User talk:Moni3

SEMI-RETIRED

This user is no longer very active on Wikipedia.

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The thing that makes you exceptional, if you are at all, is inevitably that which must also make you lonely.
—Lorraine Hansberry

Everglades National Park

Protected the page rather than blocking both both of you for 3rr. Please discuss (preferably on the article talk page) rather than edit warring. I protected it as I found it - no endorsement of current version. Vsmith (talk) 23:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Meh. --Moni3 (talk) 23:55, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid I called you a bitch here, so I fully expect the civility police to come banging on my door again. Mind you, that's nothing to what I've been called over the past few days: a cockroach and a juvenile amoeba spring immediately to mind. God knows why I had that Edit warring place in my watchlist, I feel unclean now having posted there. Malleus Fatuorum 00:26, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Precision of language, Malleus, please. I am a whore. And a slag. --Moni3 (talk) 00:34, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll bear that in mind for next time. Anyway, what are your prices like? Are they reasonable? As an aside, I wonder why it is that women tend to get more sexist-oriented insults than men do. Or am I imagining it? Malleus Fatuorum 00:54, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't know, dickface. You tell me. --Moni3 (talk) 00:55, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Aww, that brings back memories of what SandyG used to call me, and Jennavecia used to regularly call me a dick, ocasionally one of porn star proportions. Happy days. :lol: Malleus Fatuorum 01:01, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Damn, I adore you people. It's been a long week, and it's only Tuesday, so I needed that guffaw you just made me make. Now I can go to bed, and hopefully, I'll actually be able to sleep. Thank you and God bless you all. Christine (talk) 05:31, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

I've never called you anthing except MF. Have I? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:15, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Lake Erie

Here's something to cheer you up - some folks are buffing up Lake Erie - you could enjoy complianing about what's wrong with the article in terse language on the talk page as an informal peer review..... Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:36, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Aw, I can't hate on editors who are earnestly working on articles no matter how clueless they are. The process helps them learn, just as I do. I respect the willingness to learn and improve. I really don't respect a bulldozer fingers in ears attitude. That makes me complain in terse language.

How badly does Lake Erie need my assistance? I haven't given a review for a while. --Moni3 (talk) 02:43, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Background -Wikipedia:U.S. Wikipedians' notice board/USCOTM was recently reactivated (which I think is a good thing), and I was trying to help frame it and give reasonable collaboration ideas and goals. I'd been reading the Lorax which made me think of Lake Erie and so I listed it and it's seen a bit of work (which is good) - even just some broad content/emphasis pointers would be good. The US collaboration did not get a large number of FA/GAs before, so would be good to punt some articles into some shiny medal territory. Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:35, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Everglades National Park

Looks like you 'won'. I was simply following the standard of numerous other articles that link similarly, guess on the Everglades article people feel strongly against. Hopefully no hard feelings? Zarcadia (talk) 11:14, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

There is no winning on Wikipedia. And no hard feelings...for me, at least. I was serious about the offer to assist you in getting any article on any topic to FA status. It is a monumental amount of work to get it there and keep it there. Every editor should understand what it's like. When it's on a topic you love very much, it's often worth it. About 80% of the time. --Moni3 (talk) 12:53, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Speaking of the everglades, or more specifically Melaleuca quinquenervia, note this and associated talk page discussion. I figure getting some more specifics on what's being damaged or impacted on is prudent..but...yeah....Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:17, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Overlinking and underlinking

I think, in retrospect, the 'altercation' we had the other day was actually quite useful. I'll admit I didn't quite understand the wp policy of linking, and as I said earlier in a discussion my knowledge was based on the experience of browsing/editing articles that probably were linked incorrectly. I feel I now have a better grasp of that policy and look to use it in my improvements and edits to wp. Thanks and all the best for your future editing! Zarcadia (talk) 10:46, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I considered myself a pretty good writer when I came to Wikipedia. When I look back on what I wrote then, I'm kind of embarrassed. Through being constantly corrected--mostly gently, but now and again not so gently--my writing style became tailored for an encyclopedia. What I find interesting is that at some point I realized I had learned enough to trust myself. It's difficult to know who to take advice from here because users are anonymous and everyone seems to tell everyone else what to do. They speak with authority, but don't always seem to have the substance to back it up. I treat everyone with skepticism until they prove somehow that I should follow their advice. Usually that takes the form of experience; once I see someone's editing contributions, it gives me a better idea how good a grasp of English they have, and what they are trying to accomplish. It's much more difficult to follow advice when policies continue to change (when I started it was normal to link every date in the article and link every term that also had an article) and other editors may not have a solid grasp of policy or grammar...or English.

