Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China

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Shen Kuo FAC

I have recently nominated Shen Kuo (1031-1095 AD) for Featured Article status. As most of you might know, Shen Kuo is one of the most important figures of Chinese history, and one of the most important scientists and writers of scientific literature in history. If you would like to review and provide comment/objection/support, then visit the talk page at Talk:Shen Kuo or specifically it's FA talk page here. Thanks! --PericlesofAthens 08:20, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Quality ratings and "A"

Can we have some discussion as to what and whether an 'A' rating should be used for in this project (and WikiProject Taiwan)? See Talk:Taiwanese aborigines. The relationship between 'A' and 'GA' ratings is not well defined, since GA uses an external process with a different population of reviewers and A is a WikiProject internal rating. Many people have said putting 'A' and 'GA' on the same scale is comparing apples and oranges. Different WikiProjects handle this in different ways; WikiProject Military History ignores GA and requires a project-wide peer review for A. Other, smaller WikiProjects that don't have a peer review process let GA and FA be assigned externally and don't use 'A'. This was my impression of how things worked here so far, but it's fine with me if we use a different process, as long as we agree and it is consistent. --Calde 04:38, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't use A when I rank articles, because I find it uncomfortable to declare that an article is basically ready for FA without any kind of external process. I'd be fine with setting up an internal review process if others want to.--Danaman5 13:52, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Take your POV probs elsewhere, sport. The ratings exist. Therefore they are intended to be used. End Of Story. Ling.Nut 22:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I find this response to be a little hostile. It is in fact true that other Wikiprojects don't use the A rating much, and I never use it, so it seems like this issue is worth discussing. We can't just say "End Of Story" and move on.--Danaman5 01:43, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

(undent) But if people want to use it, they can and should. That's the "End of Story." If you don't to use it, then you don't have to, and shouldn't. End of Story. It's just that simple. Ling.Nut 02:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you understand the concept of a "standard rating system". --Calde 20:04, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Danaman5

It really doesn't seem to matter. Just let people use it if they want.

Any hostility is being aimed at User:Calde, who is suspected of being a "dirty sock" and not editing in good faith, which degrades our entire community. As you can see, this user's only edits appear between an 8 hour window on the evening of May 2 to after midnight May 3 Eastern Time or in the afternoon and evening Pacific time USA. Unfortunately Calde is trying to manipulate the community to a POV and whether you agree or not, it is not how cooperation or change should be forged. As a major contributor to Taiwanese Aborigines I welcome members from the WikiProject China to contribute their knowledge and expertise and offer any advise to make this a better page. Although I do not always agree, anything can be discussed rationally, without resorting to "tricks". I would like to assume everyone is working in good faith and NPOV, but unfortunately, not everyone is upfront with their motives and this casts a cloud of suspicion over innocent contributors. I think this is regrettable and I hope both WikiTaiwan and WikiChina communities can cooperate in discouraging our members from this type of non-constructive behavior. I also think User:Calde should be ignored. Thanks!Maowang 03:21, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

This is the reason for the hostility. These users will say anything to discredit me and it is not possible for me to have a rational conversation with them.

These users wish to attack my comments by attacking me ad hominem. I am content to let the other members of WPCHINA decide. In particular, I hope that AQu01rius (talk · contribs) who has done a great deal of work rating articles will weigh in. --Calde 20:04, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Forbidden City

Hey guys, I've been working on Forbidden City for a while. I'd love for all of you to take a look and comment on the article, with a view towards a GA nomination eventually. Any suggestions, criticism, and of course editing would be great! --Sumple (Talk) 07:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

{{WikiProject China}} template

Why do you insist on slapping the {{WPCHINA}} template at the top of Talk pages willy-nilly?
I'll be blunt: it's really obnoxious.
JFD 17:30, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Articles related to China usually go under Wikipedia:WikiProject China. Is there any rationale for not including articles in WikiProject China or for including articles in another WikiProject? Please discuss this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China before removing the template. Thank you. LionheartX

