Talk:Prince Edward, Duke of Edinburgh: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 20:09, 18 September 2022

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Prince Edward, Duke of Edinburgh article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Peerage and Baronetage / Royalty and Nobility B‑class

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Royalty and Nobility (assessed as Mid-importance).

British Royalty B‑class Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject British Royalty (a child project of the Royalty and Nobility Work Group), an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to British Royalty on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you should visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.British RoyaltyWikipedia:WikiProject British RoyaltyTemplate:WikiProject British RoyaltyBritish royalty articles
B	This article has been rated as B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

London Unassessed

	London portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 5 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Earl of Wessex and Forfar

Prince Edward is now listed as this, but does it not suggest that it is one title? The Earldom of Forfar was bestowed upon His Royal Highness in 2019, ostensibly to give him a Scottish title, and is in no way linked to the English one. 92.30.70.49 (talk) 14:46, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 September 2022

It has been proposed in this section that Prince Edward, Duke of Edinburgh be renamed and moved to Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex and Forfar.

A bot will list this discussion on requested moves' current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex → Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex and Forfar – I think in the UK he's known simply as "prince Edward", and if we're going to start saying his titles, naming the English earldom of Wessex and not the Scottish earldom of Forfar sounds a bit disrespectul to Scotland. Alternatively, something that doesn't mention any of the 2 earldoms would also be fine. And this may become a moot point in the future if he gets given the dukedom of Edinburgh (but, of course, that would be WP:CRYSTAL). Dr. Vogel (talk) 18:15, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support We don't know if he'll ever be created Duke of Edinburgh. That's WP:CRYSTAL. At the moment he's the Earl of Wessex and Forfar, per official palace statements.^[1] He has since been specifically referred to as the Earl of Wessex and Forfar when information was published on his father's funeral arrangements,^[2] and in statements made by charities of which he is either a patron or trustee, such as the Duke of Edinburgh's Awards and the Seafarer's Charity.^[3]^[4] So the title has been in use since 2019-2020 and this is a clear case of WP:NAMECHANGES. Also, per MOS:IDENTITY a person's choice of name must also be considered and he has chosen to be known as the Earl of Wessex and Forfar, rather than the Earl of Wessex (just as his nephew William was known as the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge for a day but that didn't prevent a page move). And regarding to the point that he's known simply as Prince Edward in the UK, no, he's not and that's because there's another Prince Edward, the Queen's cousin Prince Edward, Duke of Kent. Keivan.f^Talk 19:02, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Several court circulars, press releases, news reports, and members of the public have been using 'Earl of Wessex and Forfar' to refer to The Prince Edward since at least last year. Falls under WP:COMMONNAME.

References

^ "A statement from The Earl of Wessex and Forfar". The Royal Family. 16 September 2022. Retrieved 17 September 2022.
^ "The Funeral of The Duke of Edinburgh". royal.uk. 4 December 2017. Archived from the original on 2 February 2022. Retrieved 11 February 2022.
^ "HRH The Earl of Wessex and Forfar KG GCVO". The Duke of Edinburgh's International Award. Archived from the original on 11 February 2022. Retrieved 11 February 2022.
^ "To our Merchant Navy… THANK YOU". The Seafarers' Charity. Archived from the original on 11 February 2022. Retrieved 11 February 2022.

[1] "A statement from The Earl of Wessex and Forfar". The Royal Family. 16 September 2022. Retrieved 17 September 2022.

[2] "The Funeral of The Duke of Edinburgh". royal.uk. 4 December 2017. Archived from the original on 2 February 2022. Retrieved 11 February 2022.

[3] "HRH The Earl of Wessex and Forfar KG GCVO". The Duke of Edinburgh's International Award. Archived from the original on 11 February 2022. Retrieved 11 February 2022.

[4] "To our Merchant Navy… THANK YOU". The Seafarers' Charity. Archived from the original on 11 February 2022. Retrieved 11 February 2022.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 [[:Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex]] → {{no redirect|Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex and Forfar}} – I think in the UK he's known simply as "prince Edward", and if we're going to start saying his titles, naming the English earldom of Wessex and not the Scottish earldom of Forfar sounds a bit disrespectul to Scotland. Alternatively, something that doesn't mention any of the 2 earldoms would also be fine. And this may become a moot point in the future if he gets given the dukedom of Edinburgh (but, of course, that would be WP:CRYSTAL). [[User:DrVogel|Dr. Vogel]] ([[User talk:DrVogel|talk]]) 18:15, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 *'''Support''' We don't know if he'll ever be created [[Duke of Edinburgh]]. That's [[WP:CRYSTAL]]. At the moment he's the Earl of Wessex and Forfar, per official palace statements.<ref>{{cite web|url=https://www.royal.uk/statement-earl-wessex-and-forfar|title=A statement from The Earl of Wessex and Forfar|work=The Royal Family|date=16 September 2022|accessdate=17 September 2022}}</ref> He has since been specifically referred to as the Earl of Wessex and Forfar when information was published on his father's funeral arrangements,<ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.royal.uk/funeral-duke-edinburgh-0 |title=The Funeral of The Duke of Edinburgh |date=4 December 2017 |publisher=royal.uk |access-date=11 February 2022 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220202123217/https://www.royal.uk/funeral-duke-edinburgh-0 |archive-date=2 February 2022}}</ref> and in statements made by charities of which he is either a patron or trustee, such as the Duke of Edinburgh's Awards and the Seafarer's Charity.<ref>{{cite web |url=https://intaward.org/trustee/earl-of-wessex/ |title=HRH The Earl of Wessex and Forfar KG GCVO |publisher=The Duke of Edinburgh's International Award |access-date=11 February 2022 |url-status=live |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220211153014/https://intaward.org/trustee/earl-of-wessex/ |archive-date=11 February 2022}}</ref><ref>{{cite web |url=https://www.theseafarerscharity.org/merchant-navy-fund/news/to-our-merchant-navy |title=To our Merchant Navy… THANK YOU. |publisher=The Seafarers' Charity |access-date=11 February 2022 |url-status=live |archive-date=11 February 2022 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220211153913/https://www.theseafarerscharity.org/merchant-navy-fund/news/to-our-merchant-navy }}</ref> So the title has been in use since 2019-2020 and this is a clear case of [[WP:NAMECHANGES]]. Also, per [[MOS:IDENTITY]] a person's choice of name must also be considered and he has chosen to be known as the Earl of Wessex and Forfar, rather than the Earl of Wessex (just as his nephew William was known as the Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge for a day but that didn't prevent a page move). And regarding to the point that he's known simply as Prince Edward in the UK, no, he's not and that's because there's another Prince Edward, the Queen's cousin [[Prince Edward, Duke of Kent]]. <span style="font:'Pristina'">[[user:Keivan.f|<span style="color: #1E7HDC">Keivan.f</span>]]</span><span style="font:'Pristina'"><sup>[[user_talk:Keivan.f|<span style="color: purple">Talk</span>]]</sup></span> 19:02, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
+* '''Support''' Several court circulars, press releases, news reports, and members of the public have been using 'Earl of Wessex and Forfar' to refer to The Prince Edward since at least last year. Falls under [[WP:COMMONNAME]].
 {{reflist-talk}}