User talk:Dank

Please leave a message, and I'll reply here. No copyediting requests for now, please.

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My talk page is watched by friendly talk page stalkers. Their input is welcome and their help with messages that I cannot reply to quickly is appreciated.

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BARC RfC

Regarding your request: I thought I would reply in what is hopefully a quieter place. Yes, I think many people looking for a new process to remove administrative privileges from an editor are viewing this as something that enables changes to the Request for Adminship process. Personally, I don't think that this necessarily disqualifies someone who has been involved in past discussions regarding RfA from evaluating consensus in this one. Community members who have shown interest in understanding, interpreting, and developing policies and procedures bring a degree of engagement to the closure process that can be effective. For better or worse, though, there are some editors who value a lack of any linkage to the area of discussion as being a stronger consideration over other qualifications.

On a digression: the demands on volunteers evaluating consensus seem to have crept up steadily. Calls for open deliberation just result in the community continuing the conversation after it has supposedly closed, and a lot of back-seat driving taking place. Coupling this with a desire for fixed deadlines, I feel it will be increasingly difficult to find anyone to close contentious discussions. Evaluators need space to bounce ideas off each other without having to continually respond to a dozen people questioning each nuance. There can be checkpoints where feedback is solicited, but if the group is required to justify each sentence it utters, the process bogs down. If the community wants to have persons with tested track records in interpreting discussions in an even-handed manner, perhaps it should be open to using professional mediators, who are evaluated on this basis and can only continue to be employed if they indeed demonstrate this ability. isaacl (talk) 01:47, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate the thoughtful reply. It won't be a problem at all for me if people don't want me to close this one, I've got a lot on my plate. - Dank (push to talk) 02:13, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

I had drafted a paragraph similar to what Risker had said regarding letting others step up to close RfCs, but after thinking further about the difficulty in getting closers, and the unfortunate (but understandable) tendency of some volunteers perhaps overestimating their ability to evaluate contentious discussion, I deleted it. But I will echo that I think for the community's sake, it would be good if some others would gain experience in this aspect, both to reduce reliance on a single person, and to increase diversity in how these discussions are evaluated. Unfortunately, at this point in time it's not a very attractive role for anyone to fill, as I described above. isaacl (talk) 14:49, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Agreed with all of that. Replied below. - Dank (push to talk) 16:27, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Badge icon for work other than articles

Hey Dank. Our discussion on the talk page of the BARC proposal, combined with the Liz RfA, and then combined with seeing a user's page today with badge icons that I've seen before on other user pages got me thinking. Well, my first thought is that as a copy editor I'm sure you want to rip my fingers off for that run-on sentence :) I digress...

The user page I saw was this one. Nothing extraordinary, but like many user pages it has badge icons for work done on the project. In this case, for DYK noms and GA status stuff. Liz has done a lot of non-article work, and she's been criticized for a lack of content creation. I noted in my comments on her RfA that a considerable amount of work occurs outside of article creation that is pivotal to the functioning of this project. Seeing your comments about being a closer on the BARC proposal, I sensed you felt you were criticized, put down, what have you; a negative feeling.

Those three disparate facts came together in my brain today and it dawned on me that we do no have badge icons (that I'm aware of) for work outside of mainspace. Well, we do have them for various user rights. But, we don't have them for work. For people that like badge icons, that seems wrong to me. We should give credit where credit is due. To that end, I created File:Symbol rfc.gif, which can be used as a badge icon to highlight closure of RfCs. (note: it's in gif format rather than svg; I didn't bother putting it into Illustrator to get an svg out of it)

You deserve credit for the contentious RfCs you have closed over the years. That sort of thing is lost in history for everyone. Nobody really knows, unless they happen to be well aware of your excellent work in this arena. So, there you go. Enjoy! --Hammersoft (talk) 14:12, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

I admit that I'm not feeling great, but that's coming from a bunch of unrelated things. This was really kind; thanks. Is it okay with you if I put the symbol and text on my Shinies page, as if it were a barnstar? - Dank (push to talk) 14:31, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

