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:::::Pretty late in the day, however, 2) did wake the arbs up. Replying over and over in a thread he wasn't allowed to read (and that I wasn't able to read), Jimbo composed his own motion for the arbs to copy. Some bits, as per WR:
:::::Pretty late in the day, however, 2) did wake the arbs up. Replying over and over in a thread he wasn't allowed to read (and that I wasn't able to read), Jimbo composed his own motion for the arbs to copy. Some bits, as per WR:


::::::Jimbo: "Bishonen is instructed to accept Jimbo's generous offer to note her block log with a mutually agreeable statement about the incident." [I wonder if I've ever seen that type of remedy offered in an RFAR case: "A is ''instructed'' to accept B's generous offer". No, I don't think I have. Anybody?] "What needs to be done here is a full acknowledgement that throughout this entire process, Bishonen has been wrong." "Because of his special historical importance and governance role within the English Wikipedia, actions taken and comments made by {{Admin:Jimbo Wales}} typically receive a high degree of attention and deference, and may be perceived as exercises of Jimbo Wales' special status as founder/project leader, even when not intended as such. In this case, the block was intended as such, and as an expression of policy on admin behavior. This block is therefore fully affirmed by the Arbitration Committee as an expression of policy." (I'm only quoting; I don't know or care why Jimbo's template is malformed.)
::::::Jimbo: "Bishonen is instructed to accept Jimbo's generous offer to note her block log with a mutually agreeable statement about the incident." [I wonder if I've ever seen that type of remedy offered in an RFAR case: "A is ''instructed'' to accept B's generous offer". No, I don't think I have. Anybody?] "What needs to be done here is a full acknowledgement that throughout this entire process, Bishonen has been wrong." "Because of his special historical importance and governance role within the English Wikipedia, actions taken and comments made by {{Admin|Jimbo Wales}} typically receive a high degree of attention and deference, and may be perceived as exercises of Jimbo Wales' special status as founder/project leader, even when not intended as such. In this case, the block was intended as such, and as an expression of policy on admin behavior. This block is therefore fully affirmed by the Arbitration Committee as an expression of policy." (I'm only quoting; I don't know or care why Jimbo's template is malformed.)


:::::: [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 14:17, 16 July 2011 (UTC).
:::::: [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 14:17, 16 July 2011 (UTC).

Revision as of 14:34, 16 July 2011



Grow your own clique

Latest wikipedia news: Jimbo acts to avert growing crisis: Following an impassioned plea from Jimbo Wales, the Lady Catherine Augusta Amelia Gladys de Burgh has kindly and gracuously agreed to take over the Arbcom, pending investigations into the conduct of current members who should (in her ladyship's opinion) be flogged and suspended without pay. All requests for arbitration to Her Ladyship should be conveyed through her factotum, Mrs Bishonen, or one of the various "animals" and members of the clique with which Mrs Bishonen so charmingly currounds herself.


[In a breathless, excited tone:] Can I, please, can I, can I, can I, pleeeeeeease? [1] --Famously Sharp (talk) 19:23, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid you can't, because I misspoke to Giano when (disgruntledly) I happened to mention Arbitrator Iridescent's tarring of us as a clique here (and a "sleuthing" Malleus-hostile clique at that): I should have quoted it as the "Giano and Bishonen's clique", not "the Bishonen and Giano clique." As much as my version, with my name more prominently placed, is naturally the one with "a certain ring to it", I'm afraid you must strive to forget it, as it's incorrect. Anyway, you know we all bow down to you as Founding Member of the Bishzilla Harem Clique. Bishonen | talk 20:15, 27 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
So who exactly belongs in this clique anyway? I assume Iridescent includes yours truly and Rexx in that clique, but can 4 people actually be called a clique? Perhaps Iri is including all of the Bish-socks and Baby Tex in there somewhere? Tex (talk) 13:01, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • An what pray, young man, leads you to beleive that you have been accepted into this very influential group of thinkers and intellectuals such as myself? I have perused all these "leaks" on WR and am surprised not to find any mention of me, especially after I have had to strenously rebuff several of them for making propositions of an extremelt disageable nature, just the sort of salacious gossip that would tittilate those on WR - a poor, weak, defencelss woman (like myself) fighting for her honour and modesty, yet not one mention. Lady Catherine Rollbacker-de Burgh (the Late) (talk) 13:47, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, My Lady, my humble apologies. I can't believe I overlooked the Late Great One. I would never deem myself worthy to be included in your company without your permission. Now excuse me as I grovel at your feet. Tex (talk) 14:02, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
But... but ... but ... what of us poor meager peons who simply want to improve our writing skills? Is there nowhere we can turn for leadership? — Ched :  ?  14:05, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The clique is becoming more famous still. From here [2]:

