Talk:Lunar Gateway

Boeing's concept for Deep Space Gateway unveiled April, 2017

Boeing has their press release here: http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-04-03-Boeing-Unveils-Deep-Space-Concepts-for-Moon-and-Mars-Exploration#assets_117:20175

Hi-res render: http://www.numerama.com/content/uploads/2017/04/boeing-deep-space-gateway.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.140.213.126 (talk) 22:15, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

The article needs a photograph. Can an authorised person please upload the two pictures into Wiki-commons? Authorised by Boeing. Hollywood lawyers gave Wikipedia too many problems with copyright on photographs for anyone else to do it. Andrew Swallow (talk) 06:46, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Task complete. A picture has been added. Andrew Swallow (talk) 15:57, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

A more up-to-date image could be added: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dln8ytJVsAAY5og.jpg?name=orig found here: https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/1034135635827863552 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.169.89 (talk) 18:34, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Near Rectilinear Orbit Visuals

This paper visualizes the four types of cislunar Near Rectilinear Orbits https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20160003078.pdf The Deep Space Gateway would be placed in a South L2 NRO. Ryan Whitley and Roland Martinez's paper showing the advantages of NROs can be found here: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20150019648.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.140.213.126 (talk) 22:25, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 13 February 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 23:54, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

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Deep Space Gateway → Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway – Name used by the US Govt in the NASA FY 2019 budget proposal Hektor (talk) 12:15, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Per WP:COMMONNAME, it is referred to by the current name in sources. It's certainly a plausible redirect but it's too soon to talk about total name change._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 16:49, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose There are rival proposals for the Lunar Orbital Platform for instance the Bigelow depot. Andrew Swallow (talk) 17:54, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• See here Hektor (talk) 12:39, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

• Sorry wrong decision - see the speech (NASA foresees human lunar landings by the late 2020s) of Robert Lightfoot as reported by space news:

  The platform is the Lunar Orbiting Platform – Gateway, a human-tended facility in cislunar space formerly known as the Deep Space Gateway. That facility is one key element of the lunar exploration plans in the budget proposal, which calls for construction of an initial power and propulsion element that would be launched commercially in 2022.

The name change has been confirmed by the head of NASA himself. Hektor (talk) 19:23, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Hektor. This discussion was closed prematurely, and the official name did change. The move has to happen. Besides, 1) Bigelow's project is called 'Lunar Depot' so there is no need for disambiguation. 2) That Bigelow unit will/would be used for the new station. It is not a competing concept, it is a team effort (The lucky six are Bigelow Aerospace, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Orbital ATK, Sierra Nevada Corporation's Space Systems, and NanoRacks. Russia may join as well). Quote: "...are cooperating on the development of a habitat orbiting the Moon that they [Bigelow] hope to build in a public-private partnership with NASA."(http://spacenews.com/bigelow-and-ula-announce-plans-for-lunar-orbiting-facility/] - Oct. 17, 2017.) BatteryIncluded (talk) 15:54, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

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The criticism section seems as though it may need some balancing supportive quotes 82.22.197.128 (talk) 20:40, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Official name has changed again, Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway has been shortened to just 'Gateway'. WatcherZero (talk) 13:36, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

It is just the short name for LOPG. Rowan Forest (talk) 15:09, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Since they expanded it to international partners in Summer (bringing in ESA to build ESPIRIT when they realised the originally proposed PPE was too heavy for a single launch, asking the Russians to build an airlock for them, though there is a dispute because the US wants only US suits to be used while the Russians want the airlock to support Russian designed suits as well) they've dropped the LOP bit, neither ESA nor Russia are using it and NASA's Commercial tender in June didn't use it either. E.g. Esa: https://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/Exploration/Space_gateway Airbus: https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-releases/en/2018/09/Forward-to-the-Moon-Airbus-wins-ESA-studies-for-future-human-base-in-lunar-orbit.html NASA: https://mediadc.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/90e76ef/2147483647/strip/true/crop/2290x1202+0+60/resize/1200x630!/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmediadc.brightspotcdn.com%2Fca%2F5b%2F83ceda524a9fb7e2779922cc6015%2F7facts.jpg WatcherZero (talk) 20:33, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

A gateway is a passageway with a gate in it. NASA and ESA can get away with calling their spacestation a lunar gateway but not just a Gateway since it sounds silly in news reports. A unique name is needed. Andrew Swallow (talk) 03:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Station versus Spaceship

