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==Civil Rights/Liberties Org Categorization==
==Civil Rights/Liberties Org Categorization==
{{archivetop|Involved close, as last !vote was over 1 month ago. The supports have it by virtual [[WP:SNOW]]}}
'''Should the NRA article be placed into the Civil rights/liberties categories''' [[User:Gaijin42|Gaijin42]] ([[User talk:Gaijin42|talk]]) 15:15, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
'''Should the NRA article be placed into the Civil rights/liberties categories''' [[User:Gaijin42|Gaijin42]] ([[User talk:Gaijin42|talk]]) 15:15, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
===Survey===
===Survey===
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:::::::::::::Since none of you could be bothered, I added it. [[User:Felsic2|Felsic2]] ([[User talk:Felsic2|talk]]) 19:02, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Since none of you could be bothered, I added it. [[User:Felsic2|Felsic2]] ([[User talk:Felsic2|talk]]) 19:02, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
:*Be bothered? I asked you a flipping question and you refuse to answer it. You're becoming a parody of yourself. [[User:Niteshift36|Niteshift36]] ([[User talk:Niteshift36|talk]]) 19:05, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
:*Be bothered? I asked you a flipping question and you refuse to answer it. You're becoming a parody of yourself. [[User:Niteshift36|Niteshift36]] ([[User talk:Niteshift36|talk]]) 19:05, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
{{archivebottom}}

Revision as of 13:20, 21 May 2016

Endorsements

Hi Folks, the Endorsements subsection includes the following...

"In 2011, the organization declined an offer to discuss gun control with U.S. President Barack Obama. However, at the same time, LaPierre said that "the NRA has supported proposals to prevent gun sales to the mentally ill, strengthen a national system of background checks and spur states to provide needed data."[1]"

I removed it once after trying to find a better place for it, but it seems like a POV "I told you so" kind of comment to me. Someone has returned it. What relevance does this have in this section?

References

  1. ^ CALMES, JACKIE (JACKIE). "N.R.A. Declines to Meet With Obama on Gun Policy". New York Times. Retrieved 15 March 2011. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

Friends of NRA

Friends of NRA is an article about a group which raises money for the NRA Foundation. The NRA Foundation does not have an article. If the Foundation and its friends are notable then we oughta have a separate article about them. If the Foundation isn't notable them I don't know why the Friends are notable. The article is very lacking in secondary sources. I see three option: create an article about the Foundation and merge the content there; merge the content here; or delete it. Does anyone here have a preference? Felsic2 (talk) 16:21, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If sourcing is truly not available, I would think a foundation article, and then merge to the foundation article. Gaijin42 (talk) 16:35, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Are there sources for the foundation? Felsic2 (talk) 16:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, there are no secondary sources for the Friends article. The fourth option is just to make it a redirect to this page and not merge any of the promotional material. Felsic2 (talk) 17:05, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly enough to pass GNG, but it might start out fairly stubby. A few I found offhand

id=zyNWBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA218&dq=nra+foundation&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXupOkkcPLAhULx4MKHaIRA-cQ6AEISTAH#v=onepage&q=nra%20foundation&f=false

Gaijin42 (talk) 17:52, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Do your best. Next time I see the article I'll just mark it for deletion if it hasn't been improved. Felsic2 (talk) 18:14, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, I looked at the listed books and they only seem to have passing references to the Foundation. Those would not be sufficient to establish notability. Felsic2 (talk) 18:16, 15 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I filed a deletion request, or whatever you call it. Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2016_March_22#Friends_of_NRA. Felsic2 (talk) 18:23, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Civil Rights/Liberties Org Categorization

Involved close, as last !vote was over 1 month ago. The supports have it by virtual WP:SNOW

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should the NRA article be placed into the Civil rights/liberties categories Gaijin42 (talk) 15:15, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

