page, and invited comments. No comments were received save for one from 俠刀行 himself demanding that it be kept, but not offering any reason. One can not globalize an issue which had no global scope.

In response to the lack of objection, I removed the template only to see 俠刀行 restore it with a demand that it not be removed again, and with the threat above (which I will view as if it were placed on my own talk page).

So, I ask you, as a wise and experienced administrator - how should I respond to a persistent user with whom I can barely communicate, who seems intent on placing a template for a reason which he does not wish to share? I will bow to your advice and offer my thanks. Miranda1989 (talk) 23:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

• 您应该告诉这位用户（Miranda1989），他事先未经过协商就擅自移除国际化模板，这是不礼貌的。尤其是在完全没告知我的情况下，仅仅在那战役的对话页上写出长篇文字，也没考虑到我是否理解。连最基本的告知都没做，非常不好。共识是达成解决问题最基本的要求，在没有协商前也未告知他人，这样做显然有欠妥当。尤其我发现到，他对我的回应似乎置之不理，那到底谁才是"固执的使用者呢"(a persistent user)？--俠刀行 (talk) 05:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

• Hi Rjanag, just to throw my pennies into the ring, too... I've arrived here by way of Battle of Frenchman's Creek and WP:3O. I offered a 3O at Frenchman's Creek, which basically said "wait for Rjanag to reply". Sorry to pass the buck, but I can't see a way for this to resolved without understanding why 俠刀行 feels the tag is appropriate. Cheers, TFOWR^propaganda 03:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

User:Epeefleche/Nicholas Beale

User:Epeefleche/Nicholas Beale, which you userfied, has been nominated for deletion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Epeefleche/Nicholas Beale. Cunard (talk) 00:46, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Maintenance Templates

Rjanag,

Just following up on this maintenance template issue. I have listed numerous 3rd party sources that should take of any issues you had with notability, verification, etc. However, now that I'm learning about Wikipedai protocol more, I'm trying to follow it as closely as possible. Is it OK to take the template down now that there have been numerous verifiable references added to the article? Mmasource (talk) 19:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

No, it's not. The whole purpose of the AfD debate is to determine notability, and the very fact that there is a debate going on is enough to show that this page's notability is under dispute. You are in no position to unilaterally rule that the page is "notable" when you know that numerous editors disagree. Wait for a consensus to form before taking any action on the cleanup template. rʨanaɢ (talk) 22:55, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Maintenance Template Follow-Up

I guess I'm still a little unclear then. On my tp, you said "Please do not remove maintenance templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to The Arena (MMA), without resolving the problem that the template refers to, or giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary." I thought I clearly resolved that problem by adding numerous 3rd party verifications subsequent to WP admins viewing the article and recommending deletion bc there wasn't enough 3rd party verifications. Now there are more than a few. In fact, in reviewing the other Mixed Martial Arts team pages, I noticed I have provided more 3rd party verification sources than almost any other MMA page. Are you saying that these 3rd party verifications are not sufficient, particularly compared to the other pages in the same category. many of which use the same 3rd party verification sources i.e. sherdog.com to establish notability? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmasource (talk • contribs) 00:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Articles on Chinese mayors/deputies ?

Hi Rjanag,

would it make sense to write articles on mayors and deputies rather than labor camps? Kind regards, Sarcelles (talk) 12:03, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

I meant, which would be better concerning human rights. By deputies I meant members of parliament. Sarcelles (talk) 18:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Rjanag. You have new messages at Tim1357's talk page.
Message added 01:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I responded Tim1357 ^talk 01:28, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia malamanteau controversy

Hello, you recently speedily deleted a page I created called Wikipedia_malamanteau_controversy, with the complaints, "Article about an eligible subject, which does not indicate the importance or significance of the subject (CSD A7). no independednt sources cited", however, both complaints are unmerited.

First, I clearly indicated the significance of the topic, with stats directly related to its significance:

"The page for Malamanteau received over 70,000 views[3] and 400[4] talk page edits within 24 hours of the creation of the page."

The wording of the above sentence is a bit ham handed, sure, but that alone doesn't merit deleting the page, forget speedy deletion.

Second, I also provided multiple independent sources. The Reddit page, the Askvile page, and the grok.se page are all independent from the parties involved.

Thanks, 8bit (talk) 18:44, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I linked to WP:Reliable sources. Two of those sources are forums, not reliable sources. The other is part of Wikimedia's toolserver. And per WP:BIG, indiscriminate numbers (of views or edits) do not constitute notability. Wikipedia edit wars and disputes are not notable unless they become the subject of substantial coverage in reliable sources. rʨanaɢ (talk) 18:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)\

How does that meet criteria for speedy deletion? 8bit (talk) 18:54, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I said my piece. If you disagree you can re-create the article and let it go through WP:AFD, although I can assure you that it will meet an overwhelming consensus to delete (based on the reasons I just gave). If you want to waste your time with that, though, I am not going to stop you. rʨanaɢ (talk) 18:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Kay. Commencing time wasting. 8bit (talk) 18:59, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

You are just terrible; not really

You are just needing to see replies on my talkpage! (couldn't resist the link)

Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly.

moɳo 00:40, 15 May 2010 (UTC)