User talk:FT2

ADVANCE WARNINGS: 2007 SCHEDULE

• Known away dates at present: - Thurs 12 - Sun 15 July, and 14 - 22 Aug.

-- FT2

• Archived talk page comments: /Archive
  Closed topics are archived to approx. June 30 2007.

Wikipedia IRC channel: [1]

Services Link: [2]

Others: society -- religion -- studies -- research -- ap -- asa -- terminology -- emo -- med

RFPC draft

A/guide: WP:SIR, Wikipedia:Canvassing Contribs tool: [3] RfA list: {{Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard/RfA Report}}

NPOV Cite

"Wikipedia does not exist to determine truth. It is not our purpose to decide if NLP's claims are true or not. It is instead our purpose to fairly represent both NLP's claims and the claims of its critics. The purpose of consensus within Wikipedia is not to determine truth, but to determine the wording of articles. Nobody needs to modify their personal views in order to achieve consensus on the wording of the article. However, anyone who is not committed to Wikipedia's core principles is likely to be more concerned with hammering their viewpoint than they are with agreeing upon wording which fairly represents all side." user:Jdavidb [4]

Thanks...

...for closing out the Shane Hagadorn AfD, things did get rather complicted and at least three or four SPA-type accounts have been spamming the Pro-Wrestling AfD debates hoping to keep pages which should have been deleted at the PROD stage. And that one got especially tangled, thanks for sorting it out. Darrenhusted 22:40, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Kudos

The lengthy explanation at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/This Is The Life (album) was a good thing and you deserve a bit of recognition for making a tough decision. Even though my recommended course of action (weak keep) was not what occurred, I applaud your work. — Scientizzle 07:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. People put a lot of effort, and often invest a chunk of their "feel good", into new articles. When a new article's created in good faith, it seems wrong to delete or keep it without leaving those involved a good rationale why that decision was made. I would want that too if it was an AFD I cared about.

Other good reasons come to mind: a good explanation also helps clarify to editors what was missing in an article or AFD post and how policies work in practice, and hence encourages clearer thinking - always a good thing :) Administrators are just as answerable to policy and neutrality as any other editor, and their decisions should be able to withstand fair scrutiny. Last, a good explanation reduces antagonism and bad faith wikistress, by making clear why. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 08:04, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Email account

Sure. Done. ॐ Metta Bubble ^puff 11:15, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm. I followed the linked and validated it yesterday. Perhaps give it another day. ॐ Metta Bubble ^puff 08:43, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Works for me. I can email. What makes you think it isn't validated? ॐ Metta Bubble ^puff 09:39, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah, fixed. Try now. ॐ Metta Bubble ^puff 09:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok, got it. Send what you like. ॐ Metta Bubble ^puff 08:14, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Silent Hill influences and trivia (2nd nomination)

Just to inform you I reverted your change of template here, per the instructions on the template. You started the close preceedings over an hour ago, and left them incomplete. DarkSaber2k 11:47, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

:)

[5] Viridae^Talk 00:51, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Animal communication

Oh, you are quite correct. I meant to go into more detail on the talk page once I was done with my current to-do, but forgot all about it. I'll be going to go fetch my references and go explain why I removed the paragraph on the talk page sometime later tonight. — Coren ^(talk) 00:54, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Lengthy AfD explanations

Although I think your long AfD explanations are generally good (from what I've seen), the Silent Hill one seemed awfully long... do you think that much explanation was really necessary? Andre (talk) 06:25, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attachment Therapy

Hello,

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attachment Therapy. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attachment Therapy/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Attachment Therapy/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (Talk) 17:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

DRV

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Shane Hagadorn. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article or speedy-deleted it, you might want to participate in the deletion review.--Oakshade 16:03, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Request for third opinion (moved from user page)

template:History of Manchuria is suffering from extensive revert warring, and discussion is heading nowhere. A RfC was filed, but was only able to get one outside commentor[6]. Please provide a third opinion on whether template:History of Manchuria should be titled History of Manchuria[7] or History of Northeast China[8][9] to facilitate dispute resolution. Thank you. 08:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Moved by Matt/TheFearow (Talk) (Contribs) (Bot) from user page at 23:16, 8 July 2007 (UTC). Originally written by Cydevil38

