Talk:The Sengol: Difference between revisions
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::* Alternatively how this will look {{talkquote| 1947-Sengol / Sengol (1947) (IAST: ceṅkōl) is the gold-plated silver sceptre, installed in India's new Parliament House. ..}}? |
::* Alternatively how this will look {{talkquote| 1947-Sengol / Sengol (1947) (IAST: ceṅkōl) is the gold-plated silver sceptre, installed in India's new Parliament House. ..}}? |
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::For separate article for "Sengols since historical times" we would need relevant [[WP:RS]], my google books study suggest that likely be possible by including Kannada and Tamil sources and can be tried in draft namespace. Mean while simple 'Sengol' title can be redirected to [[Sceptre#India|Sceptre#India]]. What other editors think? [[User:Bookku| Bookku ]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 07:19, 9 June 2023 (UTC) |
::For separate article for "Sengols since historical times" we would need relevant [[WP:RS]], my google books study suggest that likely be possible by including Kannada and Tamil sources and can be tried in draft namespace. Mean while simple 'Sengol' title can be redirected to [[Sceptre#India|Sceptre#India]]. What other editors think? [[User:Bookku| Bookku ]] ([[User talk:Bookku|talk]]) 07:19, 9 June 2023 (UTC) |
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:::{{tq|Alternatively how this will look}} - Stupid. |
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:::Anyway, can you suggest a couple of sources from your "google books study" that attests to the evidence of a Sengol tradition in Chola spans, as has been claimed by the incumbent government in India? Btw, I am glad that you have changed your atrocious signature. [[User:TrangaBellam|TrangaBellam]] ([[User talk:TrangaBellam|talk]]) 08:41, 9 June 2023 (UTC) |
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== Who funded 1947 Sengol? == |
== Who funded 1947 Sengol? == |
Revision as of 08:41, 9 June 2023
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 28 May 2023. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the The Sengol article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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"Deletion Discussion"
"Deletion Discussion"
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so many thing wrong about this article
ChandlerMinh (talk) 12:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
titleI have changed the title from The Sengol to Sengol (sceptre) as per WP:TITLE ChandlerMinh (talk) 13:32, 25 May 2023 (UTC) Fact checkSengol | Evidence thin on government’s claims about the sceptre ChandlerMinh (talk) 05:03, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
not pure goldthe gold used in this about 800 grams. which won't be enough to make a full 5 feet long sceptre. inside is silver. ChandlerMinh (talk) 07:32, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
ConsensusHello editors, @Rahil1610: @Bsskchaitanya: @Lawofoctaves: @TheAafi: @Parimaltek: @Rasnaboy: @Arasksk:@GhostInTheMachine: @Hedgeunkil: @Onel5969: @খাঁ শুভেন্দু: please reach a consensus and kindly don't indulge in mindlessly reverting and changing the content of the page. the page should be neutral and should address both side's arguments. please follow all WP guidelines. ChandlerMinh (talk) 09:48, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
Sengol and TamilsSengol has been a symbol of power and righteousness rule of Tamil kings especially Chozhas. So, sengol is a general object representing a king's rule in historic period and the sengol presented to Nehru is just another Sengol. So, this article sengol must be representing about the general values of sengol rather than the specific Sengol of nehru and this page should not be deleted.... Vishwa Sundar (talk) 16:37, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
Removal of Proposed deletionRationale of nominator: Trivial topic that hugely violates WP:NRVE, since there is no pre-2023 source that describes the sceptre as anything beyond a gift presented to Nehru. Also refer this page. Can be merged with the Indian Parliament page. SubtleChuckle (talk) 15:46, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
My rationale: The Sengol has significant coverage Wikipedia:SIGCOV in recent history for New Parliament building. [1] Even today there was an elaborate ceremony over the handing over of Sengol. Newspapers in India has dedicated articles on the Sengol. A comprehensive WP:AfD can be proposed by the nominator; however this does not quality under PROD. Redtigerxyz Talk 16:59, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
Siva holding Sengolthere are Natraj murtis holding Sengol. So deletion req seems unfair and motivated. Satish-ansingkar (talk) 01:32, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
Add the sengol imagean image of sengol from New Parliament building must be added. Rahil1610 (talk) 02:45, 28 May 2023 (UTC) A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletionThe following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC) |
Indic Script
Why is indic script used in this article? Md. Rayan Alam Rifat (talk) 05:29, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
- Removed. TrangaBellam (talk) 03:34, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Regarding the usage of references from The Wire
To keep Wikipedia articles as NOP it is better to provide sources that are blemished with a history of fake news and propaganda. So, I suggest the editors avoid the usage of The Wire as a credible source and replace it with more reliable alternative ones. Bsskchaitanya (talk) 05:26, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
- See my note at your t/p. TrangaBellam (talk) 03:34, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Feedback
Constructive criticism on my edits is welcome. TrangaBellam (talk) 05:49, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Article title naming and scope mismatch
- This is overall feedback and not feedback for any individual editor edits
Descriptions in short description and about seem to scope-mismatch at topic level itself. Scope in given Short description includes pre-1947 historical Sengols whereas practically this article seem to have coverage for Sengol-(1947) as mentioned in about description.
