Talk:Afghanistan

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zach4596 (article contribs). This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bwiffen1234 (article contribs).

Government regime and flag

The regime MUST NOT be Islamic Emirates of Afghanistan but Islamic Republic of Afghanistan same as flag which are not acceptable for people of Afghanistan except a particular tribe called Pashtuns (Taliban are all terrorist and from the mentioned tribe). Zaki Frahmand 15 September 2021, 10:18 UTC

They might be terrorists and unacceptable for most Afghans, but unfortunately they rule Afghanistan and so that is the correct information in the article. Wikipedia is not censored and so the flag will not be removed either. Unless the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan take control again, the Taliban will rule. Your point came up in the RFC to recognise the Taliban, but WittyWidi pointed out that, as per WP:NEUTRAL, Wikipedia is written from a neutral point of view and therefore will not change the facts because a lot of people don't like them. --- Mullafacation {talk page|user page} 12:16, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

This national flag and anthem and the content mentioned here have no national or international legitimacy. We ask you to remove this content as soon as possible. Arial-noori-sajad (talk) 12:32, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

This national flag and anthem and the content mentioned here have no national or international legitimacy. We ask you to remove this content as soon as possible. Arial-noori-sajad (talk) 12:45, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

add the coat of arms

hello im Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan may i suggest that the coat of arms should be readded? because why not? i mean every country/insurgency haves an coat of arms? and if you have questions tell me Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan (talk) 22:56, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Because we don't have a source for either the Taliban, or an external reliable source, declaring it the Coat of Arms. The government has been in place literally a week. CMD (talk) 02:33, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Just add it won’t cause any problem I mean why not? The Taliban haves a coat of arms even there government has a coat of arms? Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan (talk) 03:25, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Because of WP:V. CMD (talk) 06:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

In the absence of proper evidence, this tiktok link here, from Fox News Journalist who is in Kabul, is a good circumstantial one: Tiktok As you see, that is Taliban coat of Arms (in Pashto), as well as the text that says "General Directorate of Intelligence" in Dari/Persian. BasilLeaf (talk) 05:27, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 September 2021

hello I’m Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan may request an edit in this article? Because I want the article to have an coat of arms and rename the flag caption from “flag of the Taliban” to “flag” so please reply to me if you accept or decline. Rakeem Abdiel Gunawan (talk) 03:23, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Closing this request, as this topic is already under discussion elsewhere on the talkpage. CMD (talk) 06:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Ethnic population

There has not been any official census concluding that 50 percent of Afghanistans population could be Pashtun. Remember less than 50 percent of the country speaks pashto and other countries like Tajikistan have tried to claim that Afghanistans population is 45 percent tajik, which is obviously not true. However, putting the Pashtun population as even possibly 50 percent is a far inaccuracy. PanjshirLions (talk) 03:29, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/afghanistan-population PanjshirLions (talk) 03:31, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

You are correct. I checked the citation that has been provided for ethnic breakdown of population. This link is the citation, a 2018 survey by "Asian Foundation": LINK The citation does not provide such information at all. It is an incorrect information. I will find the correct information and correct the article. Thanks for brining up the mistake. BasilLeaf (talk) 14:45, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

This is the most up to date data from 2019. Page 277, table D-14. Which ethnic group do you belong to?. LINK I will update the latest information on this basis, unless someone provides a more up to date information. The US Department of State numbers, which are cited frequently are from 2010, and are outdated. BasilLeaf (talk) 15:33, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Af420 seems to be putting this as a personal issue. It is simply not, it is just known that the ethnic groups of Afghanistan as listed and extremely inaccurate and it is our responsibility to ensure that Wikipedia has accurate material. PanjshirLions (talk) 19:19, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree. None of the "Asian Foundation" surveys show the breakdown that Af420 is putting in the infobox. There is no source to back that information up. BasilLeaf (talk) 19:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

I have just reviewed all of Af20's sources. They are either outdated our claim to be dated correctly but are the exact same as the 2010 census. I have also spotted some inaccuracies in Af20's sources. Yet he hasn't listened to the advice in regarding to accurate sources. PanjshirLions (talk) 01:32, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