Silent Hill influences and trivia

Hi FT2, per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Silent Hill influences and trivia (2nd nomination), this article is ready for deletion. I've moved over everything that had a direct reference, the rest is original research and/or mind-numbing trivia. Thanks, Marašmusïne_Talk 07:04, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Evidence size

Hi FT2. Your evidence in the Attachment Therapy request for arbitration is 3000+ words according to my word processor. Please trim it to at most 1500, and better yet 1000, to comply with the 1000 word limit for evidence. Thank you. Picaroon (Talk) 18:32, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Away

Away from Thurs 12 - Sun 15 July. Any matters needing attention will be seen on return FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 03:29, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/American Psycho: Music from the Controversial Motion Picture

FT2: I closed the AfD as a Keep based on both consensus and the issue regarding the Huey Lewis controversy. I was able to easily find sourcing for this issue (see here and here) which is clearly non-trivial and from reliable sources. This would satisfy the letter of WP:N. Sadly, neither WP:MUSIC nor WPP:MUSIC deal specifically with criteria for the notability of compliation albums, and WP:MUSTARD states only that albums should only be judged on a "case-by-case basis". Without anything else to guide us here, it'd default back to WP:N, which seems satisfied.

My biggest error here was assuming that the !voting editors were going to add the sources for the Huey Lewis bit. I will do so right now. If you still feel that this should be addressed by WP:DRV, by all means bring it up there. I hope, however, this has cleared things up.

Let me know if you have any other concerns. Cheers, Caknuck 04:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Let me preface everything by saying that you've made several valid points. I have no emotional investment in the article, and could care less whether or not it was merged with the main article for the film. I just want to make it known that I wasn't being cavalier about closing out the AfD, and that some careful thought went into it. That being said...

The dispute's notability has been established by two things:

1. It was covered by mainstream media like Rolling Stone and Salon.
2. The misconception that Lewis pulled the song because of the film's violent content still persists. Take the AMG review, which still reads: "Just before the disc's release, Huey Lewis demanded that his "Hip to Be Square" be pulled from the album -- he was offended by the film's subject matter."

As far as the album's article, I think it could probably stand on its own with some expansion. (And as general tendencies go, I'm a deletionist...) For instance, there are remixes of several notable songs -- most importantly "In The Air Tonight" -- which may not appear elsewhere. (I'll need to do some digging to verify this.)

Again, I have no objection to you either initiating an article merge or forwarding this to WP:DRV. Please let me know if you do. Thanks, Caknuck 05:50, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Coaching

Hi,

I'm glad to see you are interested in developing your wiki-knowhow by seeing admin coaching. Without any prior judgement whether you are ready or not to seek others views on adminship, it is always good to see others aiming to improve themselves. If you are looking for occasional hints and tips on your editing, I would be glad to give you some to-the-point feedback and pointers, and a helping hand for a while.

(Of course what you do with them, and how others view your work, will ultimately be down to you!)

If you're interested, you'll want as a first step to set yourself up with an email account, and then let me know. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 17:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} thanks for the offer. I always appreciate input on my editing and would gladly welcome any and all help in this venue. With regards to applying for adminship, I’m torn between two views. The first, is that I feel I could contribute more on the basic clean-up duties and in some circumstances “Dispute Resolution”. However, the Responsibilities associated with the privileges of adminship is also a burden that effects what I enjoy the most about Wikipedia the ability to just edit. So, will see. In the mean time, please feel free to offer any advice. It will be appreciated. Have a great day. .ShoesssS ^Talk

Ps…in the mean time I did take your advice and activated my email. .ShoesssS ^Talk