  • support Although it is not universally described as such, there are multiple reliable sources that call the NRA a civil rights/liberties org in their own voice. This includes notable opinions, academic works, and reference works. Gaijin42 (talk) 15:15, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support listing it as a civil right organization. I guess the [1] NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund doesn't hurt the position. And did the old discussion really reach a consensus?Niteshift36 (talk) 00:54, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support listing NRA as a civil rights organization. As an inclusionist, I see no inconsistency in categorizing NRA recognition of the fundamental right of the weak to feel secure against predatory rapists and robbers. While some may theorize other means of attaining such security, widespread police use of firearms validates the old equalizer rhyme: Be not afraid of any man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me; and I will equalize. Thewellman (talk) 16:38, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I see how RfCs go on gun topics, so I don't really recognize the legitimacy of this little poll. This is a contentious category. I offer a compromise. Put the categories of Gun control advocacy groups‎, Gun control advocates, Gun rights advocacy groups, Gun rights advocates‎ in the Civil liberties category. That'll bring in all sides of the debate. Just like [Category:Reproductive rights]] Felsic2 (talk) 01:00, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Question - exactly which category is being proposed? Felsic2 (talk) 22:52, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You just have to have a comback for everything I right, eh? OK, so then you tell me what "the Civil rights/liberties categories" are that we're voting on in this lopsided poll. Felsic2 (talk) 16:01, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support summoned by bot; initial thought was 'no' but based on preponderance of sources I say 'yes' LavaBaron (talk) 12:32, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I'm thinking it's kind of spin, but since it's out there in use or question the just follow the cites then yes label it as such. As a personal opinion, it doesn't really fit my mental model but does seem consistent to the Civil rights article start "Civil and political rights are a class of rights that protect individuals' freedom". Markbassett (talk) 18:57, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I agree with Felsic2, calling the NRA a civil rights group is very debatable to some. We should always acknowledge that there are opposing viewpoints to keep neutrality. For that reason, just put them in the category of Gun rights advocacy groups, that's a fair compromise. --Bobtinin (talk) 19:22, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The NRA has partnered with the ACLU on other issues, such as law enforcement reform and opposing the NSA surveillance. That tends to support the notion that the are active in supporting other civil rights as well. Niteshift36 (talk) 23:13, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • While it may be debatable to some, that doesn't take away the fact that the NRA is a civil liberties organization, similar to how the ACLU is a civil liberties organization, even though the government and police may not always agree with it. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:55, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Threaded discussion

The most relevant sources to back the cat :

  • Encyclopedia of Contemporary American Social Issues [2] "The NRA [...] is the oldest continously operating civil liberties organization in the United States
  • NYT David Kopel [3] "Today, with 4 million members, the N.R.A. is one of the largest civic organizations in the U.S., and by far the largest civil liberties organization on the planet"
  • NYT David D. Cole [4] The organization is, after all, the most effective civil rights group in the United States today.
  • The Urban Institute The Scope and Dimensions of U. S. Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Organizations at the Beginning of the 21st Century [5] It is difficult to imagine a vibrant, inclusive civil society in America without civil liberties organizations, such as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and National Rifle Association (NRA) or without organizations advocating on behalf of underrepresented minority Interests. "
  • Encyclopedia of Politics: The Left and the Right [6] "The [NRA ...] is the oldest civil rights organization in the United states from the perspective of the right wing in america"
  • Encyclopedia of American Civil Rights and Liberties (no text, but listed in a civil rights encyclopedia) [7]Gaijin42 (talk) 15:52, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What does Giffords say? Felsic2 (talk) 00:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What does Giffords say about the NRA as a civil right organization? Niteshift36 (talk) 01:01, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As Gaijin42 - he's the one who says she's a reliable source for this issue. Until her view is included, it'll be one-sided. Felsic2 (talk) 20:32, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
https://books.google.com/books?id=4A7UAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA149&dq=nra+%22civil+rights%22+organization&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLgOH49dTLAhWGxIMKHcc8COQQ6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=%22civil%20rights%22&f=false Felsic2 (talk) 21:58, 26 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ask Gaijin42 - he's the one who offered Gifford as a source. He's the one who has repatedly refused to say why he included her. Felsic2 (talk) 16:02, 29 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since none of you could be bothered, I added it. Felsic2 (talk) 19:02, 31 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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