The use of these national templates—even their placement, i.e. the order in which they appear on Talk pages—has escalated into WP:BATTLE before, and indiscriminately slapping national templates on Talk pages—at the very top, no less—can only worsen things where there is already tension. JFD 17:59, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia don't usually do things just to avoid controversy. "China" refers to the civilization China, with no political implications. Articles such as tea, gunpowder, ginseng, ect. is of great concern to China. In addition, see Talk:Foreign influence on Chinese martial arts and other talk pages where there are several "national templates" on the talk pages. LionheartX

Honestly, I use a script to add and assess articles, so the order in which the WP:CHINA tag appears on the talk page is somewhat random. I also second LionheartX's comments about the scope of our project. This project is about the Chinese civilization, not any one particular modern country or government.--Danaman5 18:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Then might I suggest being judicious in this template's application when there is the possibility of escalating WP:BATTLE? JFD 19:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

FAC voting

It looks bad for other members of WPCHINA/WPTAIWAN to support an article belonging to the project. I personally never support an article belonging to a project I am active in, I only speak up if I have an objection. For example, I felt the recent Beijing opera was a worthy FAC but let more objective people make the decision. --Calde 06:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I hope I wasn't out of line by mentioning Beijing opera here. Honestly, I was feeling like the FAC wasn't getting enough attention, so I was just trying to drum up comments.--Danaman5 06:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

The decision is not made by majority voting anyway. One reasonable objection trumps 100 "Support, great article" votes. It is useful to advertise FACs on WikiProject pages so other project members can help fix things that others have objected to. Kusma (talk) 06:48, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

No, of course FAC is not a vote (which many people fail to understand). I'm not objecting to mentioning a FAC to get help and feedback. What is dubious is members of the WikiProject showing up at FAC to say "support" and little more. I do believe this practice is deprecated somewhere, but I can't be bothered to look it up now. --Calde 17:54, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

A pure vote makes the voter look silly, but shouldn't have a large effect on the decision. Kusma (talk) 18:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not worried about these actions affecting the decision. I'm worried about WPCHINA/WPTAIWAN looking silly. --Calde 18:34, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Lion dance

I would like to translate the Lion dance article for German-language WP but it is tagged "Expand" and "Cleanup" and rated "Start-Class" while "Important". Since my username relates to something completely different, I only know what I can read in Wikipedia about it ;-) Could someone help me by reviewing the article so that I can have it exported to de:WP and translate it? Thanks. --Liondancer 04:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Translate

Can someone please translate the following titles into Chinese for me? (Ghostexorcist 10:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC))

Title of each volume

#	Chinese	pages	#	Chinese	pages
1	首战传捷报	126	6	联姻邈川关	110
2	大破石佛寺	110	7	受困桃源山	102
3	孤胆闯太湖	126	8	全歼赵都都	110
4	奇取同盟录	134	9	除暴芒山道	126
5	剿杀熊双飞	118	10	名师出高徒	110

Forbidden city

I wikified this article, removing duplicate links, adding comments, and various small fixes. My changes were reverted by an editor who apparently does not understand the Wikipedia Manual of Style. Now he is ignoring my request for discussion. Could someone please examine my changes and either put them back or explain to me why they should not be allowed? --Ideogram 14:24, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The comments were perhaps not that great in the article text. I agree with you that the article is overlinked, and have wikified it a little by removing links. Kusma (talk) 15:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Are there any other WP:MOS problems other than the overlinking? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:09, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Date linking, fixed image sizes. Really the edits speak for themselves, if someone would just take the time to look at them. --Ideogram 15:20, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I think your edits were very good. The disparaging comments hidden within the text undoubtably exacerabated any negative reaction you might have received. Explanations for edits typically are made in the edit summary line or on the talk page for the article. It's not good form to put that kind of thing in the text, and it's not good form to disparage the previous version. Could you make these changes over the course of several edits and forego the hidden text comments, thus making it easier for the other editor to accept and assimilate your changes? -Jmh123 18:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I know, I tend to be sarcastic. I placed the comments in the text this time because I thought Sumple was actively editing it, but he seems to have left. If anyone else shows an interest in improving the article I can discuss the comments with them on the talk page, but otherwise I think I'm done with it. --Ideogram 18:29, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Location of Xanadu

The Xanadu article gives as location "northeast of Lanqui/Zhenglan Banner/Dund Hot". I have no idea what that means. None of the terms appear to have Wikipedia articles. Is this a hoax? AxelBoldt 02:54, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I thought Xanadu was fictional. --Ideogram 03:44, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Found this. --Ideogram 06:11, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll incorporate that information into the article. Cheers, AxelBoldt 02:11, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Anyone here from Beijing with a camera?