"Yes, I think you are right that there will be *relatively* little drama if we forcibly removed him. He's not in the middle of a Giano/Bishonen intrigue, and would be hard pressed to frame this as ArbCom 2009 incompetence." It seems that we are not just a clique, but we "intrigue" too. How i wish that we had known of our magical powers over the Arbcom. However, for poor old David Garard (of whom they are talking) it looksmore like a case of the spooky curse [3]. Do you remember when he checkused me for the first time, way back in 2004 or was it 05 - if only people listened to me more, we coul dall be saved such a lot of fuss. Giacomo (talk) 08:23, 29 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Can Gooch be part of "intrigue"? Me likey intrigue! Goochy Oooh, pretty! 18:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. Intrigue rights need to be earned! Little Gooch will be most welcome intriguer after another 10,000 edits. Bishonen | talk 19:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

A promise

Darwinbish, the living nightmare

I will never accuse your sockpuppets of actually being sockpuppets. They scare me. I had nightmares last night, dreaming of being eaten buy pigzilla, godzilla and bishzilla. I want my dreams to only include Megan Fox or Kirsten Dunst. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 22:36, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Little Kirstenzilla? Granted as soon as asked! Go ahead and dream! [Well pleased with scaring OrangeMarlin witless, Darwinbish files her teeth to a new, exacting standard of sharpness and goes off to scare some more unsuspecting users. ] little ankle biter 23:04, 27 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Frosted chocolate cupcakes

Most happy to deliver. .... OUCH! Something bit my ankle [hears 'tee hee hee' laughter] Hi there Ms. Bishonen. :D — Ched :  ?  23:40, 27 June 2011 (UTC) <Ched runs off to find band-aids>[reply]

(e/c) [Bishonen is fascinated by the delicious look of the chocolate cupcakes. ] But who has bitten one of them..?... oh. I spoke without thinking there, sorry. Darwinbish! It's past your bedtime! Off you go! No, you may not bring a cupcake. Just brush your sharp little teeth! Bishonen | talk 23:52, 27 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

PS ... sorry for the missing bite in the one .. but I simply can't resist chocolate. :) — Ched :  ?  23:42, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good heavens, it wasn't Darwinbish after all? Well I never! And you, young man, brush your teeth and go to bed! Bishonen | talk 23:52, 27 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
young man? ... WOOOO HOOOOO .... you just made my night. Haven't been called that in <cough, cough> years. :) [looks for toothbrush, decides to just put the teeth in a cup with those cleaning tablets over night.] — Ched :  ?  00:46, 28 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I thought that would tickle your fancy. It's not as if I don't remember the trike you made for your grandson! Not that any of that prevents me from being old enough to be your grandmother, what with having written Jane Eyre and all. [Demented cackle. ] Goodnight, mr Thackery, best regards to your good lady the Madwoman in the Attic ! Bishonen | talk 02:33, 28 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]

A cupcake for you!