You also should not use 2011 sources and label the info as 2020. This is mislabeling. PanjshirLions (talk) 01:37, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

2019* correction PanjshirLions (talk) 01:40, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Af420 provided new sources that seem good, they seem to be recent too. So I'd like to thank them for this. All of the sources state that Pashtun people make up 42% of the population. None say 50%. So "42-50% Pashtun" was incorrect, and in any case, would've added up to more than 100%. I corrected it to 42%.BasilLeaf (talk) 02:51, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Languages - Update

I know there was a bit of confusion about whether, now with the takover of the predominantly Pashtun speaking Taliban, if Dari/Persian will remain an official language. There still are no actual evidence or statements by the Taliban. But, it is safe to assume that there hasn't been any change in the status quo from the Islamic Republic bilingualism policy. This is a circumstantial evidence, filmed by Fox News Journalist in Kabul: Tiktok. As you see, the text "ریاست عمومی استخبارات" is in Dari/Persian (meaning "General Directorate of Intelligence"). So, the country, at least so far, remains an officially bilingual one. BasilLeaf (talk) 05:31, 16 September 2021 (UTC)

Emblem

The emblem isn’t in the info box anymore. Please re-add it into the page.--CapiFixer (talk) 21:30, 16 September 2021 (UTC) File:Taliban CoA.svg

Zablon Simintov

Simintov no longer resides in Afghanistan according to his own Wikipedia page. Please update this page. Jay Schro (talk) 02:32, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Sure, thanks for the reminder. BasilLeaf (talk) 04:35, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Why in this case, what's shown is the de-facto situation but now in cases like Crimea etc?

Why do you use the IEA flag and name etc when this isn't recognised internationally why for articles like Crimea or the President of Venezuela you write both the de-facto nad the de-jure situations? 93.15.241.95 (talk) 18:25, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 September 2021

Change the spacing error “anautocracy” under government_type to “an autocracy.” IsMyNameTooLong (talk) 03:37, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

 Already done I can't seem to find the error you are talking about. BSMRD (talk) 03:44, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Must have been a glitch. I noticed too it was gone before any edit was made. IsMyNameTooLong (talk) 03:14, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

New section 'Military'

Considering that the current Taliban government of Afghanistan have their own military, we might need to add a new section referring to that Taliban military. - Hu753 (talk) 04:44, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

flag change

I am sorely disappointed in Wikipedia's descion to accept to adopt the flag of the Taliban for this article, which has not been accepted by the majority of Afghan people as the official flag. Why is this site succumbing down to terrorists? The Taliban are not internationally recognized despite taking over the country therefore their flag should not be used as Afghanistan's official flag. Please change it or remove it. Akmal94 (talk) 08:36, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@Akmal94: Please see the Chinese Wikipedia version of the page "Afghanistan", where is no any national flag, coat of arms, anthem, motto, leader, legislature or government system in the infobox. The Chinese Wikipedia version of the page "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" is an independent page about the Taliban government periods during both 1996–2001 and from 2021, instead of redirecting to the Chinese Wikipedia version of the page "Afghanistan". The Chinese Wikipedia version of the page "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" is an independent page like its English Wikipedia version. In other words, now Chinese Wikipedia doesn't unilaterally recognize neither the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" nor the "Islamic Republic of Afghanistan" as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan, which obeys WP:NPOV. English Wikipedia also should do so.--Joker Twins (talk) 12:13, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the Islamic Emirate if Afghanistan became de jure on around September 16th. It is now recognized in some countries including the United States. It isn’t recognized in Canada and probably not in China. That would explain why it is two separate pages in the Chinese Wikipedia. CapiFixer (talk) 18:50, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

@CapiFixer: You said "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan became de jure on around September 16th. It is now recognized in any countries including the United States." But I have two questions for you. ① Now the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan still sits the seat of Afghanistan in the United Nations, so how to prove "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan became de jure" you said? ② Now Adela Raz still serves as the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan Ambassador to the United States and works in the Embassy of Afghanistan, Washington, D.C., so how to prove "the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is recognized by the United States" you said?--Joker Twins (talk) 02:58, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

It is now recognized in some countries including the United States

Can we have a citation for that? The article itself says IEA is not recognised by any country. Uvants (talk) 09:15, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

I think Mr. Fixer meant to say it is "not" recognized, not that it is "now" recognized.