- {{Short description|Symbolic sceptre in Indian history}}
- {{About|a gold sceptre installed in the Parliament of India..
IMO, if possible, general Sengol article should be separate and need not be overwhelmed by Sengol-(1947). I suggest present article be renamed to similar effect and a new article be created for Sengols since historical times. Bookku (talk) 08:35, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- There exists no scholarship on "Sengols since historical times", to write anything about. TrangaBellam (talk) 08:14, 7 June 2023 (UTC)
- I suggest a revisit first sentence in the article
. Is this the best and factual definition we would introduce to an uninitiated reader with? (*appropriate article a, an, the is minor issue c/e can address).Sengol (IAST: ceṅkōl) is an gold-plated silver sceptre, installed in India's new Parliament House. ..
- Alternatively how this will look
?1947-Sengol / Sengol (1947) (IAST: ceṅkōl) is the gold-plated silver sceptre, installed in India's new Parliament House. ..
- Alternatively how this will look
- For separate article for "Sengols since historical times" we would need relevant WP:RS, my google books study suggest that likely be possible by including Kannada and Tamil sources and can be tried in draft namespace. Mean while simple 'Sengol' title can be redirected to Sceptre#India. What other editors think? Bookku (talk) 07:19, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Alternatively how this will look
- Stupid.- Anyway, can you suggest a couple of sources from your "google books study" that attests to the evidence of a Sengol tradition in Chola spans, as has been claimed by the incumbent government in India? Btw, I am glad that you have changed your atrocious signature. TrangaBellam (talk) 08:41, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- I suggest a revisit first sentence in the article
Who funded 1947 Sengol?
Any info on, Who funded 1947 Sengol? Bookku (talk) 08:52, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
- Obviously, the matha? TrangaBellam (talk) 11:45, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
Keep Introduction NPOV
As per WP:NPOV, at least the Introcuction needs to be kept neutral. As per WP:TALK, let any major edits to Introduction, especially realted to narrative, be first discussed on Talk page RogerYg (talk) 02:52, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Hi User talk:TrangaBellam, I think we should have more neutral language in Introduction instead of talking about certain claims and narratives: "In 2023, incumbent prime minister Narendra Modi propagated an ahistorical narrative, claiming the Sengol as a symbol of the transfer of power from the British regime unto Indians, and installed it in the new Parliament."
Hi User talk:Rasnaboy, please give your input on how to make Introduction more neutral. RogerYg (talk) 06:47, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- NPOV does not mean bending over backwards to maintain a "neutral language". See WP:FALSEBALANCE. A preponderance of reliable sources report that Modi/GOI floated an ahistorical narrative, and we say so outright. TrangaBellam (talk) 06:52, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Is Scroll a reliable source?
Does Scroll pass WP:RS? I don't see it in the list either. Can anybody check and clarify? The Scroll article's content seems more like the author's personal opinion, rather than news article. Rasnaboy (User talk:Rasnaboy) 05:50, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- Agree on that. Content with Scroll reference should be removed as per WP:RS. 67.83.187.221 (talk) 06:14, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
- The list is not exhaustive — if you doubt the reliability of Scroll.in, you can launch a RfC at WP:RSN. That said, there is no need to scrape the barrel since the same critiques can be sourced from NYT, WaPo, etc. TrangaBellam (talk) 06:48, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
Chola traditions - or rather, the lack of it
Why call it [Sengol] Chola, and not Nayaka or Thanjavur Maratha? During the reign of these early modern rulers in the 17th and 18th centuries, we have much more extensive mentions of Sengols.
— Kanisetti, Anirudh (2023-06-01). "Go beyond Sengol: Why there's such hype about Chola dynasty in India today?". ThePrint.
TrangaBellam (talk) 07:34, 9 June 2023 (UTC)The Thiruvavaduthurai adheenam claims it was the practice adopted in the Chola period during the coronation of a king. The irony is that the Thiruvavaduthurai mutt was created in the later Chola period by which time all the known Chola kings had ceased to exist. To date, there is no documentary proof for such practices being adopted by the Chola dynasty.
— Chandru, K. (2023-05-30). "In the eye of the sceptre". The Times of India. ISSN 0971-8257.
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