Talk:Andrey Arshavin

Spelling

MICHEL RECENDEZ Many Russian names Andrei or Andrey are spelled differenly. On two different pages this players name is spelled in different ways. I recommend that it be spelled with an i at the end. After a while if no one says different I will change it. Likthem

Actually, it was me who renamed the article to its current form. I did it because FC Zenit says it's "Andrey". [1] In addition, WP:RUS recommends "y". Conscious 21:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, although I am quite used to seeing it written as i and not y, I will not disagree with Wikipedia's standards. Thank you. Likthem

I've also seen "Andrei" at rsssf and uefa sites. Conscious 20:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Didn't Arshavin himself confirm the spelling to be "Andrey". Sky Sports and the Daily Mirror both confirmed this I believe and have used the spelling Andrey in their news reports.

ANDREY Arshavin has confirmed himself his name is spelt with an Y. This was said on Sky Sports News, and can be seen on his own website, aswell on the website of his new club Arsenal. http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/factfile-on-andrey-arshavin As i am new to wikipedia i do not know how to submit a "move request" to have this changed. If anyone could help me that would be much appreciated. thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Marvinarshavin (talk • contribs) 20:18, 3 February 2009 (UTC) [This comment was moved by myself as there were two "Spelling" sections listed in this discussion]

Goalkeeping

Andrei Arshavin normally is an outfield player but ever since signing to Arsenal F.C. the manager, Arsene Wenger being a grade A bigot. He has placed Andrei Arshavin at the mouth of goal. All the other players have some sort of African heritage playing outfield. This has caused alot of tumult and controversy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.38.201.5 (talk) 10:20, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

On the official Zenit St. Petersburg website his name is listed as Andrey. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whiteknight666 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC) As a compromise I listed both spellings

Since joining Arsenal Andrey Has Stated his name is spelt with a Y as opposed to an I.--194.74.242.33 (talk) 00:04, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

This article has been renamed

This article has been renamed from Andrey Arshavin to Andrei Arshavin as the result of a move request. See Talk:Vyacheslav Malafeev for an archive of the proposal. — Ash063 09:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Name of the team

Would be nice if people called my country's team right (The Netherlands)... We aren't simply named "Holland" you know.. ADB15 (talk) 21:25, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Looks to me you are simply holland and lost of russia. 77.248.185.98 (talk) 21:42, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Technically only 2 provinces of the lowlands make up Holland but even man.y dutch people call the country holland in england. Look at interviews with van Basten —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.65.102.49 (talk) 00:17, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I know that but our team is officially named the Netherlands and since this is WIKIPEDIA it has to be named like it really is.. just because we call it Holland for the ease of comfort doesn't mean the other should do it :P ADB15 (talk) 12:11, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, their are inaccuracies in the information of the page. As of June 22, Andrey Arshavin has scored 67 goals in official play for ZenitWhiteknight666 (talk) 17:06, 22 June 2008 (UTC)WhiteKnight666

Anderson aka ochoa the hooligan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ochoamu (talk • contribs) 15:35, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Andrey Arshavin Will wear the number 23 shirt for Arsenal Football Club. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.51.123 (talk) 22:02, 27 June 2008

Arsenal fc have had a €10million offer rejected, but are poised to make another approach of about 14million. Whiteknight666 (talk) 01:33, 28 June 2008 (UTC)WhiteKnight666 (UTC) on 20th of january Arsenal f.c of London,England smash there record tranfer fee and sign Arshaven

The deal looks to be off, Sky Sports News had a report sent to them from Zenit saying the deal was off that was at 17:30pm on 2nd Feb 09. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.107.174.93 (talk) 17:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Imagens de Arshavin

Arshavin images

[img]http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/feb2009/7/4/3CD22C45-0FEA-34E5-1A66681EA468CBE5.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01252/Andrei_Arshavin_1252484c.jpg[/img]

Agreeing to someone should change it......he will be arsenal player on thursday 27th jan —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arsenal1193 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

They're not free, consult WP:IUP#Adding images. Conscious (talk) 19:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Leaving in January?

Can you delete/undo these Arsenal rumors listed on his article? This is not the place for it! Let's not turn wikipedia into a cheap online tabloid! Rumor hunting are what the likes of goal.com are for. Until he has signed for someone, I see no reason to start burning your tires.. it's quite annoying seeing this kind of thing. i supposed temporarily it's alright but ask yourself, who in their right mind goes to wikipedia to get up to date football info?--Fly05 (talk) 09:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I read a couple of articles about Arshavin possibly leaving for Arsenal. – Michael (talk) 22:10, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I have seen sources that seem to be reliable saying that Arsenal is trying to make this transfer happen. I am surprised why this information is not included in the article and would like to know why some editors remove it. BaldPark (talk) 03:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

It'd be ridiculous to name every club that ever made a bid for Arshavin. I'm sure Ramos was confident in August when trying to sign him for Spurs. Same with Barcelona etc etc etc etc etc.............. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.45.49.142 (talk) 09:00, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I am not aware of any reliably documented official offer other than Arsenal's. Are you? BaldPark (talk) 09:18, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, just google past offers. 203.45.49.142 (talk) 09:24, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

