Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Atheism

Atheism articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 2 2 4 8 FL 1 1 GA 3 10 8 21 B 8 24 37 53 7 129 C 2 29 40 90 31 192 Start 1 13 44 159 61 278 Stub 8 74 18 100 List 17 1 10 2 30 Category 2 265 267 Disambig 2 2 File 7 7 Project 6 6 Redirect 7 11 21 39 Template 2 27 29 Other 1 5 6 Assessed 11 88 154 410 333 119 1,115 Total 11 88 154 410 333 119 1,115 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 3,187 Ω = 4.38

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Thanks. — Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 08:49, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Request for input in discussion forum

Given the closely linked subjects of the various religion, mythology, and philosophy groups, it seems to me that we might benefit from having some sort of regular topical discussion forum to discuss the relevant content. I have put together the beginnings of an outline for such discussion at Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/2011 meeting, and would very much appreciate the input of any interested editors. I am thinking that it might run over two months, the first of which would be to bring forward and discuss the current state of the content, and the second for perhaps some more focused discussion on what, if any, specific efforts might be taken in the near future. Any and all input is more than welcome. John Carter (talk)

_{Automated message by Project Messenger Bot from John Carter at 15:44, 5 April 2011}

Persecution by atheists category still populated

There was a CfD for Category:Persecution by atheists which was closed with the following rationale:

No consensus - with caveats. I came very close to closing this as Delete. I cannot see that any of the Keep votes have given any compelling reasons why the category should stay "as-is". Indeed, the majority of the Keep votes were very poor indeed in regards to policy. There is something of a consensus for keeping a similar category, but not named as such. The suggestion of Category:Religious persecution by secular governments given below is, I suggest, a good one. I suggest all editors who have commented here work towards moving this category to something approaching that one, because as given, the current title is frankly original research. Black Kite (talk) 23:57, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Despite this close, in which it is made clear the "as-is" category is inappropriate, a couple people on the "keep" side of the discussion persisted in edit warring to restore the categories.

A subsequent thread at WikiProject Religion has yielded no action, so I'm posting it here (this is the only wikiproject attached to the category, after all). IMO renaming may require an RfC, but the category should certainly be depopulated in the meantime, and restored where appropriate upon finding consensus for a suitable title. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 13:52, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

I think that your suggestion at the religion project, to rename the category as Category:Religious persecution by atheist states, is a good idea. And renaming the category will probably be less work than going from page to page to depopulate it, only to potentially repopulate a renamed category subsequently. I'd suggest that you start a Cfr at WP:CFD instead. If you do, please leave a note about it here. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:55, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Category:Religious persecution by atheist states has all of the same problems that the rejected Category:Persecution by atheists has, and I would be shocked if Rhododendrites suggested such a problematic category name. Fortunately, I see that he did not suggest it. If we are going to categorize articles involving religious persecution "by XXX", then XXX needs to be the source of that persecution. "Atheist" and "atheist state" are not sources of religious persecution (remember that reliable sources say "atheist state" was the desired eventual goal, not the cause). The totalitarian regimes were the source of the persecution of religious institutions, and the reason was usually because the Churches were competing and resisting influences over society - and in the case of the Roman Catholics specifically, the state considered them foreign enemies directed by the Vatican.

We already have Category:Religious persecution as a less-precise, but completely policy-compliant (it is non-controversial and has a main article) temporary category for the articles which have sourced descriptions of religious persecution in them. More specific religious persecution "by XXX" or "under XXX" sub-categories can be made as needed. One suggestion was "Religious persecution under revolutionary France", (and revolutionary Mexico; revolutionary Soviet Union; etc.). Xenophrenic (talk) 10:14, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

@Tryptofish: As Xenophrenic mentions, that suggestion was not mine and I would be inclined to oppose such a change as it runs into most of the same problems. I don't agree that renaming will be less work than depopulating it and later repopulating it. For the current category to be in use despite the CfD close is problematic. If there is consensus to restore the same pages to a similarly named category that does not run into the same problems addressed in the CfD, they can be restored. Given the CfD clearly stating the category is problematic "as-is" and amounts of original research, it doesn't seem like a new discussion finding consensus to depopulate is necessary. I'm bringing it up here because I'd rather not edit war. As, presumably, the objection to depopulating comes from an alternative interpretation of Black Kite's close, it may help for him/her to weigh in here. The onus to find consensus for a new name should lie with those that would like to create/retain such a category, not with those who see clear problems with the category to begin with. In short, if it's a problematic category, depopulating it shouldn't be dependent on coming up with something new -- the possibility of doing so is there, but as long as the current category exists, those who advocated to keep it have no motivation to decide on a replacement. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 13:50, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm very sorry that I was careless about reading who had proposed it, sorry. As for what to do, frankly the only thing I have a clear opinion about is that "Persecution by atheists" is a bad category name. Beyond that, whatever. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:32, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

It's no longer populated, and hasn't been for some time. I removed the category tag from several articles after noticing that WP:CATVER was violated. Some of those articles had zero mention of persecution, atheists, or anything related to them. Xenophrenic (talk) 22:42, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Nominated deletion of multiple Categories: "Persecution by..." Hindus, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists

Hi everyone, I think all of the categories with "persecution by..." should be eliminated. Including the one on atheism. This recommendation for elimination includes Category:Persecution by Hindus, Category:Persecution by Muslims, Category:Persecution by Buddhists, Category:Persecution by Christians. I think all of these categories were all made in bad taste as if to accuse and associate violence with people's worldviews. It tends to oversimplify worldviews and relates them to complex situations by placing blame. So these all look to me like POV pushing.

I have started a discussion for deleting all of these here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_July_4. In that same discussion page there is a nomination to delete Category:Persecution by atheists as well. Hope this helps. Huitzilopochtli1990 (talk) 11:26, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

The above notice was actually left by Huitzilopochtli1990 at WikiProject:Religion, which was appropriate since it concerns several religions. But since it also mentioned "atheism", I'm dropping a copy off here as well. Xenophrenic (talk) 21:29, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

London Black Atheists

I've written a new page London Black Atheists and I took the liberty of adding it to the project, if that's ok and someone feels like rating it on the talk page, that would be great, thanks. Mramoeba (talk) 21:22, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Charles Darwin part of the 'atheism' project?

Hello,

I noticed that the Charles Darwin article was listed here, but evidence shows that he wasn't an atheist [1], nor do any of his works represent atheism in any way. Some religious fundamentalists do try to make it seem 'atheism' (as they do everything that questions religion's claims and practices), but is 'concretising' such opinions (accusations, really) the goal of this project?

I realise that this is one of this project's few high-level WP:FA articles, but I think the above is worth consideration. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 08:26, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

A banner from WP:WikiProject Atheism is not to be construed as a statement that the subject of the page is or was an atheist. It just indicates that at least one member of the project believes the page is worth watching. The project may well include many people who are actually prominent critics of atheism, since what is said on their pages about atheism may need to be watched. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 08:31, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Ah, I wasn't aware that inclusion served that purpose, too. Thanks. THEPROMENADER ✎ ✓ 08:36, 4 September 2017 (UTC)