New "Wiki-Love" thingy has cupcakes!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!! Goochy Oooh, pretty! 18:49, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ah.. excellent. Hans is very strict about permitting no Wikilove on his page, I find; I hope he doesn't starve to death for the sake of his principles. On my page, a reasonable amount of Wikilove is acceptable when (and only when) edible, and delicious-looking! Hmmm... it seems rather a long time since I was last RfC'd with cupcakes, doesn't it? Any ideas, little Gooch? It doesn't really matter how thin the RfC substance is; you may wish to consult User:FT2 for suggestions there.[4] Bishonen | talk 19:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Little Gooch like to RFC puny 'Shonen's puter! Puter close itself? Is possessed? Goochy Oooh, pretty! 13:11, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ya. Is embarrassing to admit, but puter is possessed by little hack hidden in its innards by family tech. This hack puts the puter to sleep at 2:15 AM, local time, every night and it's impossible to wake before 8 AM. The point of it is to make me sleep at least part of the night, by preventing me from hanging on the internet at all hours. It's what I have instead of willpower. It was done at my request, so please don't RfC... Bishonen | talk 14:49, 1 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]
ohhhh my ... a new RfC? ... OWW.... I can please to close another one? — Ched :  ?  13:34, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Tell me what you got and I'll think about it. Cupcakes? Pizza? Thai takeout? Sukiyaki? (Highly favoured, that. "Winter dish"? Rubbish, bring it on!) Bishonen | talk 14:49, 1 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]
I kind of lament that numba 4 got deleted. That was my alternate account's finest hour! I know that little HeimAway will never have the majesty Bishzilla and her ilk have, but really, did his triumphant delivery of cupcakes have to get flushed down the deleted archive toilet so unceremoniously? Heimstern Läufer (talk) 13:58, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note however the offer on my userpage to undelete that RfC for anybody who's interested. I quite agree it's too fine a thing to be confined to little admins. And feel free to undelete any portion of it and place on own page to add majesty, little HeimAway! Bishonen | talk 14:49, 1 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

On deleting the spinning Bishzilla :-(

Sigh. Things are changing too fast for me around here. File:Bishzilla spin.gif has been nominated at "Files for deletion" as "Orphaned, Low Quality, Unencyclopedic, no foreseeable use."[5]. There is no alert about it on my page or on Bishzilla's page (what's that about?); though there is one on the page of Bunchograpes, the creator of the image, who has only very sporadically looked in since he left in 2007. :-( Bishonen | talk 14:20, 3 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Why not copy the image, use some drawing program to add a penis to it and re-upload it? Even if it is never, ever used in any way you will find that very many people will contest any attempt to delete it... LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:46, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ya know, Mr. vanU, while your statement may be made in jest (or not?), it is sadly right on the money. Just turn it into porn and it will live on forever at Wikipedia! Long Live Porn! Tex (talk) 21:07, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Are you inferring that I was seriously suggesting that Her Bishoneniness might be given to adding drawings of willies on her menageries portraits? LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:35, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Easier said than done: the pic won't stay still long enough to draw the willie on it. --Famously Sharp (talk) 23:23, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Most of us fear Bishzilla enough already without adding to her psyche a load of gender confusion. The horror, the horror! She'd probably join Wikipedia Review and light their server on fire. Antandrus (talk) 00:18, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dammit...I for one find the gif highly encyclopedic and have therefore added it to my now rarely visited...usertalk page. If the wrath of Bishzilla isn't enough to convince the weak minded the importance of retaining this gif, then wait till they get a load of me...--MONGO 04:06, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • GRRRawRRRR ... who say delete little(?)/big(?)/younger(?) .. hummph .. think .... "born first" sister profile pic? ... Me have words at silly XfD. mother and father make Chedzilla to protect sister. Ms. Bishonen is ... Aunt? Hmmmm ... must work on sig. when time. And what is "clique" thingy? Is good or bad? And hello to all sharp teeth family. Chedzilla (talk) 17:57, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Giano and Bishonen clique" thingy is a quotation from, uh, an arbitrator whose e-mails were published on Wikipedia Review. The suggestion was that this clique might be expected to hunt down Malleus Fatuorum if he attempted to hide on wiki. Neither Giano nor I expected such an... assumption from that person. See Giano's comment here. Me Bishzilla's aunt? LOL. I think of little 'shonen more as the keeper and Bishzilla as the ... pet, I suppose. Large, independent-minded pet. We both appreciate little Chedzilla's words on FfD! Sharp teeth, hmm... maybe I send sharptoothed young Darwinbish there for further chilling effect on anybody minded to vote "delete"? Though it hardly seems necessary, as Bishzilla's fans have asserted themselves nobly! Hello there MONGO and Antandrus! Bishonen | talk 20:41, 4 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]
      • Yes, I did see that. I never did understand the mindset of someone who would do such a thing though. I had honestly considered closing as a "Snow Keep" .. but couldn't resist the urge to create(?) Chedzilla. Have actually wanted to do that for years, and it just seem like the perfect time. I was glad to see the FfD going the way it is. I tend to talk to you and your ... ummmm ... "pets(s)" much more than some of the others in your group(?). I wouldn't be shocked if I found that Giano wasn't even aware of me to be honest. (although if I ever do an article on any type of architecture, I'd be quick to introduce myself.) I have commented in a thread or two to the Late Lady Cathrine (sp?), and apologies if it's wrong. I have however worked with LessHeard vanU a few times on policy and guideline related things. Great guy. Perhaps it's my being on the wrong side of that big pond? ... :) Cheers and best Ms. Bishonen. — Ched :  ?  21:04, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Scariest: the great Bishzilla Blink
madness. Per Mongo, I added it to my user page as well. I suppose this makes us part of the evil-to-arb-giano-bishonen-clique? --Rocksanddirt (talk) 20:34, 5 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. Evil clique represented by spinning monster? Why not. Though I always think Bishzilla Blink looks scarier. When she shows up, the little arbs scatter with screams of terror. Welcome to the fearless clique! Bishonen | talk 23:32, 5 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]
How is clique pronounced? Is it "click" or should it rhyme with Greek? I need to know, so I am certain to what I am not a member... LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:52, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's actually spelled Raymond Luxury-Yacht but pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove. Bishonen | talk 22:06, 9 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]
"Clique", Mr Les Heard, is pronounced to rhyme with the widow - not that you could possibly be expected to know that, and no you certainly are not a member, I have seen your comments about one of my dearest friends (no, not you Mrs Bishonen) an icon of our time elsewhere and was quite horrified. It's that's horrible, nasty little man, Ted Heath, who is to be blamed for our glorious nation's ills - Comon Market indeed! Foreigners everywhere cluttering up the underground and gates to Buckingham palace; I have even seen one of them in Harrods Food Hall - one wonders who won the war! Lady Catherine Rollbacker-de Burgh (the Late) (talk) 22:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, so there is a Mr Bishonen... Might he be described as a member? LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:40, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, then the "high breeding" to which you refer must be the practice of promenading with ones nose in the air! LessHeard vanU (talk) 23:28, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't boast a harem like Bishzilla either. I wonder if those guys of hers are in the clique? Some richly deserve to be, like Muzzy and the great T-Rex (if only he'd stop trying to escape! Quick, Bishzilla, stick Rex back in your pocket!) while others are more of just a pretty face. Zilla, you're a susceptible old dino, aren't you? Bishonen | talk 10:58, 10 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

