User talk:SounderBruce

Seattle Southside Links

Hey there! I'm the user who added links to the Seattle Southside page for the city pages for Tukwila, SeaTac, and Des Moines. I'm discussing here since there are three different pages in question, so it wouldn't make sense to repeat the talk across three pages. I wanted to reach out to make sure we don't go back and forth on edits on these three pages and can instead find a solution that makes sense for both of us. The Seattle Southside regional designation is recognized across all three cities, and the cities are marketed as a tourist destination under the Seattle Southside Regional Tourism Authority DMO. I can understand wanting citation and marking the additions as citation needed - I'm happy to find reliable sources as needed, in fact, the Tukwila page already links to Seattle Southside's website in a link that far predates my edits. I just want to find a way to include this regional link across the three cities in a way that makes sense. I recognize your expertise in this arena - while my account has been around a while, you'll see I haven't made a ton of edits in Wikipedia, so I definitely have a lot to learn. I do think this information is valuable and worthy of inclusion on all three pages - perhaps not in the summary area at the top of the article as I had originally placed them.

Any guidance you might be able and willing to provide would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!--Sakanaya (talk) 17:59, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

@Sakanaya: Seattle Southside seems to be a marketing term more than an actual geographic distinction. Most reliable sources (like the Seattle Times, News Tribune, various Reporter papers) use "South King" except in sponsored pieces from the tourism agency. I'd be opposed to mentioning it in the articles at all, let alone the lead. SounderBruce 02:41, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Respectfully, I have to disagree with your assessment of Seattle Southside as a pure marketing term. First, the area's business interests are represented by the Seattle Southside Chamber of Commerce ([1]https://www.seattlesouthsidechamber.com/about), a completely separate organization from the Seattle Southside Regional Tourism Authority. This indicates a regional recognition separate from the marketing organization. Further, the Soundside Alliance ([2]https://soundsidealliance.org/about-soundside-alliance/), a business development organization and partnership of the five cities of Burien, SeaTac, Des Moines, Tukwila, and Normandy Park describes the region as the Seattle Southside region repeatedly across their site. I do agree that placing it in the lead was a bad choice, and that I recognize. I am merely working to improve the articles by linking them to their shared regional identity, which while the name, yes, was originally chosen by a marketing organization, it was done with consent, input, and funding from the governments of the cities it markets. Sakanaya (talk) 20:47, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

@Sakanaya: Those links make it clear that Southside is a made-up marketing term that doesn't represent the region at all. The county government does not use it in an official capacity, preferring South King. Local entities use South King in their names (such as South King Fire & Rescue) and local newspapers use it to describe the area (e.g. The Seattle Times). SounderBruce 03:38, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Skinner Building

Hoping you can revisit the Skinner Building article and AfD discussion once I've had more time to expand the entry.

Happy editing! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 20:58, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

@Another Believer: First of all, congratulations on the article and the 500K milestone. It's unfortunate the deletion request had to snowball like this, but I'm of the opinion that splitting an article needs to include a strong justification in the form of original content or clear plans to add them. The number of building stubs about Seattle is exploding and there's only so many hands to help maintain them; I've been too busy to grind my way through them and I imagine others have post-COVID burnout. Cheers, SounderBruce 03:46, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! Are you still of the opinion that there's not enough unique content at Skinner Building (Seattle) to justify a separate entry from 5th Avenue Theatre? I'm sure there's more to add re: changes to building over time, tenants, the chimes, etc, so I'll keep going as I have time and interest. ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:21, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

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DYK Nomination for Global Majority

Hi there, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind revisiting my DYK nomination for Global Majority? I think all your concerns have been addressed and would be grateful if you think it is ready for a green light. —Caorongjin 💬 19:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

DYK for Paseo (restaurant)

On 13 December 2022, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Paseo (restaurant), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that when Seattle sandwich restaurant Paseo abruptly closed, fans left flowers and lit candles? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Paseo (Seattle restaurant). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Paseo (restaurant)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:03, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Restaurants 'n stuff

I'm beginning to think your aside at Daily Dozen -- "I would also ask that other restaurant articles be reviewed for notability, as there seems to be far too many that rely on coverage from listicles published by Thrillist and Eater" -- may need to be acted upon. One way or another I recently bumped into The Misfit (restaurant) and Pip's Original Doughnuts & Chai, and God damn it if they aren't even more absurd than Daily Dozen (hard to believe as that may be). He seems to be going around creating articles about every bar and restaurant that he notices has an online review. It's absurd. A multi-article AfD might be in order. EEng 05:32, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

• @EEng: I think it might be best to determine what sources (and reviewers) are appropriate for determining the notability of a restaurant; I'm not trilled about Thrillist being used (as they seem to be a clickbait listicle site more than anything), so it might be a worthy one to discuss at WP:RSN. SounderBruce 07:32, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

  Don't you think the completely trivial nature of the coverage is the key point (even if we take the sources as reliable, for the sake of argument)? EEng 12:25, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

• I've also been long concerned about the quality of sourcing on these – they include primarily brief mentions in local listicles and routine local reviews that don't actually distinguish restaurants as notable. AB has now created roughly 20-25% of all US restaurant articles, and with that about 17% of US restaurants are in Portland! Quite a few have been at AFD before though a minority have been deleted since it forces him to dig for better sources. Thrillist etc. aren't necessarily unreliable, but it's not really encyclopedically significant to include such brief listings as content or toward notability. I nominated Daily Dozen the first time and am still concerned about how few sources are more than a couple sentences, but unlike most restaurant articles there's certainly a preponderance of them, including some that aren't strictly local (mainly due to its location in the market). I've haven't voted there yet to avoid the drama though. Please – stop bludgeoning the process, few comments there are actually that productive. Reywas92^Talk 14:22, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

  What you're saying is pretty much what I was saying just above: even if we assume the reliability of the sources (though, for all I know, that may be a problem as well) the coverage is not just not significant, but so superficial as to be laughable. I mean, is it really possible that there's an editor who thinks Example text actually belongs in an article?

  Anyway, I'll make you a deal: I'll stop testing the limits of editors' willingness to make fools of themselves at Daily Dozen (fun though it's been) if you'll go vote. Since we've now got editors arguing that WP:SIGOV should simply be ignored, a deep analysis isn't required. EEng 14:47, 16 December 2022 (UTC)