Email

Hi FT2. I've created an email to receive messages as you requested, but I haven't received anything from you beyond "hello" so I'm a little confused. I assume you're pretty busy. Anyway, post a message on my talk page when you have sent me something. I don't check that account usually. ॐ Metta Bubble ^puff 07:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll add my reply here in case there was more to add, but I don't particularly want to make my e-mail address available to anyone on wikipedia, was there a particular reason for asking me to do so? DarkSaber2k 14:41, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

(Replied on my talk page) DarkSaber2k 15:46, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Reason for discussion:

I'm looking at your edit history, and considering nominating you for adminship. There are many strikingly good points, not least a suitably wide range of experience and competent involvement in various areas, and a strongly policy-oriented approach to editing. Wikipedia policy suggests that editors should edit as administrators, rather than create an artificial divide; I see evidence of that in your editing history too.

The one slight issue I've seen so far is a tendency to be a little too abrupt in language use with the few editors who just don't get the point. However, I've checked, and your conduct in the actual discussions doesn't seem abusive; backing this, the couple of complaints raised by others that I have found, were in fact related to quite civil and policy-based discussion. Doubtless if RfA was proposed, this side would be inspected in more depth, which could go either way. (Or, obviously, if it ceased to be present then it would cease to be an issue too.) I don't know if there are other issues, but if so, I didn't notice them in the review I undertook.

If you would like to discuss this, either here or via email, you have access to both. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 16:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Life line

Life line, an article you created, has been nominated for deletion. We appreciate your contributions. However, an editor does not feel that Life line satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in the nomination space (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and the Wikipedia deletion policy). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Life line and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Life line during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Eliz81 19:47, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

AfD for Life line

That's so weird, since I use TWINKLE for xfd... thanks for letting me know, I'll put the template in manually! Eliz81 23:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I am not Iterator2n

Why did you think I was? --Jonathan Stray 03:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Nice to meet you. I have always had a serious interest in Wikipedia and more recently in its community too, as I am in the process of research for what I hope will someday be a popular book on popular epistemology, i.e. how people can decide if claims or ideas are true or not. --Jonathan Stray 03:15, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Oddly, that was sort of the idea. Aside from having a personal interest in psychotherapy, I chose to get involved in NLP because I wanted to understand how finding consensus might work in really contentious rational skepticism style cases. I'm also volunteering to mediate Food irradiation for that reason ;) --Jonathan Stray 03:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Attachment therapy

There's an update: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Re:_AWeidman.2C_RalphLender.2C_DPeterson.2C_JohnsenRon.2C_SamDavidson.2C_MarkWood.2C_JonesRD_-_admin_self-check Jayjg ^(talk) 21:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

It Was Only Created For... in WP:ATA

Hi there, you added this section to WP:ATA. I'm wonder if you would mind if it was merged with WP:RUBBISH - they seem to have the same intended spirit and it would help cut down an increasingly long essay. Thanks -Halo 02:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Deathrash

That really depends upon how one goes about gettign a page salted? Will it require a new AfD or can it be done through speedy? Thankyou for the notice. -- Jimmi Hugh 17:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Do you know what you are talking about?

Morton Brilliant in Georgia state (regional) politics was a completely separate issue from the congressional staffers in Washington, D.C. I also took out your statement that implied that any congressional staffers were fired. And a suggestion: this list of controversies should probably just provide careful one-liners that exist primarily just to refer to the corresponding Wikipedia article and no footnotes: if footnotes are useful, then they belong back in their corresponding article.--76.203.48.177 17:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Brilliant definitely did resign, with Cox announcing it publicly because she had made a public stand against negative campaigning. We do not know if anyone got fired in the congressional staffer incident(s). They both fall under the category of "politics and Wikipedia", but they are separate incidents.--76.203.48.177 18:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Policy/Email

Had a chance to look over your policy proposal, but since I was doing it in class, I didn't have much of a chance to comment. I will at some point soon, really. And I've enabled my email now =) ♠PMC♠ 20:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I wrote this

I wrote this response before you removed the section, so I might as well put it somewhere.

