Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation/Unidentified locations

Station structure

Ladies & gentlemen,

I'm trying to understand the subject of station structure, in order to fix the Structure field in the infoboxes of the underground stations. The current value, Underground, only means that a station is below the ground level, it doesn't reflect its real structure. The question is what are the options of an underground station structure.

In Russia, where I lived until 20 years ago, the common classification of underground stations goes approximately like this:

• 
  Single-vault station
• 
  Shallow column station
• 
  Deep column station
• 
  Pylon station
• 
  "Horizontal elevator"

I know that in the NYCS there are single-vault stations and no pylon stations and "horizontal elevators". The problem is to distinguish between shallow and deep column stations. I see column stations without any visible difference, located at different depths. Here are some examples of deep stations:

• 
  Single-vault station
• 
  ?
• 
  ?
• 
  ?

These stations are deep, but they don't belong to the deep column station type (partly because the first deep column station in the world was built in 1938 in Moscow and some of the discussed stations opened much before 1938). On the talk pages of the Shallow column station and Deep column station articles somebody wrote 5 years ago that the two articles were translation from Russian (I think so too) and it would be better to merge them together to make them less Russian-centered. I understand that there exists a just column station type, but I can't find any source that describes it.

So, what type are these stations? Vcohen (talk) 17:45, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Deep station of 1932

This classification system is little discussed in connection with NYC. Except for the single vault example, I think these stations are shallow; ie with floors less than about 15m (50ft) below grade and above water level, in tunnels built by cut and cover or similar methods. Deep stations in bored tunnels seldom present their arched ceilings to the photographer, though as in this Brooklyn example, a deep station with columns typically shows the curved wall that resists the pressure of ground water. Jim.henderson (talk) 14:28, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for replying. I have two questions.

1. The first of these three examples is the lower level of 59th Street (IRT Lexington Avenue Line). It's situated below a mezzanine and two other stations, one of them being obviously deep-bored (see the image). It can't be built by cut and cover.
2. If, as you say, "deep stations in bored tunnels seldom present their arched ceilings to the photographer", how can I identify deep stations? Is there any list of them? Vcohen (talk) 16:20, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for my inattention; last night's Wikimedia New York meeting was the last event of a busy week and the new less eventful week should allow me to keep up with correspondence. I don't know of a list of station depths and haven't studied the subway system systematically. I have merely used about half the underground stations including most of the Manhattan ones in the past fifty years and sometimes am able to recall climbing the stairs, thus indicating depth.

Yes, the BMT tunnel is deep but the question of the depth of the IRT platforms above it is one that escapes my fading memory. A week and a half ago, victim of a flat tire in southeastern Yonkers, I carried my bicycle from the E86th Street southbound platform to the street, and vaguely recall that the ceiling was not many yards below the street but that's my nearest possibly relevant datum for a line I seldom use.

As for the arched ceiling above the BMT platform, I hazard a guess that it was made to carry the heavy soil load above it. Presumably the arch over the tracks would be very prominent, if it were exposed, but I don't remember seeing it when changing trains there, last year. Jim.henderson (talk) 17:36, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

OK, I'll think about measuring depths by carrying bicycles on stairs... Vcohen (talk) 20:57, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

Here are two images of the ceiling above the tracks on the lower level of 59th Street (IRT Lexington Avenue Line):

• here it looks flat
• here (at 3:00) it looks rounded

It's most likely that I have to find all stations on Youtube... Vcohen (talk) 13:40, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Missing info

Re Template talk:NYCS rolling stock#Truck centers, What is the distance between truck pivot centers? Peter Horn User talk 22:48, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

The datasheets for every model are at http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/currentfleet.html and http://www.nycsubway.org/cars/retiredfleet.html. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 02:28, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Update naming convention?