• http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1041934/Arshavins-Tottenham-hits-set-Zenit-hold-21m.html
• http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7470415.stm
• http://thestar.com.my/sports/story.asp?file=/2008/11/16/sports/2565509
• http://www.soccernews.com/arsenal-lead-arshavin-race/3773/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.45.49.142 (talk) 09:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

I think it is entirely appropriate to have this kind of information in the article, other guidelines being followed, of course. BaldPark (talk) 21:03, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

As I've said in my edit summary, Zenit's negotiations with Arsenal obviously deserve a mention somewhere in the article. Regardless of whether the deal itself goes through or not, it will still have a very big effect on his career. Arshavin has already said that he has no intention of playing for Zenit again, so the least that can happen is that Arshavin will buy out his contract after this season, either way, it is difficult to underestimate the impact these negotiations may have on his career. Just don't go into too much detail, at least not until the transfer window is closed in seven days. There's just way too much inaccurate information right now. BanRay 11:26, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Well-said! Thank you. 71.139.20.155 (talk) 22:55, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Such a deal will have an affect on his career only if it goes through. To suggest anything else is simply crystal ball gazing.--ClubOranje^Talk 10:22, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Arshavin moves to Arsenal!

1. 23 is what he will be wearing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gary-spratt (talk • contribs) 04:12, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Arshavin moves to Arsenal! [2] Yoda1893 (talk) 20:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes More sources: [3]

Stop changing the article please.

How can I lock the article? Its getting kind of annoying.

Arshavin is already an Arsenal player so you could change it :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aspirina (talk • contribs) 21:05, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Andrei Arshavin has NOT YET joined Arsenal from Zenit St Petersburg. Arsenal are waiting for necessary paperwork to be signed by the Premier League. Please read these "sources" more clearly:

[4] states clearly: "The Gunners are now merely waiting on the Premier League to sign all the necessary paperwork for the deal to be made official."

[5] states clearly: "...although we are atill awaiting official confirmation from the clubs and player."

Please stop changing the article until both clubs and/or the player make an OFFICIAL announcement. Captain Alaric (talk) 21:17, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

It is done. I mean when a baby is born it isnt born until the papers are signed for this birth cert? Please....It is done. Change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.55.10.46 (talk) 22:53, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, the Canadian Press (hardly the best source for football, but a source none the less) is reporting the deal as done and complete. [6] --99.224.245.159 (talk) 23:30, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

While I understand a desire to "break the news" before official confirmation, over the length of the debacle, there has been no lack of conflicting news sources. Changing it before the deal is reported as done by completely reliable sources (Arsenal.com, mostly) would be irresponsible. As for the baby analogy, it seems a little off. This is unconfirmed information, not something we definitely know to be true. – moonty (talk) (contribs) 08:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

It's offical he moved

On the Russian chanell one it was announced today.

The Russian minister of sports already commented it.[7].

And here are the news from the most offical Russian sports site:

Arshavin before it was offical announced he will play under the 23 number if he moved: [8]

And here is the offical confirmation from Zenit: [9]

It's offical. MaIl1989 (talk) 12:29, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Sport Express say the move has been finalized some 20 minutes ago, we'll need an official confirmation from either Zenit or Arsenal though. BanRay 16:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed by Arsenal now. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:58, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Arsenal have now confirmed on their website that he will wear the number 23 shirt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vernonflorida (talk • contribs) 17:13, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

As the move is now absolutely official and complete can someone update the top photo? or at least remove it as it shows Arshavin in his old club's colours Aion707 (talk) 15:37, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

What's the need though? All that the image needs to do is show the reader what Arshvin looks like, and it does that. A free image of Arshavin in an Arsenal shirt after one day of being at the club is surely next to impossible anyway. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

Andrei Arshavin → Andrey Arshavin — Following the discussion above, and in light of the fact both his former club and his current club's official websites both spell it with a "y", I think we can take it as a clear sign that is how he prefers to spell his name in English. — Qwghlm (talk) 10:19, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Support

• Support as nominator. Qwghlm (talk) 10:20, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support - official per Arsenal and Zenit St. Petersburg references. ···巌流^{? · talk to ganryuu} 10:42, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support- 58.169.113.160 (talk) 13:45, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support - as above. Jawley (talk) 21:30, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Moved from WP:RM:

• Agree.--Avala (talk) 19:55, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support as per the nomination and User:Ganryuu. Primary sources more authoritative than secondary ones. There'll be a redirect from one to the other anway. - fchd (talk) 18:12, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support This has been confirmed as a spelling by THE PLAYER HIMSELF why on earth this is still being debated I have no idea. Please change this to ANDREY ASAP. Rob Riot UK —Preceding undated comment was added at 18:54, 7 February 2009 (UTC).