FACs

I think I may nominate "Exploding" for FA - do any of us know how to do it any more - I'm not going to bother with GA and all that silly business - what fo you think? Giacomo Returned 17:56, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is it the one presently called "Destruction" bla bla? I'll take a look. Hey, at a glance I can see it needs a WP:LEDE! I think I know how to nom on FAC, at least I will know as soon as somebody explains how to handle the mysterious "archive" thing. I've sent out some feelers about that. Bishonen | talk 21:06, 8 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]
It's got a perfectly good lead, a little long perhpaps, but its a long page. No don't bother to nom it just yet, I just thinking about it - it was written with the intention of being a FA but then I went off FAs during its very long incubation - I shall think on it.Giacomo Returned 21:59, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think I will wait until late November, when I shall have time to devote myself fully to Wikipedia for a while, and give the project my undivided attention. Giacomo Returned 22:07, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just add {{subst:FAC}} to the talk page, hit save, and then edit the red link. It will automatically assign an archive number (1 for the first FAC, 2 for the second, etc.). After you've initiated the FAC, don't forget to transclude the FAC page to WP:FAC. A few years ago, we went to an automatic archival system as that makes it easier for the bot to add FACs to articlehistory on the talk page ... older FACs have no archive number unless there were multiple FACs, but all new FACs are automatically assigned Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/articlename/archive1 for the first FAC. And yes, the rest of my life rocks :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:32, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. E-mail coming. I'm beginning to think the "(substituting Number)" in the instructions is vandalism or something. An attempt to make me spin like Bishzilla, maybe. As for the attacks on your page, they're from an editor I've known for a long time, and I don't think she actually cares which of two versions of a template is better. In my experience her agenda is purely personal. Bishonen | talk 18:21, 9 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Adaptation of Bradspeak

Thanks for pointing out I kept the custom stub tag by accident. I'm so used to mentally reading the wiki-text of a common stub I totally missed it. I also expanded it just a touch. Thanks again. HominidMachinae (talk) 02:26, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. I was a little embarrassed at having messed up the normal template. Sorry it tripped you up. Bishonen | talk 11:33, 13 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

A kitten for you!