This isn't really the most efficient way to build an encyclopedia, but this is online and a unique website, obviously. I often wish it were different, but I'm not sure how it could be. --Moni3 (talk) 16:25, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I think if there were more of an effort to describe the chronology of pages somehow that, would help. I haven't thought about it too much with something like WP:FA, but think it would be good for folks like Raul and Sandy to describe in detail how standards have evolved over the years. I started here in mid-2006, just when inline references were starting to be used. Found them a challenge at first but got used to them. What I am thinking of is this - I found this didn't give me much info on a page. Is it active? What's happening? and had to trawl through the history or look around for some answers, si I at least got some chronology into the current version..actually that isn't a great example but you get my drift. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:47, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Replying to your note on my talk page

Hi Moni3. Sorry to be just replying to you now: I've just noticed your note.

I think you're right about expertise. At least, my own personal experiences, and the stories I hear from others, support what you say. I should probably amend that thing I keep saying (about people "bringing their crumbs to the table") -- it would likely be more precise to characterize them as crumbs-of-interest versus crumbs-of-knowledge. Although that is unwieldy :-)

Anyway, thank you for your note. I'm glad you left it, and I'm glad you're here :-)

(I also want to say I think it's fabulous that you created the Ann Bannon article. Fifteen years ago I interviewed Lynne Fernie and Aerlyn Weissman, the two Canadians who made Forbidden Love. What a great story. And that whole piece of history could've eventually been lost to us, if it weren't for Wikipedia and the NFB :-)

Sue Gardner (talk) 06:28, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Featured lists on the main page (perhaps!)

Hi there. There's a discussion here about the possibility of getting featured lists their own section on the main page. The discussion has turned to presenting a few lists that would represent the quality and diversity of topics that we cover, and a list that you were involved with has been mentioned specifically. It'd be great to get your thoughts. Regards, The Rambling Man (talk) 11:56, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

March 2011 GAN backlog elimination drive a week away

WikiProject Good Articles will be running a GAN backlog elimination drive for the entire month of March. The goal of this drive is to bring the number of outstanding Good Article nominations down to below 50. This will help editors in restoring confidence to the GAN process as well as actively improving, polishing, and rewarding good content. If you are interested in participating in the drive, please place your name here. Awards will be given out to those who review certain numbers of GANs as well as to those who review the most. On behalf of my co-coordinator Wizardman, we hope we can see you in March. MuZemike delivered by MuZebot 00:09, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

references & sources

hi @Moni3, I've been looking at some of the articles I'd like to help with, & many seem to sound like they were written in present tense, in the past. (some almost press release style, which I'd like to help tidy too as they shouldn't be posting PR here) if I can't find sources to clarify some of the claims, can I contact them to clarify and post the reply/thread on the talk page. or does this count as original research? or could it be WP:ABOUTSELF (but I'm doing the editing instead of them). most of them as written as "recently XYZ happened" (& I see that the article was dated/originated a few years ago) whereas I think it might be better to say "in 2008 XYZ happened" if it's still relevant.

& for sources, many of the less-commercial music & arts artists are not featured in mainstream media, but are mentioned in street press, grassroots media. I see that blogs/zines are not acceptable for sources, but are some of the free/independent news media ok to use as sources? (as many of these are written about online these days). some artists are no longer active. I'm seeing some of these artists missing, but a few of the more recent, net-savvy artists having pages. so I'm not sure if they should all be there or none? or if only some? thanks Kathodonnell (talk) 02:19, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Hey, kathodonnell. Although it's not always the norm, the best way to source is a strict adherence to WP:RS. All sources should be published by a third party that has editorial oversight and fact-checks. No self-published sources, opinions, blogs (unless they are associated with a reliable source like a newspaper), or personal websites.

Depending on the amount of available information in this realm, this can affect the assessment of the article. Not every topic has a lot of this kind of information, or it may have a preponderance of opinion and little fact. This is particularly true of topics that have gone mostly unrecognized by academic authorities. Early rock and roll, for example, may not have a lot of information on it.