• Source? BanRay 19:04, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
• Sources: Arsenal F.C. Profile [10] Sky Sports Profile [11] BBC Sport Profile [12] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Robriotuk (talk • contribs) 19:27, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

• Support. A number of credible sources, such as arsenal.com, his own website and the Russian Federal Migration Service prefer Andrey to Andrei. I hadn't seen it with a y until a few days ago and it is possible that Andrey Arshavin will go on to become the preferred spelling of the majority of English language sources, since he will be featured in more English news articles. I think the BBC have changed their spelling, since Tuesday, to Andrey.  slυмgυм [ ←→ ] 21:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
• Support. There does not seem to be any clear common name at this point, that I can tell, but Romanization of Russian conventions and Arshavin himself seem to agree on "Andrey", so I can support this move. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 02:29, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• Not a clear common name? BaldPark's google links give me a ratio of 38 to 1 in favour of Andrei, the google news links I posted give me a 30 to 1 ratio in favour of Andrei... Looks common to me. — CHANDLER^#10 — 05:39, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• Support. When in doubt, go the the player's official website. As you can see, the 'y' spelling is used here. Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 09:36, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• So you're proposing moving Ronaldinho to Ronaldinho Gaúcho per the player's official website, not giving a toss about commoname? — CHANDLER^#10 — 10:55, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• Irrelevant - we're not talking about Ronaldinho here. Besides, should the 'common' spelling of the name really be used when it's clearly incorrect? Bettia (bring on the trumpets!) 11:46, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• Irrelevant? You said the most important source available was a players homepage. And Андрей is obviously not wrong to anglicise to either Andrei, Andrey or Andriy — CHANDLER^#10 — 14:00, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• Support. Where there's a clear trend towards a name change, we should respect that (as WP:COMMONNAME necessarily needs to weight uses over time). There's a trend towards the -ey spelling. I'm unconvinced by random Google searches which don't appear to take either predominant English usage or time into account. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 12:14, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

• Oppose. Wikipedia is a tretiary source. Based on Google search, it looks to me the majority of sources uses "Andrei" spelling:

  http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Andrei+Arshavin%22 - 15 mln pages,

  http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Andrey+Arshavin%22 - 76 thousand. -- BaldPark (talk) 18:22, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose I'm not particularly hostile to changing the name, but I think it should remain as it is for a few weeks to see what "common usage" dictates before making a move. Translating across languages is generally a tricky buisness, and both these options seem plausable - but I'm not convinced their is yet settled and sufficent widespread usage of Andrey to justify changing the title just yet.Lord Cornwallis (talk) 03:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose [13][14][15] and stuff like Andrei vs. Andrey I still think i is more common and commonly known than y — CHANDLER^#10 — 04:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose as per BaldPark. --Jimbo^[online] 00:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The "Y" Spelling should be implemented ASAP due to the overwhelming Support indicated for the change. Wikipedia is a democracy and I would hope that just because a vocal few, whose main argument for keeping the spelling Andrei is Google search results, would back down and allow changes be made to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.11.155.212 (talk) 14:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

• While Zenit and Arsenal may spell his name with a Y – as do the BBC, it seems – UEFA and FIFA appear to spell it with an I. I'm not taking sides on this one, as I think that both Andrei and Andrey are equally acceptable transliterations of the Russian name "Андрей". – PeeJay 13:36, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

All we need do is get a look at his English work permit. This would resolve this issue. A UK Government issued work permit would have to the internationally recognised spelling of his translated first name. OK not an easy document to get hold of, but it would resolve the problem. Aion707 (talk) 15:41, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I dont know what a work permit would bring as this is about the common name. Let's take Brazilians as an example, I would guess their permits would give their full names, not just "Robinho" "Ronaldo" etc. — CHANDLER^#10 — 04:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

no, eat me out. its spelt with an Y. Arshavin himself confirmed this the day he signed for Arsenal. If you look at his own website, which he runs himself, it is also spelt with a Y. Marvinarshavin (talk) 10:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, there are two slightly different spellings of his first name. It just does not look like that one with "Y" is more prevalent than with "I". I just do not get why some people see his self-published web site or Arsenal's web site as the final authority while there are apparently millions pages using "I" spelling. BaldPark (talk) 19:04, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Because the way the player himself spells it is undoubtedly the "correct" way (quotation marks because there is likely no correct transliteration). Eightball (talk) 01:00, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

WP is descriptive, not prescriptive. Our naming conventions state that we should use the common name appearing in external literature. Any preferences expressed by the subject of an article must be weighed against the prevailing spelling conventions in scholarly literature. Romanization of Russian conventions may also be of use ("y" seems preferred), but usually the common name trumps any discussion of spelling conventions. In this case, however, I don't see that there is any clear-cut common name, and preliminary Google tests yield nearly identical results for both spellings. In the absence of a clear common name, since both WP:RUS and the subject himself seem to agree on a spelling, I could support spelling with a "y". I just hope we're discussing moving for the right reasons. Wilhelm_meis (talk) 02:26, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

One would think the subject would know how to spell his own name. Eightball (talk) 05:28, 10 February 2009 (UTC)