Wow, a Wikilove button. Here is some for you, dear Bish.

Lyncs (talk) 14:05, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! Do you have a kitten for Bishzilla too, she's looking a bit hungry? I've been wondering what kind of reply (if any) you got to your request to arbcom. Any joy? Bishonen | talk 17:38, 14 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Somehow, I don't think a kitten would do much for 'zilla; kinda like me eating one peanut. Arb said to put the request on the noticeboard for community input but it is not really worth the trouble. I have little desire to read those walls of text, let alone contribute to them. --Lyncs (talk) 02:27, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nerds to the rescue! Bishzilla looking right in danger!

Zilla fans, help! So.. I've made a turned-around animated Bishzilla blink gif, because I needed one that looked to the right. And tried to upload it to en.wikipedia. The difficulties, and the scolding, and the unconcealed regret that it's not (yet) verboten to do so, that one has to endure when uploading to en.wikipedia has at last gotten too much for me, however, so I gave up and uploaded it to Commons with the help of something called the Upload Wizard or such-like — that, by contrast, was dead easy and much encouraged. Now then, if you go to File:Bishzilla blink right.gif you will be surprised to find yourself on a wikipedia page, not a Commons page, but.. but.. oh, it's so frightening! It's not a real wikipedia page — it's a wraith, a ghost of a page! It doesn't have the normal "edit this page" button at the top, but instead a "create this page". Which I tried to do (among other things, by typing {{keeplocal}} on it), but was I able to? Ha ha, no. Some clever nerd create it and keep it local, please? I do appreciate all the help with the triumphantly rescued Bishzilla spin.[6] Sorry if I'm incoherent.. it's a bit traumatic to suddenly find oneself in the uncreated voids of wikipedia! Bishonen | talk 18:32, 14 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Here you go - Tex (talk) 18:49, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And "Nerds"? Really? I resemble that remark! Tex (talk) 18:53, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Nikkimaria move from new name and make redirect..? Er.. is better? [The 'zilla feels her head beginning to spin in good earnest. ] Looking-right 'zilla safe now? [Coquettishly admires her looking-right likeness. Modestly: ] Pretty handsome! Little Tex, "nerd" is fine compliment! Zilla strive every day to become more nerdy! Nikkimaria nerd too? bishzilla ROARR!! 19:07, 14 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]
  • oooo, is much better. Thank you Nikkimaria! Did you have to be an admin to do that? I couldn't get it to create at that old name, so I had to upload it at a different name. Anyway, thanks! --Little Nerdy Tex 19:22, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
    Think so - wanted to "override shared repository" or something else that sounded vaguely technological. Anyways, since Nikkimaria hangs out on Wikipedia and refers to herself in the third person, she's most likely either a nerd...or a 'Zilla! Nikkizilla (*roars and adjusts taped glasses*) 19:32, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, another 'Zilla! Always room for moar 'Zillas! Although, there's only one Original Zilla! Anyway, the redirect here can probably be deleted since no one would ever look for that file with the Local in the name. Thanks again, Nikkizilla! Tex (talk) 12:26, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Time for a change?

I have been reading WR with growing amazement. I think you, me, he, she, it or another must do something to deal with the abuse that the Arbs have inflicted upon us all. Putting aside the extrememly entheusiastic checkuser use by Jimbo (which seems to have been covered up) of those posting on his talk page, they have allowed other editors to have unfair advantages, access and influence to them which has been to the detriment of both editors and the project.

For instance on the case dealing with you/Jimbo - What as FT2 (not an arbitrator at that time)doing poisoning the well on arbcom-l. Were you told of this - as you shouldhave been? In the same threads, we can see Jimbo, Rlevse, Roger CHL pick up and repeat FT2's lies about you as if they were the gospel truth. We can also observe Jimbo eagerly picking up FT2's trick of "diffs on request." I know of no diffs showing your abusiveness.