Some NASA publications refer to the Gateway as a spaceship: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/questions-nasas-new-spaceship The Gateway is designed to be able to change its orbit if needed. Would it be more accurate to refer to the Gateway as a spaceship? Pseismic (talk) 23:13, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

The International Space Station also has thrusters to adjust its orbit, yet, it is still called an orbital station. No difference with the Gateway. Also, note that it will be assembled in lunar orbit, and will not fly there as a spaceship would. I would leave it as it is. Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) 03:46, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

LOPG looks to be the most important next step tool in man's exploration of the solar system. My only reservation would be their current choice of orbit, if we are going to explore more remote planets & moons it is the latency of communication with rovers landed on the moon's surface that is surely more important than constant communication back to earth. LOPG and the moon could prove a great trials portal for rovers destined for use on other planets, possibly utilising nuclear power sources for areas where solar power is not available or sufficient for the mission.2A00:23C7:1A00:DB00:ADA9:8508:F6CE:9F9D (talk) 14:26, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

The Length of the Criticism Section is Ridiculous

I understand the utility of having a criticism section, but it seems like there's quotes from everyone and their mother posted there. It's almost half the length of the entire article! I propose that it should be cut down in length, just because as-is it's really overtaking the entire rest of the article.129.107.80.73 (talk) 01:58, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Suspect we will end up with 3 space stations

My suspicion is that NASA will end up building 3 space stations. This will be driven by cost and time.

1. The Lunar Orbital Platform (LOP) in lunar orbit which will house the reusable manned and heavy cargo landers. The landers will be refuelled there. 2. The Gateway space station in high Earth orbit (EML-2?) to which the Mars transfer vehicles will return. The modules supplied by other countries will end up here. 3. The LEO space ship yard. This will construct the Mars transfer vehicle and possibly the other space stations. The other space stations will be supplied via the ship yard because the CRS and Commercial Crew Program can reach this space station.

For space craft manufacturing a copy is considerably quicker and cheaper than designing a new module so all 3 could use the same design of PPE. IMHO The LOP and mini LEO ship yard could be in orbit by 2024.

Andrew Swallow (talk) 19:56, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello. I do not understand your comment —or was it a question to improve this article? The Lunar Orbital Platform – Gateway (formerly called Deep Space Gateway) is the only currently proposed space station by NASA, although NASA may give technical advice to private enterprises such as Bigellow Aerospace for a tourist hub in low Earth orbit. I never heard of the EML-2 nor "LEO space ship yard" concepts, and if they exist, they have certainly not been formally proposed. As for the ISS, NASA will be bailing out soon. Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) 20:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Sit back and watch this contingency happen. Andrew Swallow (talk) 21:57, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

@Andrew Swallow: Did it happen yet? I'm sorry I'm just really confused by this. NASA will 100% not build more than one new station. Everything you described directley contradicts NASA's current LEO, lunar, and Mars infrastructures. NASA's current Deep Space Transport is a single launch SEP spacecraft (very ambitious design but it seems they aren't in the business of large transfer vehicles and i doubt that will change). A high earth orbit space station has no potential use that the ISS or gateway can't support. The ISS (formerly Space Station Freedom) was proposed as a LEO shipyard until they realized how unnecessary it was to build a large transfer vehicle. I am interested where this speculation comes from. RundownPear (talk) 20:14, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Major update needed to this page needed: NASA's current plans are for the Phase One Gateway

Here is a quote from SpaceNews showing the direction NASA now has for a smaller, "Phase One Gateway":

The plan also makes use of a minimal version of a lunar Gateway. Gerstenmaier said NASA was moving ahead with the Power and Propulsion Element, evaluating proposals submitted by industry in November. A selection, he said, should come this summer, with the unit launched by the end of 2022.