I realize Wikipedia is blocked in Mainland China, but I have heard there is some editing of Wikipedia in China anyway. Is there anyone in or near Beijing who has or can take photos of Chinese dinosaurs? My understanding is that Beijing has a very large museum of Asian dinosaurs, the Institute of Vertebrate Paleontology and Paleoanthropology. Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs has at least 50 articles of Chinese dinosaurs which lack illustrations. A quick visit to the museum could provide Wikipedia with illustrations for these articles. If you know of someone who has or who can obtain pictures of dinosaur genera Dashanpusaurus, Magnirostris, Yuanmousaurus, Microhadrosaurus, Kelmayisaurus, Eugongbusaurus, Siluosaurus, Tatisaurus, Chungkingosaurus, Chinshakiangosaurus, Datousaurus, Gyposaurus, Bienosaurus, Stegosaurides, Tugulusaurus, Omeisaurus, Zigongosaurus, Chaoyangsaurus, Bellusaurus, Phaedrolosaurus, Crichtonsaurus, Chialingosaurus, Alxasaurus, Archaeoceratops, Yangchuanosaurus, Gasosaurus, or the non-dinosaurian pterosaurs Huanhepterus or Liaoxipterus please have them upload them. Firsfron of Ronchester 23:22, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Huo Long Jing

Gunpowder, Firearms, Cannons, Flamethrowers, Land Mines, and Rockets - What do all of these have in Common?

Why, they're all described and illustrated in the article (I created) on the 14th century Ming Dynasty military treatise of the Huo Long Jing, edited and compiled by the artillery officer Jiao Yu! Lol. Hey guys, how's it going, Pericles here. I just set up the Huo Long Jing article for peer review at:

Wikipedia:Peer review/Huo Long Jing

I'd be grateful if the lot of you would make some contributions in suggesting improvements or adding material to the article. Otherwise, why even join WikiProject China? Get to it, soldier, or I'll launch a fire arrow up your kiester.--PericlesofAthens 19:04, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Three Kingdoms WikiProject

By the way, for anybody that's interested, User:Ling.Nut has created a Three Kingdoms WikiProject.

Thanks for putting out the word — and for the record it's been a joint effort with Gamer Junkie, _dk, Sarazyn, and Plastictv. Others are extremely welcome (and begged) to join in! :-) Ling.Nut 21:21, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I have it on my watch list and might help out occasionally, but as it is, I already have a major case of Attention deficit disorder when it comes to editing articles, so I can't make any promises.  :-p Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 05:01, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

convert tables on emperor articles to a template...

I'd like to propose converting those tables (employed as infoboxes) to a single template. Doing so will:

1. Reduce the weight of every page
2. Make it much easier to propagate changes (that is, if some across-the-board change, large or small is needed; see below)
3. Ensure a consistent format.

While I'm thinking of it:

1. The tables include notes.. which perhaps would better be formatted as as straightforward <ref>-type footnotes with their text appearing in a "Notes" section. Within the table/infobox, they look a bit distracting/cluttered...
2. The text needs to be v-aligned (for example see in the "Posthumous name (full)" row in Qianlong Emperor).

...and other aesthetic improvements could be experimented with in a centralized manner...