Some will say these events all happend a couple of years ago abd dismiss them on that premise, however, many of those Arbs (if not most) remain on the Arbcom no doubt behaving in the same inept and terrible fashion pandering to their chosen favourites, allowing access to chosen editors and copndemning the rest of us on their say so. This is unaceptable and cannot be allowed to conitinue; I think it's time to do something about it. The Arbcom have seriously failed the project - some will say they work tirelssly and without thanks, I say they choose to do so - many of them clammering for further terms and opprtunity; if they won't do the job properly and honestly, then their service should be terminated - it's quite obvious that that termination is not going to come from their (not our) God-King, so they must be condemned by those they claim they are serving. Giacomo Returned 10:03, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is an extent to which this happens in all organizations - I can certainly see it in my own. People who have been around a long time tend to know where the bodies are buried (maybe buried a few of their own) and have influence - or believe they have or should have influence - because of it. If you got all of the present Arbs to resign and leave the project, you would probably find that in five years time, you've just gained a new set. Which is not to say that if you feel so strongly about current individuals, you should abstain from contemplating any action. So - what would you like to happen? --Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:32, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Fortunatly for you Ellen, you are not part of this current mess. However, what do I want? Some assurance of change would be a good start - and explanations from those concerned as to such things as wtf was FT2 doing influencing decisions? Why was Bishonen not given all the material she was promised - why was Jimbo not heavily censured when they found out what was going on? (please do not refer to the email that was officially never sent) So I think some frank and full ansers and explanations would be an extremely good begining - then the community can decide what it wants to do with these people. As I see it, nothing at all has changed since this case, and is unlikely to, so long as these people remain; I am thinking of the "socking" matter of just a few days ago - cover up after cover up!. Answers Ellen are what are needed - answers and they need to be bloody good ones! Giacomo Returned 11:03, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the kind words. I think (aside from any actual malfeasance, if such there was) that there has been and still is a mindset that 'everything here is confidential' and 'things were said in the expectation that they were confidential', whether or not it is material that ought to be confidential. So information is not released because the individual who generated or the individual in control of it will not permit its release on principle, which I would expect formed at least some of the reason (I don't know for certain of course). In terms of change, I think an immediate declaration that any private correspondence or pages relating to a decision can be released (with personal data redacted if necessary) and that an individual has a right to ask for all the correspondence/pages where they are referred to (similar to a Data subject access request), would be a start. Locking out PD talk pages, and using them so that decidion making can take place in public, should also become good practice. Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:35, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thinking one is "in confidence" does not excuse lies and deceit. When Coren and Shell Kinny called me paranoid, the Arbcom no doubt tittered on its list and permitted them to do so, suddenly I don't appear to be quite so paranoid and the Arbcom are looking like deceitful fools. "Locking out PD talk pages, and using them so that decision making can take place in public, should also become good practice" is something I have been advocating for years; a long time before Jimbo and the Arbcom derided me for saying that their security was worse than useless. It's a start Ellen, but have you seddenly become the only Arb alive? Surely the list is not suddenly silent. Giacomo Returned 12:48, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) The other effect in place, Elen, is the social effect that one could label 'conspiracy' for want of a better word, when a group of people discuss others in what is assumed to be private. I mean that people are tempted into saying things about others that they would not say to their face (or virtual face). The solution is to internally require observance of the principle of integrity – that Arbs who understand that problem remind other Arbs when they overstep the bounds. I can see that that would not help the group to bond, unless the dominant ethos is truly one of openness and integrity, and nobody reading those email exchanges would come to that conclusion at present. Nevertheless, there are sufficient instances of some Arbs being clearly uncomfortable with the unwarranted disparagement of editors that it gives me some hope. I can do no more than encourage you and the other Arbs who understand to take the moral high-ground and hold their "private" exchanges to the highest standards of decorum when discussing others. --RexxS (talk) 12:53, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Good point, Rex. I was somewhat shocked to see the things Rlevse in