Talk:Shipping Forecast

Does anyone ever call them "weather areas"?

Minches

There was a sea area between Hebrides and Bailey, I think, called Minches. Not sure when it was discontinued (1960s probably) Any other former areas which could or should be listed? Alsager boy 11:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

• Minches was still in use, albeit only for two of the four daily bulletins, in 1983. It was invariably grouped with Hebrides, which may be why it was discontinued and absorbed into Hebrides. Jess Cully 22:31, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Sailing By

I have created a fresh article under this name - have linked to it from the Shipping Forecast article. Just wondered what would be the legal position of me uploading my recording? At present I've linked to an online file, but I have a recording of the whole thing...

hello i am a student studying the shipping forecast, i am to create a profile on a typical listener of the report, if you are a listener of the shipping forecast, your help would be greatly appreciated if you could answer a few questions i have for you ... thanks. emma.

The forecast is always the same number of words long???

I don't believe this! Will remove unless anybody objects. --Auximines 19:59, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Already done it. ;)

It is indeed the case - I will try to track down a reference. It was discussed on an episode of Feedback sometime toward the end of last year. JonoP 11:26, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Found it [1]. I was slightly wrong - the rule is that it has a maximum length of 350 words (Rule J seems to be the applicable rule, rather than D). JonoP 11:46, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I am adding info on the strct formatting and maximum length back in. JonoP 11:49, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Spelling of Utsire

The link Utsire actually goes to Utsira with an 'a'. Is this a different Utsire/Utsira, or are there two spellings, or has the BBC just got it wrong all these years? For the record, the BBC's spelling is definitely with an 'e' (as in the article): http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/shipping/

I think this is a simple issue of the English (and German) name for the place being spelt slightly differently from the Norwegian name. 82.36.26.229 02:22, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

If that's the case, then the English spelling should be used on English Wikipedia, as per Munich and Rome Jooler 19:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the name of the place in Norway is always UtsirA, and the UtsirE spelling is used only for the shipping-forecast sea area. I have added a link to shipping forecast from Utsira. Snalwibma 21:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

How the Norwegians spell it is a matter for the Norwegian wiki. If it's on the English wiki then it should be spelled the English way. You can imagine the hassle of correcting all the entries for Londres on the French wiki to London, can't you?Jatrius (talk) 17:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Is there a better map?

It would be nice if there were a better map for reference. The map provided is OK, but (1) It is too low a resolution (2) It doesn't show lat/lon lines (3) It is missing a few areas and (4) It doesn't indicate locations of the coastal weather stations. Something somewhat better is at [2], though it has older names and is of course not public domain. Is there anyone who has better, or who is willing to make one? Mlouns 06:04, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Never mind -- did it myself. Result is in Image:ShippingZones2.JPG , now in the article. Mlouns 09:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

the introduction of Fisher in 1955, when Dogger was split in two.

That would have meant that Dogger was a very strange shape, according to the map.

--88.160.64.2 17:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

First and last

The last broadcast of the Shipping Forecast at 0048 each day ...

The 0048 broadcast is, of course, the first Shipping Forecast of the day. -- Picapica 21:37, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Finisterre & Fitzroy

FitzRoy was named Finisterre until February 2002, when it was renamed after Robert FitzRoy to avoid confusion with Spanish area of the same name.

Not sure this is correct; the Fitzroy area touches Cape Finisterre in Spain. I believe the change was to avoid confusion with the French area of Finistère, which is in Brittany and is not contiguous with Fitzroy. JXM 16:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The French Finistère is not a sea area so there could be no possible confusion. The Spanish Finisterre was a sea area (it was not a reference to the cape,) albeit covering a different region to the British Finisterre so this is from where confusion arose. I have changed it back and provided links to news reports from that time confirmingh the situation. --Cherry blossom tree 17:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Globalize??