Thanks --Ling.Nut 01:33, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

You want to convert this giant Table of Chinese monarchs to a single template?? May I ask if that is what you have in mind? Benjwong 03:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

No, that isn't it. :-) Look at Qin Shi Huang.. See the thing that looks like an infobox? It's a table. A similar table is in many articles. these should be converted to a single template, for the reasons given above. Ling.Nut 03:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

(undent) [[Qianlong Emperor]] has a template.. that could be edited... Ling.Nut 03:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I see. Yes that would be a good idea. In fact if I didn't look at the editpage, I would assume it was already using a template. Benjwong 20:11, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Mojibake move

I am proposing to have Mojibake, the current article for "乱码", moved to another name (preferably a purely English name). I think the problem is pretty common in Chinese. If anyone is interested in this topic, feel free to comment on its talk page. --Voidvector 10:15, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Workgroups

Although this project has many "workgroups," they all appear to be independent "WikiProjects." Should we make them part of this project?--Jerry 22:20, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Condor Heroes-related articles

A number of articles exist for The Legend of the Condor Heroes and The Return of the Condor Heroes, including articles for specific characters, but they are all either poorly sourced or completely unsourced. Some might need wikifying also. Most of them are not tagged for any WikiProjects - I did a few for WPChina. This is probably true also of articles that are about Jinyong's other books. I am not familiar with how to source for articles that are about fictional works or fictional characters, so if you have any insight, please try to improve these articles so they do not risk deletion when some editors come in and feel that they do not assert notability or something. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Help settle a dispute at List of tributaries of Imperial China

Calling all editors who are versed in imperial age Chinese history - I need some help settling a dispute at List of tributaries of Imperial China. I am neutral in the dispute, but I'm trying to help the editors involved come to a compromise. But I'm not as well versed in imperial age Chinese history as some of you may be, especially in terms of finding sources. So please help. Also, the article itself needs better sourcing that's not related to the dispute. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 04:38, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

China Green Party: China-related article up for deletion

Please comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/China Green Party. --PalaceGuard008 07:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

chinese text

I think the {{ChineseText}} marker should be at the beginning of articles, not the end. Why: so readers can immediately see what is wrong if Chinese characters are not shown. What do you think? Hmains 17:51, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and even moved a couple of them, but often there are other things at the top as well, including infoboxes, navigation templates, and sometimes a picture. All these things tend to collide and the formatting gets messed up. I don't have a good solution. --Ideogram 21:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The table that is the fix for stacked infoboxes is probably the fix. See Battle of Red Cliffs for an example. See Wikipedia:How to fix bunched-up edit links for more examples/discussion. Ling.Nut 01:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Can you fix Taiwan and Republic of China? --Ideogram 02:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

(Undent) I assumed you were talking about bunched-up edit links... I looked at Taiwan and it looks OK to me.. the dismabig text is to the left of the "Chinese chars" template; the latter is above a couple templates/images... what part needs to be fixed? (That's an honest question, not a rhetorical one). Ling.Nut 13:44, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

There's three things vying for the top right and they all have different widths making the right margin weave in and out. There's got to be a better way. --Ideogram 21:30, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

• Taiwan and Republic of China have the Chinese Text marker at the top. I think this is a good place for it, not at the bottom where I see it placed in various articles. Hmains 02:05, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I changed the size to be the same as a thumb image .... let me know if that helps... Ling.Nut 02:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't work, since the size of a thumb image depends on the user's preferences, and on the screen resolution for anonymous users. For example, my thumb image size is set to 300 pixels, so it still looks bad. And on Republic of China the infobox has a different width. It looks like you would have to do something fancy with a table to get everything lined up. --Ideogram 03:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

(undent) OK. I self-reverted my edits. I'll think about this problem... the table fix I suggested earlier won't work tho :-( Ling.Nut 03:19, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I don't even like having two images at the top of the article. I feel one image per subsection is enough, probably the location map. It would still be a problem making the ChineseText box and the map image look good together though. --Ideogram 03:40, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

As for the infobox in Republic of China, apparently the width is specified in something called "ex" (I don't know what this unit is, the width of an 'x'?) so different units from the ChineseText box. Ideally we could specify their widths in the same units, so they could be the same. --Ideogram 03:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Poll for article move at Wokou

There's currently a poll on a proposed article move at Wokou. Poll options include:

• Move to Japanese pirates
• Move to Wakō
• Move to Wōkòu
• Keep at Wokou

Please vote if you have an opinion. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:32, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Proposing a sectional move

The section Simplified Chinese characters#Debate on traditional and simplified Chinese characters should be moved into a separate article. Would anyone object if this whole section moves to a page by itself? Benjwong 01:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)