While Wikipedia generally trails other sources, in this situation it is apparently thrust into the lead. No credible source disputes that the Taliban regime currently exerts temporal control over the territory of Afghanistan, so this article reflects that fact. The various diplomatic gymnastics regarding the exchanges of ambassadors, etc. are of some concern but cannot change that basic fact. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 03:21, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

@力: Now the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan controls nearly whole Afghanistan, however the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is recognized as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan by most of countries around the world, and still sits the seat of Afghanistan in the United Nations. Thus I have a question for you, why can English Wikipedia unilaterally recognize the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan, which is shown by the leads and infobox of the page Afghanistan and the redirect page Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan that redirects to the page Afghanistan, and disobeys WP:NPOV?--Joker Twins (talk) 03:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Because "legitimate government" isn't the relevant test. The Taliban regime is the government with temporal power. The various bureaucratic dances about "legitimacy" are a separate concern. ... if you want to re-litigate various long-standing issues about the conflation of articles about a "country region" and a "government" (which normally come up regarding the islands of Ireland and Taiwan), you should do so at a forum such as Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 15:58, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Use as a flag of Afghanistan however is an interesting test. The flag of Afghanistan, used to represent the country, was in the Paralympics the tricolour. If that trend continues, then the flag of Afghanistan will in many cases not be the flag used by the new government. CMD (talk) 16:15, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

@力: The legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan is so relevant to the page Afghanistan, because Afghanistan is a member state of the United Nations. When introduces a member state of the United Nations, English Wikipedia usually refers to its legitimate government and representative recognized by most of countries around the world. For example, the first sentence of the leads of the page Yemen says, "Yemen, officially the Republic of Yemen", and there are the official national name of Yemen: Republic of Yemen, and the national flag, coat of arms, anthem, motto, leaders, legislatures and government system of the Republic of Yemen in the infobox of the page Yemen, just because the Republic of Yemen is the legitimate government and representative of Yemen recognized by most of countries around the world and sits the seat of Yemen in the United Nations, although Houthis controls the northwestern part of Yemen, including Sanaa, the de jure capital of the Republic of Yemen.

In addition, although a new government controls most or nearly all territory of a country from its predecessor, the new government may not be recognized as the country's legitimate government and representative by most of countries around the world. For example, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan firstly controlled most of territory of Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001, but its predecessor, the Islamic State of Afghanistan was still recognized as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan by most of countries around the world, sat the seat of Afghanistan in the United Nations, and finally retook nearly whole Afghanistan after the United States invasion of Afghanistan in 2001. Another example, the People's Republic of Kampuchea (renamed to the State of Cambodia in 1989) controlled whole Cambodia from 1979 to 1993, but its predecessor, the Democratic Kampuchea still sat the seat of Cambodia in the United Nations until 1982. Then the Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea (renamed to the National Government of Cambodia in 1990, consisted of the political factions of the Democratic Kampuchea and royalists of the Kingdom of Cambodia) succeeded the Democratic Kampuchea and its seat in the United Nations in 1982, and recognized as the legitimate government and representative of Cambodia by most of countries around the world. Finally the Kingdom of Cambodia restored its rule to whole Cambodia and succeeded the seat of Cambodia in the United Nations in 1993, and recognized as the legitimate government and representative of Cambodia by most of countries around the world. The current political situation of Afghanistan is as same as these examples.

In conclusion, due to the current political situation of Afghanistan, English Wikipedia shouldn't unilaterally recognize neither the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan nor the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as the legitimate government and representative of Afghanistan to obey WP:NPOV. In other words, the first sentence of the leads of the page Afghanistan should say "Afghanistan is a landlocked country at the crossroads of Central and South Asia", without neither the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan nor the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as the official national name of Afghanistan. The infobox of the page Afghanistan shouldn't list neither the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan nor the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan as the official national name of Afghanistan, and shouldn't list any national flag, coat of arms, anthem, motto, leader, legislature or government system of Afghanistan. The page Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan should be independent by merging from the page Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001).--Joker Twins (talk) 09:40, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Note: Comments in this section have been edited by Joker Twins after they had already been replied to. CMD (talk) 08:36, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