particular said behind my back, since he was always so pleasant and even flattering when we met. Altogether, I can feel misanthropy engulfing me when I read this list and realise what a lot of case-related list stuff I never saw, though I was living under the childish illusion that I was (eventually) sent everything. Risker kept politely reminding people "Please consider cc'ing your post to Bishonen", but Jimbo mostly, and FT2 consistently, failed to "notice" (my AGF has gotten a bit of a bloody nose, hence the quote marks), as did others. What were the arbs doing accepting FT2's "statement" in that form, anyway? Was he an arb? No. When he ignored John Vandenberg's polite requests to put it on the RFAR page or at least copy it to Bishonen, he got away with that, and with claiming he was able to be perfectly neutral about me. (Me, who had blocked him six months earlier and who had been somewhat instrumental in getting him pushed off the committee! Yeah right.) FT2 gave one of those typically mysterious reasons for submitting his statement by e-mail instead of on the Request for Arbitration page like everybody else: "To avoid giving oxygen to drama and because RFAR looks relatively calm right now, I'm submitting my statement by email even though they are not privacy related." Nothing to do with preventing me from seeing and refuting it, you see, or with it being a thousand words long like all his statements. Up until this moment, I was frankly under the impression that FT2 had such a terrible reputation among arbs that nobody would think the worse of me for anything he said. Well, maybe they didn't; but those that already thought badly of me were obviously prepared to suspend disbelief in FT2 in order to construct a hitherto unfamiliar Bishonen. His series of lies were off-handedly repeated by Jimbo, Roger Davies, Cool Hand Luke until they sounded like axioms:
Jimbo Wales: "Bishonen has been reprimanded and reminded many times over the years", "Bishonen has been a problem for a long time", "a very problematic admin who has abused a lot of people", "Bishonen has a long history of problematic behavior at odds with civility policy" — and on and on. It's like fucking listening to Ottava Rima!
Those who would like to see how incapable FT2 is of coming up with any examples of my abusiveness may be enlightened by his RFC on me. Leave those cupcakes alone, and click on the diffs to sample his dishonest quoting technique. (There you go, FT2, a little present you'll be able to use: "She failed to AGF in accusing editors of being after her baked goods! Bishonen has a history of uncivil accusations!") To those having trouble following me: the last wasn't an actual FT2 quote, it was satire.
For all those arbs who were on the committee then, and are still on it — all of you: there were two major problems with Jimbo's input on the list AFAIC: 1) he tried to threaten/bribe me to withdraw my RFAR request, under your very noses. And 2), he insisted, in a crazed manner — and on a thread he wasn't even supposed to read — on trying to dictate the committee's final motion. I despised your failure to pay the least attention to 1), leaving me alone to fend off stuff like this:
Jimbo: "Indeed, if we go to a case, I am going to push for that [you being desysopped], because I think you've gotten off very lightly so far… whereas if you enter mediation and work with me, I think you'll end up looking quite good."
When I complained about this carrot/stick technique, he was uncomprehending (perhaps as unaccustomed to, and uncomfortable with, ever being contradicted? I don't know). Explaining that when he said he'd "push for" bad things to happen to me, it didn't mean he'd do or say anything, it would just be something that… happened: "Again, that's not a stick. It's an explanation of what is likely to happen." (As a result of incantation, or a rain dance, maybe?) Can I have a show of hands from the people who still think I was wrong in refusing further mediation with this unreasonable fellow, sorry, unreasonable godking? I'm still having trouble believing that nobody on the list even commented, let alone tried to help me fend off such arguments. I still, today, despise that failure. You're not supposed to be Jimbo's court.
Pretty late in the day, however, 2) did wake the arbs up. Replying over and over in a thread he wasn't allowed to read (and that I wasn't able to read), Jimbo composed his own motion for the arbs to copy. Some bits, as per WR:
Jimbo: "Bishonen is instructed to accept Jimbo's generous offer to note her block log with a mutually agreeable statement about the incident." [I wonder if I've ever seen that type of remedy offered in an RFAR case: "A is instructed to accept B's generous offer". No, I don't think I have. Anybody?] "What needs to be done here is a full acknowledgement that throughout this entire process, Bishonen has been wrong." "Because of his special historical importance and governance role within the English Wikipedia, actions taken and comments made by Jimbo Wales (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) typically receive a high degree of attention and deference, and may be perceived as exercises of Jimbo Wales' special status as founder/project leader, even when not intended as such. In this case, the block was intended as such, and as an expression of policy on admin behavior. This block is therefore fully affirmed by the Arbitration Committee as an expression of policy." (I'm only quoting; I don't know or care why Jimbo's template is malformed.)
Bishonen | talk 14:17, 16 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]