I'm confused about why the article has been tagged as not representing a "worldwide view". Granted, there is some room for general improvement, but it's not clear to me what is specifically lacking that would support a worldwide viewpoint. The piece is about a long-standing radio broadcast in the UK, which has become something of a folk tradition. Does it perhaps need to be situated more in the context of other meterological reports around the world? JXM 00:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree entirely. I think that is what it means, but since nobody has ever bothered to try to edit this page to reflect a global opinion, it clearly isn't worthy of a mention. If it were so important, somebody would have edited it by now. Alex Holowczak 17:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't make sense. Following that argument you could say that we may as well close Wikipedia since anything that hasn't already been added clearly isn't worth adding. I think the issue has arisen over a confusion whether this article refers to the Shipping Forecast as broadcast by the BBC or shipping forecasts in general. --Cherry blossom tree 17:36, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I added the tag becuase I thought the term Shipping Forecast is too generic to be about a specific BBC program. There are probably Shipping Forecasts all around the world. So my thought was that the title should specify that we're dealing with a BBC program, or, the article should be amended to describe all types of shipping forecasts around the globe (or both). __meco 17:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I think Shipping Forecast (note the capitals) is a perfectly adequate title for an article about the radio programme. There probably should be an article about maritime weather forecasting but that's a different article. --Cherry blossom tree 18:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I would suggest "Shipping Forecast (BBC radio program)" or something similar. However, I'll remove the tag as this is not something I have strong views about. __meco 18:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

But if this was moved then what would go at Shipping Forecast? --Cherry blossom tree 18:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

How about renaming the article to "UK Shipping forecast" or "BBC's Radio 4 Shipping Forcast". This article discusses only the UK shipping forecast. At first, "Shipping Forecast" will become a redirect page, but it can be expanded into an article if anyone wants to talk about shipping forecasts in general, or it could even become a disambiguation page if there are articles about shipping forecasts in other countries. Ae-a 00:26, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

If there is to be a general article about shipping forecasts it should be at maritime weather forecast or something similar, unless it can be demonstrated that "shipping forecast" is a common term in use all over the world to refer to such forecasts. As far as I'm aware, "the Shipping Forecast" (capitalized as in this article) always refers to the Met Office/BBC one. And as that is its name, it is standard Wikipedia practice not to add any qualifier unless necessary for the purpose of disambiguation. --Blisco 22:45, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Alteration to 'Broadcast format' section

I have amended the function of 'Sailing By', as the previous entry was not entirely correct Fortnum (talk) 13:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Medium Wave (MW)

In northern Germany, I heard BBC Radio 4 Shipping Forecast on MW 1449 kHz on 7 Dec 2009 at 00:48 UTC and 17:54 UTC. Should also MW frequencies be given, as in Marveterraporto? --Onklo (talk) 20:28, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Coastal Stations

Why does this article on the BBC Shipping Forecast go into total irrelevances, and yet does not list or a map of "Coastal Stations"; which are as much a part of the Shipping Forecast, as the sea areas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.194.5.243 (talk) 01:17, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Click on the map to open it in its own page - the key to the map names the Coastal Stations, which are shown on the map by numbered red dots. --Kay Dekker (talk) 01:10, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

The shipping forecast on other stations

Notwithstanding this article only referring to the concept of a Shipping Forecast in the UK (which I find hard to believe is the only country to have shipping forecasts, indeed there is an indication within the article that RTE broadcasts one), but what about shipping forecasts on stations other than the BBC? Did ILR ever carry them? And what about on television? There's evidence of television shipping forecasts here being shown on ITV, as this very bizarre example shows! (about 1:55 in)... -- Fursday 14:14, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

A very good point. In fact the linked article in the Esperanto Wikipedia – here – has a very good table giving details of most if not (probably) all the radio shipping forecasts in northern Europe. One of these days I must get around to translating it into English! -- Picapica (talk) 12:09, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

There are similar standing programmes, broadcasting a few times a day, in most Northern European countries that have a coastline at least, and no doubt in N and S America too, and elsewhere. The general format is roughly similar to the BBC's in Scandinavia at least, and just like in the UK; it's become a recognized and sometimes parodied part of the media environment. A general article listing these programmes in different parts of the world would be quite interesting. 83.254.159.232 (talk) 00:11, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Why has the link to the Esperanto article been removed?

The Esperanto article (here) is both on the Shipping Forecast and maritime weather services in general. --Onklo (talk) 16:52, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Jon Burton, 6, 7 MOVING WESTERLY IN HEAVY ROTATION. Why has this NOT been linked? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.144.132.166 (talk) 02:35, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Explanation

More details explanation of examples such as "Low, Rockall, 987, deepening rapidly, expected Fair Isle 964 by 0700 tomorrow" possible? 81.96.166.19 (talk) 19:28, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

On the General Synopsis that would mean that there is a low pressure (987 millibars) at rockall, becoming rapidly lower (the hint is that it will be 964 millibars lower at Fair Isle tomorrow morning); a storm but not a particularly severe one. It is implied that a north-westerly wind will take it there.

Si Trew (talk) 06:36, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Who issues it?