As long as the source you're using is fact-checked with editorial oversight, the source is fine.

I'm not sure I understand the other part of your question. Can you elaborate? --Moni3 (talk) 03:01, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

thanks for your reply. the other part was in relation to rewording some of the article. for example, in Talk:On_Dit article, they have "Currently, every issue of On Dit conforms to a certain theme, which is reflected in graphical style, and occasionally in the articles within it (although this may change in 2010)." & I'd like to change it to something like "Since (XXXX_year), On Dit's graphical style and articles have conformed to a chosen theme." is it appropriate for me to contact them & ask if/when this changed. I've seen similar sentences in other articles I've read, which seem to have been written in present tense at the time the article was posted. it doesn't sound (to me) like something I'd read in a printed encyclopedia. but things like this I probably won't find in an article about the topic (maybe it should be removed altogether in this case). I guess if I have to do the fact-checking for it, then it's original research so not allowed? Kathodonnell (talk) 03:48, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Personal emails are not reliable sources, unfortunately. I would go ahead and change the prose to reflect the past tense (use "as of XXXX") in a more encyclopedic tone. Although some articles may be using personal emails as references, they are not high quality articles to be doing that. It would not pass a Good Article nomination. Instead of asking the company/magazine for their answer, ask them to direct you to published articles about the changes. Sometimes I ask people or organizations to point me in the right direction if I'm not too familiar with trade mags in a particular field. --Moni3 (talk) 04:24, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

ok, thanks very much for your great suggestions. I'll try this. cheers. it would be nice to get some more of the Australian articles to GA status! Kathodonnell (talk) 04:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Spelling of "clientele"

The French word "clientèle" has an English equivalent that is spelled "clientele". If there is a need to use a French word in an English sentence, the word should be italicized. There is, in the case of the Stonewall riots, no such need. The English word can and should be used, as the French word conveys absolutely no different meaning. Happy editing! Chris the speller (talk) 15:23, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I accidentally the dog. --Moni3 (talk) 17:50, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

And now that I have more time to respond, this is the kind of stupid thing I hate responding to. I'm old, clientèle is right, and I have to get a useless spelling lesson from you. But hey, whatever is going to keep a stupid level of peace is super. It's the way things go on Wikipedia. --Moni3 (talk) 22:02, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm oldish myself, yet by having this page on my watchlist, I learned not only about the French and English spellings of clientele, but also the "I accidentally" internet meme. Geometry guy 22:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Moni3, please take notice that suggesting a comment is stupid implies that the editor making the comment is stupid, and hence is construed as a "personal attack", and may lead to sanctions against you. OK, I'm paraphrasing, but that's what I was accused of quite recently. This place gets crazier by the day.

Anyway, I prefer clientèle too, looks more sophisticated than the rather drab "clientele", but Chris is of course quite right. Malleus Fatuorum 22:42, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Malleus, that admonition is stupid. --Moni3 (talk) 22:45, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Obviously, but then so much here is so far beyond stupid that it makes my eyes spin. Malleus Fatuorum 22:47, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

...and my blood curl... Geometry guy 22:55, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

We really do need to spin off that English wikipedia, separate from the present American one. I bet Moni3 would join us like a shot, as would most of the rest of the English-speaking world. Jimmy Wales's Rand obsession is what will destroy this project, and is destroying it. Well, to be fair, he's now somewhat irrelevant, so it's probably more accurate to say that those who mindlessly follow his various dictates now will be the the real culprits. I have one very much in mind as I type this. Can you guess who it is? Malleus Fatuorum 23:05, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

What's this Rand obsession of which you speak? Would m'lords deign to invite such a filthy colonist as I? Perhaps if I tried my hardest to fix my American spelling? Because my French spelling apparently is aces. --Moni3 (talk) 23:09, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm talking about Ayn Rand, naturellement. It's a funny thing, but it was nip and tuck in the early days whether America would end up speaking English or French. As it turned out it largely speaks Spanish, but that's life I suppose. Malleus Fatuorum 23:28, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

I like the idea of an English language Wikipedia as a spin-off from this one, but it needs to be thought through. For instance, Malleus makes arbitrary reference to other editors, but how would we replace cliches (or should I say "clichés"?) such as "Randy from Boise"? "Trevor from Nuneaton"? "Sheila from Adelaide"?Geometry guy 23:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