In response to this:

(ec)I consider a self published source only acceptable to verify non-controversial claims, such as those that don't need to be cited anyways. The verifiability content applies to articles only, not discussions. Referring to existing debates on Wikipedia to make a point in a discussion is fine, but Wikipedia should never refer to itself as a source in articles. Until(1 == 2) 01:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Your query

Hi FT, I see you removed your query from V. I had already answered it and got an edit conflict, so I'll post it here in case it's helpful.

There are two main issues: reliability and notability. With the NPOV example you give above, the Wikipedia policy page would be regarded as a (probably self-published) primary source, and it's fine to use primary sources so long as you stick only to describing what they say, without analysis. So you could use the NPOV policy as a source in an article about Wikipedia. But you then have to ask yourself why you can't find a secondary source. If no reliable secondary source has seen fit to mention the NPOV policy, is it something we should bother mentioning? That's where the issue of notability kicks in. It's always better to use secondary sources, because then we know that what we're writing about is something other people have expressed views on too, and not simply something we personally find interesting — which can lead to original research when we pick and choose primary sources we happen to like, rather than the ones secondary sources have written about.

Does this help to answer your question? SlimVirgin ^{(talk)(contribs)} 01:22, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Changes to WP:BAN

Greetings. Excellent attitude of boldness! However, I have restored an earlier version of the policy, I want to discuss the changes you made before they become policy. The changes are still in the history and can be restored, if consensus is achieved. I have commented at WT:BAN. Cheers! Navou ^banter 12:44, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Comments on my talk page

were these offered as an administrator? DPeterson^talk 00:33, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I received some information that I felt worthy of posting on the Admin Notice Board regarding your conduct. Pls see that page. DPeterson^talk 12:59, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

• The thread is (here). Peace.Lsi john 13:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

DPeterson Block

DPeterson was blocked for that edit at 18.19. RalphLender reinserted the identical passage at 18.43. [10]Fainites ^barley 19:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Was already editing on that one too. But it'll have to wait a bit. I have an appointment for an hour. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 19:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Gosh! Real Life? Fainites ^barley 19:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Anyhow, thanks, but I had already spotted that, and only noticed your message when I went to check Ralph's block log to determine if he had been blocked previously for similar grounds. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 19:38, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

AT

Here [11] at 22.24 and here [12]at 2.04, reinserting the same or similar edit on ACT. Here at 2.07[13]stating restoring material that was added with sources and verificable citations. No material had been deleted; only added to improve article in the edit summary when in fact a sentence and two substantial passages were deleted.Fainites ^barley 05:06, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I have asked him to edit in compliance with policy, once more, already. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 11:30, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

New threads

please dont start a new thread on a talk page (HoW) when a thread has been opened on the same issue as the last comment, its disrespectful to my thread. Thanks, SqueakBox 22:39, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Its on the history of wikipedia talk page [14]. I made a thread about it right above yours, perhaps you didnt see me? SqueakBox 22:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Cool, and yes we do have a disagreement that has nothing to do with this so lets keep discussing, SqueakBox 23:11, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi, wanted to thank you for your help, it is appreciated and thanks for letting me know your edit summary that was helpful to. I will go have a look at what you have suggested and keep at it. I had a look at a related afd and decided it really should be kept just improved as many student uni branchs have done a lot for out cause and many unis have a nus page. with love Delighted eyes 13:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks from me, too, for the connect and all your careful work.Jean Mercer 17:43, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry if I was too quick - but I never hold deletions against people unless they're obvious vandals. Deb 19:26, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Ze RfA

Thanks for the genuinely constructive comment on my RfA. Those are few and far between and, as far as I am concerned, the point of the exercise. I was sorta hoping more of the opposes would have visibly examined my contributions and commented on them; they turned out to be rather superficial (admitedly, many of the supports were just as superficial).

I'm going to be looking into the areas you have suggested. I didn't even know about WP:3O! I fear I'm never going to be much of a mainspace editor— but that will never prevent me from doing the less glamorous work.  :-) — Coren ^(talk) 02:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)