		The Contentious RfC Closer Award
		To you Dank, I award the The Contentious RfC Closer Award for your incredible work over the years in closing contentious RfCs where angels fear to tread. Yea, though you walk through the shadow valley of RfC, you have feared no evil: for thou art brave and capable. --Hammersoft (talk) 14:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

There. How's that? :) --Hammersoft (talk) 14:53, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and I saw what you did here :) --Hammersoft (talk) 14:55, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Isaac and Hammer, I don't think I'm feeling criticized (I can't be sure, I'm a geek) so much as sad that my days as a closer are probably over. I'm not sure that I have it in me, emotionally or mentally, to keep at it, and maybe someone else will be more successful than I've been ... I hope so. Besides, I need to make more brain space available for my language work, and focus more on my own problems and less on Wikipedia's. - Dank (push to talk) 16:26, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

I haven't changed my mind about big, messy RfCs after a day of thinking about it; I think I'm done. I may do smaller RfCs. - Dank (push to talk) 19:33, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm not closing messy RfCs any more, but as promised, now that the RfC is over, I want to mention why I thought I was in a position to be a neutral closer on this one: it's because I haven't been involved with this question before, and I don't think my work with RfA was relevant to the question, because I don't think that the existence or non-existence of BARC, by itself, would have a noticeable impact on RFA votes. A substantial majority of rationales expressed in opposition at RfAs don't seem like the kind of opinions that would be swayed by slightly increasing the probability of a desysopping down the road. I don't think I had a bias problem on this one. - Dank (push to talk) 17:47, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

A bit surprised

I was a bit surprised to see your comment here, and I'm finding it a bit confusing that you felt you were well placed to close the discussion but not in a position to participate in it. Nonetheless, I respect your decision not to express your opinions. Risker (talk) 17:08, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

This isn't a good day for me to respond, I may have something tomorrow. - Dank (push to talk) 19:43, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

I've still got nothing, other than what I already said above. - Dank (push to talk) 23:29, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Assisting with TFA

Hi Dank, hope you are well. I'd be happy to volunteer to help you prepare TFAs for the main page. (I saw your notice last month and have been meaning to get back to you ever since; your second notice today reminded me.) I still have WP:TFA/R on my watchlist from my own TFAs but I really should return to once again help support the nominated candidates. Other than that, how best can I help you? Best, Prhartcom (talk) 18:43, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Sure! You can do up to two per month. Best is to watchlist all the individual blank TFA pages, starting with Wikipedia:Today's featured article/August 29, 2015, and as soon as Chris (for August) or Brian (for September) schedules a TFA that you would like to work on, you should jump on it before I get to it. It's fine to pick something that's been through TFAR, if you see things you'd like to copyedit. The easiest way to learn the job is to compare articles leads with the TFA text for past TFAs ... or, just ask. - Dank (push to talk) 19:27, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

Sorry that I haven't started yet, Dank. I am doing some real life and also working on an FAC (which you are welcome to comment on). To be continued. Prhartcom (talk) 16:41, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. - Dank (push to talk) 16:44, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Dan: in case you haven't noticed, the TFA for 31 August has changed to Carrow Road (see my talk for discussion). A blurb is needed. Brianboulton (talk) 16:35, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Brian. I invited Dweller and TRM to make some edits. TRM did, and I followed with this edit. - Dank (push to talk) 16:37, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Are there any other changes you'd like? - Dank (push to talk) 16:48, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

TFA blurb for 12 September

Hello, Dank! I've condensed the text and posted beneath the original here. I hope this is what you had in mind. Kind regards, Tim riley talk 18:32, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Looks great, thanks Tim. - Dank (push to talk) 19:46, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Request

Hi Dan, pinging you beaceuse Brian is off for a day or two; but have a rather troublesom reqest - want to cancel the scheduling of Madonna in the Church on September 8, in favour of suggesting Witches' Sabbath (The Great He-Goat) for October 31st - Halloween. I realise that I'm going back on my word and didnt speak up soon after Brians's - very fair- comment at the nom about the vol of articles going through at the moment. Pinging van Eyck co-noms Victoriaearle & Johnbod with aoplogies, and User:Iridescent because she is VA, wise, tall and guidant. Victoria, I apologies to you espically :( Ceoil (talk)