Talk:Parkland high school shooting

serial killer tag

Last I checked, mass murder doesn't equate serial killing so why is this page in that category? (using FBI definition here) Creeper Ninja (talk) 15:46, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

It is in the categories on this talk page and I will remove it unless anyone objects. Mass shootings, where all of the deaths occur at the same place and time with no cooling off period, are not serial killings.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:41, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

It's also possible that other mass shootings are categorized similarly, and should also be removed, though I confess it seems too large a (potential) problem for a humble article talkpage. Creeper Ninja (talk) 18:07, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

The use of terrorism categories is also a problem here. This implies some sort of political or religious motive and per the article text and previous discussions about this issue, there isn't a motive of this kind. These could go too.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:23, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

Within the US the FBI has declared (and afaik its generally agreed) that mass shootings (especially school shootings) are terrorist attacks (usually domestic). In addition I'm not aware of motive requirements for any crime, though sometimes intent is an issue. Creeper Ninja (talk) 23:06, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

The article Terrorism says "Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentional violence for political or religious purposes." There have been attempts at 2017 Las Vegas shooting to say that it was a terrorist attack, but the police said that they did not believe that there was a political or religious motive. This risks creating confusion; Timothy McVeigh was a clear example of a terrorist, Stephen Paddock was not. The FBI defines domestic terrorism as "Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature."[1] There is a lack of evidence that the Stoneman Douglas shooting had any motive in these areas.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:56, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Serial Killer task force does not only cover serial killers. Per the scope: "The goal of this task force is to update and maintain all articles relating to serial killers, mass murderers, and spree killers." Dimadick (talk) 10:18, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Status of Cruz

Re this edit: it is problematic because it describes him as the perperator, then describes him as the suspect, which is still his official status. It was previously discussed here. There is a WP:BLPCRIME issue here, despite what some people may say, as he is awaiting trial.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 22:08, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Who committed the shooting?

I understand this wiki wants to be as neutral as possible. Thus, to label this as a criminal incident would be premature without a conviction. However, there can be no doubt that Nikolas Cruz committed this shooting. Whether that's a crime is for the courts to decide (Cruz might have legally been insane, or perhaps it wasn't even a crime to begin with), but there is zero doubt who did it. Consider this: no one speaks of the 'alleged' gunmen re Columbine or Sandy Hook, despite no one having been convicted for their role in the shootings, so why should we be any different here? It seems like a double standard imo. We should either write 'alleged' in all cases where no one was convicted or we should just be as fair and objective as the evidence allows. - Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.4.151 (talk • contribs) 19:19, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

The key difference with Columbine and Sandy Hook is that Cruz is still alive and facing trial. This means that WP:BLPCRIME applies.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 20:41, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Here's the discussion that precipitated this. [2] Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 18:41, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Cruz said he is Jewish

Despite his anti-Semitism, Cruz claimed his biological mother was Jewish: https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/242098 (Derscht (talk) 20:10, 20 October 2021 (UTC))

This is Original Research to apply anything other than a trivial notice to this. Your source is questionable. This is trivia. It should not be in the article unless it is something that receives significant coverage.--Jorm (talk) 20:20, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

It is very notable in view of his far right and anti-Semitic views. (Derscht (talk) 20:22, 20 October 2021 (UTC))

It is not notable. If it were notable, a reliable source would have written about it. It is absolutely not worthy of inclusion. Jorm (talk) 20:24, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

This site details whether Heydrich, Lenin, Manstein and Rosenberg were of Jewish descent. (Derscht (talk) 20:47, 20 October 2021 (UTC))

Are those people named Cruz? If not, then what we say about them - if we say anything at all - is of exactly zero relevance. Jorm (talk) 21:26, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

It was his mother who was Jewish, not his father. (Derscht (talk) 21:37, 20 October 2021 (UTC))

That changes exactly nothing. You have failed to a) show that it's actually true (that source is dubious); b) show that it's notable for inclusion (it's not, otherwise there would be more sources) or c) shown why it is WP:DUE for inclusion.

I suggest that you read WP:OR and WP:OTHER as well as WP:DUE. Jorm (talk) 21:40, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

It's running into problems with WP:FRINGE and WP:DUE. If this was an important factor in the case, it would be easy to find various reliable sources that mention it.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:12, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

His birth mother's name has been reported by the Associate Press, and other local papers, and it's mega, mega-non-Jewish sounding. Also see the conversation about this here, pre-identification. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 17:52, 21 October 2021 (UTC)