However it is just little fix and still keeps original meaning. It is so confused for the necessity of this off-topic note.--Joker Twins (talk) 08:44, 24 September 2021 (UTC)

Removing dead link for “office of the president”

• 'Remove an external link linking to the Office of the President’:
• Link is dead, possibly has been ever since the fall of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan, and now gives an error when accessed. Even though there are archives, I don’t see what this has to do with the current regime anyway.:
• Not much to cite, just go to the link and see it’s down:

HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith (talk) 23:32, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done BSMRD (talk) 02:03, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

"Is a member of ..." in the lede

The lede presently says It is a member of the United Nations, the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation, the Group of 77, the Economic Cooperation Organization, and the Non-Aligned Movement. However membership is currently accredited to the exiled/rump IRA, not the IEA. I haven't seen any RS say that the IEA is currently representing Afghanistan in these bodies. I propose that the wording be changed to ..was a member of.. with an explanatory note. BrxBrx(talk)^{(please reply with {{SUBST:re|BrxBrx}})} 20:09, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

I get the logic here, but it also isn't not a member of these orgs now. We can't say was just as we can't say is. For example, "Afghanistan" still has a seat at the UN, one that is currently (to my knowledge) vacant. Unless someone can come up with a better idea (or RS explicitly stating Afghan membership of these orgs has been removed/withdrawn) I support the status quo. BSMRD (talk) 23:49, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Rewrite section on administrative divisons

Now that a new government has taken over, it is unclear whether the old administrative divisions still hold. At the very least, all references to the old constitution should be removed. If someone has information on the status of these divisions under Taliban rule, please add them. Benboy250 (talk) 03:45, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

From what we have seen, there hasn't been any change in structure, simply new Taliban appointments to replace the Islamic republic officials. That's the only news coming out with respect to this matter from Afghanistan. Unless there's an announcement from the Talibs with regards to administrative divisions, we will assume that there hasn't been any change. BasilLeaf (talk) 17:36, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Why aren't we keeping this page neutral?

I'm very wary of the fact that the page as it stands could be seen to be to be inadvertently making a political declaration as to which government "Wikipedia" is recognising as the legitimate official government of Afghanistan, and the fact that people will view this article in its current form while making their own assessments is troubling to me.

It seems to me that the obvious approach should be to have no governmental info (flag, president, or otherwise) in the infobox for the main Afghanistan page, and instead including links to the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and have the article for Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996–2001) be updated to become the current page for Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, instead of it simply redirecting to this page.

It is now becoming abundantly clear that members of the government of the Islamic Republic, as well as others, are intending to lead a government in exile. The current UN ambassador for the Islamic Republic is also continuing to assert his right to be the legitimate UN representative for Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic flag still flies at the UN today. This page needs bringing into line with reality. The fact the Taliban has de facto physical control of the territory does not mean they will automatically become the officially recognised government. It is under dispute and should be portrayed as such.

I would suggest people take a leaf out of the example of the neutral page for Crimea, and its separate pages for the de jure Autonomous Republic of Crimea as well as the de facto Republic of Crimea. It is an intelligent and simple solution which allows for information to be kept up to date on developments on both sides of the subject, as well as leaving the main page unmolested by changing affairs until this dispute can be considered resolved once and for all.

incorrect population

Due to the neutrality of Wikipedia You used fake demographics that suppress most millennials The correct population statistics are as follows: 30% Pashtun 25% Tajik 23% Hazara 9% Uzbek 4% Aimaq 3% Turkmen 2% Baloch 4% others

incorrect population

Due to the neutrality of Wikipedia You used fake demographics that suppress most Hazaras The correct population statistics are as follows: 30% Pashtun 25% Tajik 23% Hazara 9% Uzbek 4% Aimaq 3% Turkmen 2% Baloch 4% others 0980asm (talk) 10:40, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

This Flag dose not belong to Afghanistan !

This national flag and anthem and the content mentioned here have no national or international legitimacy. We ask you to remove this content as soon as possible. Arial-noori-sajad (talk) 12:45, 25 September 2021 (UTC)