English has long been a very acquisitive language. I think I'm right in saying that there are more words in English than in any other language, so we can be accommodating; Randy from Boise is just fine. Malleus Fatuorum 00:14, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Alan Greenspan was all hot for Ayn Rand until the Wall Street banking industry ate itself. Then he reconsidered his attitude. --Moni3 (talk) 03:32, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Works of love (2011 book)

Hi there. I came across this odd article doing new page patrol. The article is about an alleged book, written by "Wiki Leads", whose article was deleted by you as a creation from a blocked/banned user, and the editor who created Works of love (2011 book) claims to be Dakota Fanning. Not being privy to the details of the block/ban, I thought I would punt it over to you to see how to proceed with the article and the editor. Thanks, 28bytes (talk) 07:29, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Dickinson and her carpets

Y'know, I don't even like the lousy poet. Obviously I am unworthy to edit her precious Wiki article. How did I get myself into this? Three years, millions of views, dozens of vandals and clueless n00bs. I guess I'll "scamper" into semi-retirement and to hell with it. Stupid Wikipedia. Stupid me for caring so much. María (habla conmigo) 21:16, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, petal. How I feel your pain. The current talk page at TKaM feels like me singing "You and Me Against the World" with myself. It's not even current stuff or really very strong, just a lot of folks coming to make some random complaint and it somehow becoming about me. I wish I could do more at Dickinson, and I'll do my best when the carpet discussion turns to carpet munching again, but the criticism is far outside my realm of knowledge. One other person shining a light on commentary that's turning very close to douchebaggery may be helpful I hope. Chin up. Let me know what I can do, if anything. --Moni3 (talk) 21:54, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I thought I was the one who was meant to scamper as I made the edit. Oh, well. I don't like Dickinson either, but do know about New Criticism. I'm gone today, but will have a look at the progress tomorrow. And Moni3, I seem to have unwatched TKAM as well, but can always give a hand there. Un-Truthkeeper88 (talk) 22:32, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Untruthkeeper*, don't you know I -- as the de facto owner of this crappy excuse for an article -- am meant to do the scampering? I mean, come on. Who do you think you are? Seriously, with the troubles we've encountered with Pound, TKaM, ED... we all have crappy choice in pet projects. Thank you guys for the back scratching, it's definitely a comfort to know things ain't too crazy just yet. María (habla conmigo) 22:54, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

_{* I can't believe it's come to this. I almost expect them to start calling me "Diarrhea" instead of "Maria"; one of my fave nicknames from elementary school, btw. María (habla conmigo) 22:54, 12 March 2011 (UTC)}

mainpage...

It was almost soporofic -someone asked a question which was nice. I'm no expert as I've killed plenty of the damn things though...Casliber (talk · contribs) 12:12, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Newsletter

Hi, how do i receive the LGBT Studies newsletter? Thanks 81.137.240.118 (talk) 16:25, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I haven't been a member of that project for years. You should ask them at WT:LGBT. --Moni3 (talk) 16:52, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply =]

81.137.240.118 (talk) 08:26, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Roy Orbison

I'm stunned that you reverted my edits regarding the Roy Orbison 75th birthday tributes. I worked on that section for hours today and don't agree/understand your rationale. Every statement that I made was legitimately sourced. Kmzundel (talk) 02:13, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

The sources you used belong to two tribute entertainers (DaveCollison.com. http://davecollison.com/entertainment/2011/03/official-uk-roy-orbison-75th-birthday-bash Official UK Roy Orbison 75th Birthday Bash), (Proctors.com. http://www.proctors.org/events/roy-orbison-75th-anniversary-tribute Roy Orbison 75th Anniversary Tribute) and two YouTube videos showing other performers singing Roy Orbison songs. None are considered to fall within the scope of reliable sources because they are not fact-checked by editorial oversight for accuracy. They are self-published sources by the entertainers who would directly benefit by the information in Orbisons' article, making it a conflict of interest to place them there.

The last source, belonging to artistsdirect.com [1] is also kind of questionable. It doesn't say who is in the photo at the top of the page--that isn't Orbison but someone dressed like him. It's not clear if that is a story posted to sell Sony's album of Orbison songs. The last line, asking readers what their favorite Orbison song is, kind of cements the fact that this does not seem to be an objective source.