This morning on the 5.20 forecast on Radio 4 it was plain issued "by the Met Office", and not "on behalf of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency". I am wondering whether perhaps that quango has now been abolished; it may have been a simple omission of course. This may have not been the first time it was omitted from the bulletin; just the first time I noticed it.

Si Trew (talk) 06:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Let's talk about the introductory statement...

Information doesn't hurt. But there's a place for it. In my view going into organisational structure of the Met Office and MCA in the introductory paragraph is overkill. Those interested in whether the former is a "commercial trading fund owned by the Ministry of Defence" can find that out just by clicking on it. For everyone else, it's trivia and doesn't belong here. Another editor disagrees with me - that's 50:50 then - so let's have some input! Egg Centric 22:31, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

You and I may be seasoned experts in the structure of the British government, but should an American (they do exist!) or an Armenian or a Malawian want to read the article, it's quite important that they realise the shipping forecast is a government project rather than merely a commercial/broadcasting one. As WP:LEDE says, an article introduction should "establish the context," and the Ministry of Defence, MCGA and DfT are an inextricable part of the context. (Incidentally, if you think that "50:50" has any relevance here, then you are utterly mistaken.) ╟─TreasuryTag►contemnor─╢ 07:29, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Good point re 50:50. Therefore I don't need to bother convincing you. Egg Centric 21:30, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I strongly suggest you don't edit-war over this or you may be receiving yet another block. ╟─TreasuryTag►Regent─╢ 23:11, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Illustration of principle

I don't see that I have to convince you, but as I am kind and know that you're acting in good faith, I will provide a few introductory paragraphs from other random articles and how they would appear if written how you seem to want this one to be:

Oppositional defiant disorder

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a controversial diagnosis described by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) as an ongoing pattern of disobedient, hostile and defiant behavior toward authority figures which goes beyond the bounds of normal childhood behavior. People who have it may appear very stubborn and angry.

would become

Oppositional defiant disorder (ODD) is a controversial diagnosis described by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM - a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association which provides a common language and standard criteria for the classification of mental disorders) as an ongoing pattern of disobedient, hostile and defiant behavior toward authority figures which goes beyond the bounds of normal childhood behavior. People who have it may appear very stubborn and angry.

Nuisance

Nuisance (also spelled nocence, through Fr. noisance, nuisance, from Lat. nocere, "to hurt") is a common law tort. It means that which causes offence, annoyance, trouble or injury. A nuisance can be either public (also "common") or private. A public nuisance was defined by English scholar Sir J. F. Stephen as, <snip>

would become

Nuisance (also spelled nocence, through Fr. noisance, nuisance, from Lat. nocere, "to hurt") is a common law (law developed by judges through decisions of courts and similar tribunals rather than through legislative statutes or executive branch action) tort (a wrong that involves a breach of a civil duty (other than a contractual duty) owed to someone else.). It means that which causes offence, annoyance, trouble or injury. A nuisance can be either public (also "common") or private. A public nuisance was defined by English scholar Sir J. F. Stephen as, <snip>

Jobsworth

"Jobsworth" is a British colloquial word deriving from the phrase "I can't do that, it's more than my job's worth", meaning that taking the initiative by performing an action, and perhaps in the process breaking a rule, is beyond what the person feels their job description allows. The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as "A person in authority (esp. a minor official) who insists on adhering to rules and regulations or bureaucratic procedures even at the expense of common sense." Jonathon Green similarly defines "jobsworth" as "a minor factotum whose only status comes from enforcing otherwise petty regulations".

would become

"Jobsworth" is a British colloquial word deriving from the phrase "I can't do that, it's more than my job's worth", meaning that taking the initiative by performing an action, and perhaps in the process breaking a rule, is beyond what the person feels their job description allows. The Oxford English Dictionary (said to be the premier dictionary of the English language by its own publisher.) defines it as "A person in authority (esp. a minor official) who insists on adhering to rules and regulations or bureaucratic procedures even at the expense of common sense." Jonathon Green similarly defines "jobsworth" as "a minor factotum whose only status comes from enforcing otherwise petty regulations".

In all the examples above we see how silly, and frankly, anti-wiki, it is to include this sort of information and swell the opening paragraph when it is all available to the interested reader with one click. I believe the version of shipping forecast that doesn't include the technicalities about the Met Office's corporate structure is more concise and per above more in line with accepted practice (no matter how many capital letters or threats you throw around) and that is why I am going to put it back. Egg Centric 14:49, 2 July 2011 (UTC)