Talk:Russo-Georgian War

The content seems not objective.

As I have witnessed the unfold of the war in a live feed by BBC journalist in South Ossetia at the time when the rockets rained down the city before the Russian Army responded next day.

Current TEXT: Russia falsely accused Georgia of "aggression against South Ossetia",[30] and officially launched a large-scale land, air and sea invasion of Georgia on 8 August under the guise of "peace enforcement" operation. My version: Russia accused Georgia of "aggression against South Ossetia",[30] and officially launched a large-scale land, air and sea invasion of Georgia on 8 August under the guise of "peace enforcement" operation.

The use of the word "falsely" already made judgement for readers who are unaware of the before and afters of the war. I cannot say for sure ALL events but at least I have seen the live footage from a BBC journalist who happened to be in the capital of South Ossetia at the time when the Georgian rockets rained down the city before Russian troops were stomping in next day. Therefore, using the word of "falsely" is not only controversial but also taking the situation out of context unless the author can prove the time, date and place of occurrence. Leave that word out and let the reader make their judgement. For example, after I read to that phrase "falsely accused", I have no more interest to read the rest of the article as I felt it will be biased and the so called "facts or incidents" in the subsequent paragraphs may be falsifiedWorld Citizen in New York (talk) 14:37, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. And in the article Responsibility for the Russo-Georgian War is said that EU Independent Fact Finding Mission Report "open hostilities started "... with a large-scale Georgian military operation against the town of Tskhinvali and the surrounding areas, launched in the night of 7 to 8 August 2008"". Cathry (talk) 16:42, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Indeed, there are massive problems here. The latest edit that included the "falsely" ([1], subsequently edit-warred back in [2][3][4]) is just the icing on the cake. Even without that overtly POV addition, the wording of the intro is seriously skewed. Just compare the wording regarding the activities of the two main parties in the lead: the Georgian army "was sent" (passive voice, de-emphasizing agentivity and responsibility) "to defend civilians and restore order" (claiming legitimate goal as an unquestionable fact); Tskhinvali "was captured" (again passive voice). In contrast, Russia "launched an invasion" (active voice, emphasizing aggressive intent) "under the guise of 'peace enforcement' operation" (presenting motivation as false, using scare quotes); Russian forces "battled" Georgian ones (again, emphasizing aggressive agentivity and responsibility of Russian side). All these are covert POV messages through the choice of language alone; not even looking into the choice and weighting of facts and sources. I'm quite disappointed this was passed as GA when all this POV verbiage was already there. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:42, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Will there be any consequences for those who created this "massive problems" with POV? What about those responsible for passing this article as GA, contrary to valid objections of other editors or reviewers (including myself)?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 13:09, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Dear Admin, the source was reliable and it was POV-editors who were removing reliably sourced content because they didn't like the content. I've now reverted my edit. I'm sorry if I've caused a mess. However, I want to point out that two users who have reverted me, 92slim and Tiptoethrutheminefield, both edit in Armenia-related topics and the Satala page, which suggests the possibility of tag-teaming. Yet, it was me who was given a discretionary sanction warning.

Also I want to point out that it was RGloucester who objected to Antidiskriminator's original GA review and other editor also found it strange.

I don't understand what your problem with "The Georgian Army was sent to the conflict zone on 7 August to defend civilians and restore order" is. Multiple reliable sources say that the Georgian Army was indeed was sent on 7 August. For example, the WSJ writes: "Six days later, fighting flared to a level not seen for years between the ethnically Georgian and ethnically Ossetian villages that form the patchwork of the separatist region. It was then that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili sent thousands of U.S.-trained troops into the province". --UA Victory (talk) 20:58, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

World Citizen in New York, Cathry, Future Perfect at Sunrise, Antidiskriminator. I am sorry that I opened a new section before reading this one. The concerns expressed are the same and the two sections should perhaps be fused. This article is a disgrace. Right now, I am too busy working on a professional project to rewrite it, but I hope someone else will take up the task very soon. Mitochondrial Eve (talk) 21:11, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Misleading lede

The lede states that "Ossetian separatists began shelling Georgian villages on 1 August, with a sporadic response from Georgian peacekeepers in the region. The Georgian Army was sent to the conflict zone on 7 August to defend civilians and restore order. Most of Tskhinvali, capital of the self-proclaimed Republic of South Ossetia, was recaptured in hours. Georgia later said it was also responding to Russia moving non-peacekeeping units into the country."

This is in clear contradiction with the findings of the Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Conflict in Georgia. Here is an excerpt (p 19, 14.)

"Open hostilities began with a large-scale Georgian military operation against the town of Tskhinvali and the surrounding areas, launched in the night of 7 to 8 August 2008. Operations started with a massive Georgian artillery attack. At the very outset of the operation the Commander of the Georgian contingent to the Joint Peacekeeping Forces (JPKF), Brigadier General Mamuka Kurashvili, stated that the operation was aimed at restoring the constitutional order in the territory of South Ossetia."

See also . The report dates from 2009 so that, imho, a complete overhaul of the article is long overdue.

The article states that the Georgian troops began military operation in South Ossetia on 7 August. However, this should not be confused with launching the war with Russia. The report of the Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Conflict in Georgia also stated that there is "no way to assign overall responsibility for the conflict to one side alone."

A research from 2009 can not be a substantial reason for a complete overhaul, because some new researches have been published since 2009. A book published in 2010 by the Palgrave Macmillan explains that Ossetian shelling was one of the major factors that contributed to Saakashvili's decision to launch a military operation. A 2012 study uses the findings of the Russian researchers to question the findings of the EU-funded report. This study published in 2014 by Rowman & Littlefield found out that Russian General Baluyevsky had admitted to the war with Georgia being planned in advance before August 2008. The European Council on Foreign Relations found out in 2015 that "Russian deployment to South Ossetia" began on 7 August 2008 and "Lines of Russian disinformation even penetrated the EU's own final report." A brief overview of Russia's recent military history states, "Then-Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili launched a large-scale operation on August 8, 2008, against South Ossetian forces who were shelling ethnic Georgian villages in the region."--UA Victory (talk) 19:24, 26 December 2015 (UTC)