(Moved discussion from subpage that no one watches) Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

The "naming convention" section currently reads "For any name that requires an en dash, if there is a space between one or both of the elements, the en dash is spaced, per the WP:MOSDASH guideline." This was once what the MOS called for; however, it (MOS:DASH) was changed in mid-2011 to mandate that en dashes that are part of compounds should be unspaced. When the MOS conflicts with any local project guidelines, the former takes precedence, so this page should be changed to reflect the change in the MOS. Otherwise, it's offering guidance that's misleading at best and incorrect at worst. – TMF 23:34, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I just came here to say the same thing, and saw you beat me to it. I'll update it since nobody has objected. Dicklyon (talk) 00:07, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

If it's decided to perform this change, it will be a good chance to perform another one. The naming convention prescribes to use a slash in names of complexes only, but we have at least 4 single stations with a slash. Vcohen (talk) 12:36, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Otherwise, the Van Cortlandt Park–242nd Street (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) article needs to get back its spaces. Vcohen (talk) 14:01, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

So does that mean Atlantic Avenue – Pacific Street (New York City Subway) will be renamed Atlantic Avenue / Pacific Street (New York City Subway), just because it's a complex, even though the former is the proper name and not the latter? ----DanTD (talk) 14:06, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

IMHO, the current naming convention needs a more thorough development. I don't suggest to do it now. The 4 stations I mentioned are the simplest cases that can be easily fixed. Vcohen (talk) 15:23, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Also Brooklyn Bridge–City Hall / Chambers Street (New York City Subway) needs its spaces back, in case that we decide to rollback the changes. Vcohen (talk) 10:23, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

As I see, Barclays Center has been renamed with the spaces, so this is probably the chosen way. Vcohen (talk) 17:57, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Since this discussion has gone stale, clearly there is no consensus to change the naming convention and rename hundreds of articles. I'm going to move the two non-conforming articles back to their titles as the naming convention prescribes. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:43, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

While updating links to Barclays Center...

When a link describes a historical subject, should I still change it to Barclays Center or use a redirect? Also, what should I do with its displayed text, after the pipe, should I change it to Barclays Center or leave as is? Vcohen (talk) 17:55, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Update the link to the new title, but leave the piped text as the old title. For example, [[Atlantic Avenue – Barclays Center (IRT Eastern Parkway Line)|Atlantic Avenue]]. A similar situation is that V trains formerly terminated at Lower East Side – Second Avenue but the station is now named Second Avenue. Acps110 ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:01, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Vcohen (talk) 18:09, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

New template

I have created a new template, {{NYCS const}}.

It's intended to concentrate useful pieces of text in one place and update them only once when the reality changes. As of now, it supports two types of data, defined by the first parameter.

1. If the first parameter is color, the template returns the name of the corresponding color, as it appears in trunk line tables here and here, with a link to an article about the color. The returned color name will be typically used in articles about lines and services, where a trunk line color is mentioned. The second parameter recognizes the same ways of defining a color as the {{NYCS color}} template does.

• {{NYCS const|color|orange}} returns orange
• {{NYCS const|color|yellow}} returns yellow

2. If the first parameter is number, the template returns the number of stations. Meanwhile, there are only two options. The numbers of lines and services can be added.

• {{NYCS const|number|total}} returns 472
• {{NYCS const|number|intl}} returns 423

3. I can move to the template other pieces of text that are used more than once, such as the trunk line table or the sentence Lines with colors next to them are trunk lines; trunk lines determine the color of New York City Subway service bullets, except shuttles which are dark gray (I didn't take it because its occurrences slightly differ from each other).

I am going to apply this template. Is it OK? Vcohen (talk) 15:19, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

P.S. In line infoboxes, where the statement sounds like The services have been colored xxx since 1979, I leave the original color name, without the template. I suppose that only the general color has existed since 1979, such as blue or red, while the exact hue, such as vivid blue or tomato red, has been added later. Vcohen (talk) 13:24, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

 Done (in the first approximation). Vcohen (talk) 14:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)