The only other element of the Gateway planned prior to a 2024 lunar landing is “some kind of docking/habitation small module,” he said. “That is all that is needed to essentially support a lunar landing.”

https://spacenews.com/nasa-outlines-plan-for-2024-lunar-landing/

The contract for the PPE has been awarded to Maxar Technologies (formerly SSL): https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-awards-artemis-contract-for-lunar-gateway-power-propulsion

The contract for the docking/hab module has been awarded to NGIS: https://www.fbo.gov/index.php?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=36ebf3fc4d57c88b6bd8c94d1806dfb9

I disagree that "a major update is needed" for this article, and your references are months old. But the minimal architecture to serve Artemis 3 (Gateway phase 1) can be better highlighted, though. The award to build the PPE module is already documented; and NASA contracted studies for a small habitation module, no decision yet on its selection and it is not been built yet. Funding for the whole program is still in a very gray area. Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) 00:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Ok, the Minimal Habitation Module contract was awarded ("quietly") to Grumman 5 days ago without a competition. Someone added that info already. Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) 00:57, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

2 or 3 proposals evaluated by ESA

As of 24 July 2019, ESA members were still deliberating on their participation on the Gateway, and 2 modules are being proposed for construction:

• ESPRIT (European System Providing Refueling, Infrastructure and Telecommunications)
• A habitation module

Now, Airbus is proposing ESA to consider building a third vehicle: a reusable space tug named "Moon Cruiser" to support many activities around the Gateway. So it seems like ESA's interest is high and are developing concepts, but it has not yet approved a budget to actually build anything.

Source: Airbus propose un remorqueur translunaire. (in French). Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) 01:58, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Re: space tug, NASA is studying a submission by the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University for its own reusable space tug concept for supporting activities near the Gateway: "One of NASA's goals is to have a vehicle capable of regularly transporting payloads between the Gateway and other cislunar destinations." The tug project is called Project Luna. [1]; [2]. Rowan Forest (talk) 16:01, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

At the international partnership meeting in March ESA committed to Orion service modules, ESPRIT and to jointly develop a habitation module with JAXA though will have to wait for their budget meeting in November for formal approval. JAXA committed to a logistics module, part funding a habitation module and to provide HTV-X logistic resupply missions to Gateway with Falcon Heavy and Ariane 6 both in consideration for launching them. WatcherZero (talk) 20:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

While the ESA modules were just approved, the "Moon Cruiser" tug was excluded. So, I expect NASA to commission studies and fabrication for a tug. Rowan Forest (talk) 21:21, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Possible Move to Lunar Gateway

While LOP-G is still the "official" name, I'm seeing more and more references to it under the shortened "Lunar Gateway" name. In fact, "Lunar Gateway" seems to be the far more popular term. It may be worth considering a move. - Jadebenn (talk) 01:11, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

There is a redirect from Lunar gateway to Lunar Orbital Platform – Gateway so the change is not urgent. I suggest waiting until the name is changed officially. Andrew Swallow (talk) 01:21, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

The name is Gateway. See logo for instance. Hektor (talk) 21:07, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 26 September 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to "Lunar Gateway" (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:13, 5 October 2019 (UTC)

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Lunar Orbital Platform – Gateway → Gateway (space station) – The "Lunar Orbital Platform – Gateway" is no longer an official name, as NASA calls it simply Gateway:

Astronauts will dock Orion at the Gateway where they will live and work around the Moon. The crew will take expeditions from the Gateway to the surface of the Moon in a new human landing system before returning to the orbital outpost. [The] crew will ultimately return to Earth aboard Orion.[3]

Pinging @PhilipTerryGraham, OkayKenji, N2e, Mfb, and Jadebenn: for consensus. --Soumyabrata (talk • subpages) 12:33, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

• Opposed - The official name has definitely not changed. What you see in print is the short-form or short name. If a move was to be proposed for a shorter, common name, without resorting to disambiguation in parenthesis, it would be Lunar Gateway.

Rowan Forest (talk) 15:11, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

Gateway sounds like the side gate to Kennedy Space Centre. Where as Lunar Gateway sounds like something near the Moon. Andrew Swallow (talk) 22:07, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

• Support - This is indeed the official name. See NASA papers for their FY2020 budget proposal for instance here. Hektor (talk) 15:27, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

That is not a notice of a name change, but one of many instances of the casual use of the short-hand by the editor. From NASA itself: "lunar-orbiting platform commonly referred to as "the gateway." Also look at this, they use simply "Gateway" throughout the page, but look at the tag at the bottom: Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway. Both of you have a strong argument for a move based on a common name (Lunar Gateway [4]), but it is demonstrable not a "official name change" by NASA. Rowan Forest (talk) 15:36, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Ugh, tagging is not updated for technical reasons, and the word "Lunar Gateway" is less common than "Gateway" in the formal contexts. --Soumyabrata (talk • subpages) 16:41, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