The release of Sony's album, eh, could be kind of notable I guess. The release of an album after a performer's death on specific anniversaries is pretty common. Here is a better source for it. I searched for "Roy Orbison 75th birthday" in Google News. That's where the best sources are going to be for this. His birthday isn't for another two weeks or so, so your addition was an announcement of events that have not yet occurred. That's harder to find reliable sources for, but for good reason. Most news outlets don't report on future events, and quite often information about what has not occurred on Wikipedia violates Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. When news outlets report on what has happened, that is the time to consider adding a little bit of information to the article. With caution, to avoid violating the recentism guideline.

In spite of all this, I understand your disappointment and I know what it is like to spend an hour or so writing a paragraph or such to have it reverted or changed almost instantly. I know it doesn't feel good. I get Orbison's Facebook feed, showing numerous announcements about events that are coming up in anticipation of his birthday. I think there will be news about what's going to happen, but we just have to sit tight and wait for better sources to report it. When they do, I'll be happy to collaborate with you on the best way to integrate information about Orbison, his style, his influence, and other notable issues into the article. --Moni3 (talk) 13:46, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Mass deletion by an editor at the Heterosexualization article

You may want to weigh in on this: Talk:Heterosexualization#Not only an LGBT issue. An editor (Masculinity), one I have long viewed as problematic in his editing, removed reliably sourced and relevant material from the article all because he feels the article is too associated with LGBT issues. Because of this, I have restored the article prior to his changes. He may revert me or continue deleting, however, and I do not feel like battling/arguing with him. At least not alone. Flyer22 (talk) 00:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

If you care

Hello, Moni3. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— Guerillero | My Talk 23:38, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

ogg files

None of my business of course and I'm butting in, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ceoil or one of his music buddies are proficient with ogg files and wouldn't mind helping. Anyway, thought I'd throw out the idea before you go crazy with frustration. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I just really got super highly motivated to figure it out for myself. And it finally worked. Goddammit. Ceoil or anyone who is knowledgeable can look over my uploads to make sure the sound quality is within the right parameters. I'll post links to the files when I'm done. --Moni3 (talk) 23:45, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

The sound files that are proliferating are starting to annoy me; just because they exist doesn't mean the pages should be littered with them. Symphony No. 3 (Górecki) is quite a lovely article where the ogg files are supported by the text. Stick to your argument. Ceoil isn't around much these days but he does seem to check in and I'm sure will respond eventually if you leave him a message. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 23:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

My first converted sound files. If any TPS knowledgeable about fair use sounds can assist, please look at the first two of these to ensure they are within the parameters for NFCC. Much appreciated.

• File:Amazing Grace - Judy Collins 1970.ogg
• File:Amazing Grace-The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards 1972.ogg
• File:Amazing Grace - Sacred Harp Singing Society.ogg

And, because I'm on a Mac (yay!) I was unable to download this version (crap!) of the song, which I think would illustrate the article quite nicely. It's also not available on iTunes. If anyone knows how to get this, I'd appreciate that help, too. Thanks. --Moni3 (talk) 00:29, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Hope it's OK if I just chime in here. Oh MAN! That Ray Charles clip is so good it almost makes me feel physically ill to listen to it! Very, very powerful and adds a GREAT DEAL to the article. On the other hand, I no longer feel that Slim Whitman should be in the yodeling article just because I like him so much. Perhaps Franzl Lang since yodeling began in the Alps would be the best choice.

BTW, about that Ray Charles song, I strongly suspect that it comes from an old gandy dancer work chant. Years ago when there was a lot more information on the web I learned about an old chant wherein the caller would sing about different women in a red dress, yellow dress, etc., working up to the woman that wore a certain color dress that would put out. If you read the article you will see that sexual imagery was the most powerful energy of all, to be used when the caller was having trouble getting the men to work hard. Watch that video that is mentioned in the article and watch this one at Folkstreams too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oms6o8m4axg&feature=related Of course, maybe you've seen these. Gandydancer (talk) 04:27, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

I am too swamped to even think about it this month, but there's an RFC/U in TonyTheTiger's future if these behaviors continue. It was one thing to deal with it at FAC, which was "my job", but when it extends to other FAs, it may warrant broader attention. I seem to recall I received e-mail threats from him within the past six months, but will have to look that up-- don't store that sorta thing in long-term memory :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:28, 15 April 2011 (UTC)