I am certainly willing to support a move based on the most common name. The two evident choices are: "Lunar Gateway" and "Gateway (space station) ". "Lunar Gateway" is common, self-explanatory and unambiguous. "Gateway (space station)" necessitates of a disambiguation (Disambiguation in Wikipedia is the process of resolving conflicts that arise when a potential article title is ambiguous.) So the logical choice is a common name that is: self-explanatory, that is also conflict-free, and unambiguous: "Lunar Gateway". Cheers, Rowan Forest (talk) 16:57, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

• Lunar Gateway, see Rowan Forest. --mfb (talk) 20:47, 29 September 2019 (UTC)
• Support move to Lunar Gateway – Surmising an old name is still either an official or common name simply because it’s still used in blog tags is dubious logic. The sources provided by Hektor and Rowan clearly point to “Gateway” being at the very least the common name for the station. However, “Lunar Gateway” would be a natural disambiguation that would be preferable to the more clunky parentheses-based “Gateway (space station)” disambiguation. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 14:42, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

My logic is not based on a blog tag, but in the hard fact that NASA has not changed the name. The tag was presented as an additional support. Rowan Forest (talk) 22:53, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

@Rowan Forest: It was not so much "additional support", but literally the only source out of the three you provided which demonstrated the use of "Lunar Orbital Platform-Gateway" by NASA in recent times. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 04:29, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

@PhilipTerryGraham: You are always so [redacted, possible personal attack?], dramas and antagonization. Again: From NASA itself: "lunar-orbiting platform commonly referred to as "the gateway." [5]. As usual, you are too full of yourself and above NASA references. Rowan Forest (talk) 12:30, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support move to Lunar Gateway Just looking though some Space news related articles about this project, the common name as pointed out already is "Gateway" and also adding "lunar" might make it clearer. (the reason most articles just use "Gateway" is probably because the reader already knows the context).OkayKenji ^{(talk page)} 22:13, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
• Support Lunar Gateway as a reasonably common, concise, and precise name. Dicklyon (talk) 04:32, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 31 March 2020

Lunar Gateway → Gateway (space station) – Gateway (space station): Gateway is the real name of the space station that will be built by NASA around the Moon and for manned voyages to Mars. https://www.nasa.gov/topics/moon-to-mars/lunar-gateway CRS-20 (talk) 17:49, 31 March 2020 (UTC) Pinging @PhilipTerryGraham, OkayKenji, N2e, Mfb, Rowan Forest, and Jadebenn:. — CRS-20 (talk) 19:33, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

• See https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-awards-artemis-contract-for-gateway-logistics-services (Gateway Logistics Services) — CRS-20 (talk) 21:14, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

  @CRS-20: I corrected the formatting of the requested move, using the template Template:Requested move. OkayKenji ^{(talk page)} 21:59, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

  @OkayKenji: A huge thank you. Cordially. — CRS-20 (talk) 22:43, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose – The term "Lunar Gateway" seems to be more widely used still, even by NASA. See NASA's Lunar Gateway page. Dicklyon (talk) 23:25, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
• Support – It's "Gateway Logistics Services" and not "Lunar Gateway Logistics Services" — CRS-20 (talk) 23:47, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

@CRS-20: Seems a bit silly to be voting on your own proposal. Why not just update your original rationale instead? – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 04:55, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose - NASA uses both and "Gateway" is so ambiguous that it would need the disambiguation brackets. Better to use the name that doesn't need them, see the guidelines. --mfb (talk) 01:44, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Gateway (space station) is not ambiguous, see https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/fy_2021_budget_book_508.pdf (FY 2021 Budget) — CRS-20 (talk) 03:06, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose – Natural disambiguation should always be preferenced ahead of disambiguation via topics in parenthetical diusambiguation, to quote, "Natural disambiguation that is unambiguous, commonly used, and clear is generally preferable to parenthetical disambiguation [...] If no unambiguous, commonly used, and clear natural disambiguation is available, another type of disambiguation is used." Sources provided by Dicklyon in this discussion and sources presented in discussions previously have indicated that "Lunar Gateway" is a recognisable term used officially (false) — CRS-20 (talk) 05:21, 1 April 2020 (UTC) to refer to the station. It should be used in this circumstance regardless of whether or not "Gateway" or "Lunar Gateway" are the most commonly recognisable name. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 04:55, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

Even if NASA says "Gateway", and if I suggest "Gateway (space station), do you prefer "Lunar Gateway"? — CRS-20 (talk) 05:19, 1 April 2020 (UTC)