Talk:Mackenzie Ziegler

Incorrectly named

This article is incorrectly named. All WP:Reliable sources and nearly all "news" sources (and even the subject's own social media) refer to this subject as "Mackenzie". "Kenzie" is a nickname used only by her friends, and perhaps some fans. See: https://www.google.com/#q=%22mackenzie+ziegler%22&tbm=nws vs. https://www.google.com/#tbm=nws&q=%22Kenzie+ziegler%22 I have asked an admin to move the article to Mackenzie Ziegler, which is a page that was previously protected from creation. -- Ssilvers (talk) 08:36, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

@Ssilvers: What administrator did you ask? This article, which was created by socks, not to mention the original salted article that also involved sock puppetry, needs to be dealt with in some fashion before any move over the salted name takes place.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:59, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I've asked User:Newyorkbrad and one other admin, in case Brad cannot get to it soon. I think that Mackenzie Ziegler is probably now notable -- she has 5.8 million instagram followers, was a main character on a successful reality TV show for several years, and has attracted a considerable amount of press. More than 3,000 Google "News" sources refer to her: https://www.google.com/#q=%22mackenzie+ziegler%22&tbm=nws -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:56, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

WP:DISINFOBOX

The Manual of Style says: "Whether to include an infobox ... is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article." While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not. See arbitration report: "Infoboxes may be particularly unsuited to liberal arts fields when they repeat information already available in the lead section of the article, are misleading or oversimplify the topic for the reader". I disagree with including an infobox in this article because: (1) The box would emphasize unimportant factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance, in competition with the WP:LEAD section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. (2) Since the most important points in the article are already discussed in the Lead, or adequately discussed in the body of the article, the box would be redundant. (3) It would take up valuable space at the top of the article and hamper the layout and impact of the Lead. (4) Frequent errors creep into infoboxes, as updates are made to the articles but not reflected in the redundant info in the box, and they tend to draw more vandalism and fancruft than other parts of articles. (5) The infobox template creates a block of code at the top of the edit screen that discourages new editors from editing the article. (6) It would discourage readers from reading the text of the article. (7) IBs distract editors from focusing on the content of the article. Instead of improving the article, they spend time working on this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. See also WP:DISINFOBOX. -- Ssilvers (talk) 09:28, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree. There is little benefit to the box here. - SchroCat (talk) 16:07, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

I also oppose the infobox. I think that it merely repeats information that is stated better in the Lead section of the article. Somambulant1 (talk) 16:32, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree that the infobox is not needed here for reasons I have stated on previous discussions of a similar nature. Jack1956 (talk) 18:26, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Personally am strongly in favor of an infobox here, as with most all pages... it's largely a matter of personal preference, but many of the reasons given by the original post here are true for most all infoboxes... infoboxes are intended to contain facts already present in the article, most of which will always be present in the Lead. All infoboxes, especially those that are large, take up considerable space, and far more than would in this case. As far as the other points presented, all infoboxes present these issues (block of code at the top, "distracting" editors for the content, etc). As far as I am concerned, the issues presented here do not pertain directly to this article or its contents, but rather to personal opposition to infoboxes as a whole. It is my opinion that infoboxes in general provide a brief overview of important details for any article which provides them, which this one does. --Hunterm267^Talk 22:55, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

• I also Oppose an infobox in this article for the reasons given by Ssilver. UWS Guy (talk) 02:02, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2017

I request to edit this page to add her birthplace to the wikipedia page JuiceHive (talk) 19:12, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

This info is already in the article. MarsToutatis ^talk 19:18, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2017

MACKENZIE ZIEGLER IS KNOWN FOR BEING ON DANCE MOMS REALITY SHOW AND ALSO SHE HAS A LOT OF SONGS LIKE BREATHE AND TEAMWORK AND PERFECT HOLIDAYS AND GIRL PARTY MACKENZIE HAS ALSO GONE TO A LOT OF TOUYRS WITH JHONNY ORLANDO AND SHE HAS HER OWN CLOTHING LINE SO GO SHOP FOR IT SHE HAS ALSO ACTED IN A LOT MOVIES SHE HAS A SISTER WHO WAS THE FAVORITE ON DANCE MOMS AND HER NAME IS MADDIE ZIEGLER . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.247.75.132 (talk) 18:32, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

All of this is mentioned in the article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:24, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 January 2018

172.220.11.9 (talk) 22:19, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Sakura Cartelet^Talk 22:31, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 March 2018

Mackenzie Ziegler has changed her form of Dancing, and now she is focusing more on jazz pop. Her recent video was her creating a fan account to pretend to be a fan and talk to her real *fans*. She is widely known and shipped with current celebrity, Johnny Orlando. Fallenqkenz (talk) 13:37, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:07, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 July 2018

Infobox added against consensus (see "WP:DISINFOBOX" section above) by User:Jade.parker123. Infobox should be removed. 50.81.227.4 (talk) 19:07, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

 Not done for now: If there were a consensus achieved, those who achieved it have been less than diligent in enforcing it, as the infobox has existed in this article for at least 2 months and no one has said anything about it. You should make contact with the editors who were active in that discussion to see what can be done here.  spintendo  19:19, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminder. Done. -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:45, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2018

I want to edit the part about Mackenzie's music videos. She also performed in music video 'What If' recently with Johnny Orlando. I would like to add that. Amberly Emilie (talk) 07:06, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Danski454 (talk) 07:54, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Done. I added it to the table. Probably not necessary to mention it in the text. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:44, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2018

I want to add a picture and a box with general information Laurenrsimon89 (talk) 02:51, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Dolotta (talk) 03:23, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Note that there is NO consensus to add an infobox to this article, and I, for one, oppose it. See the discussion above and WP:DISINFOBOX. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:18, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Why is this page protected??

Why is this page protected from vandalism? I just wanted to add some stuff about her! Dance.moms.fanz (talk) 06:42, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

What would you like to add? Let us know, and we can help. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:33, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

This page has been protected because of an edit war if one of the sentences needs an Oxford comma.--100.1.76.9 (talk) 01:12, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2019

FatimaAnwaar (talk) 13:34, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Ziegler has collaborated with her friend and best friends (Lauren Orlando) brother Johnny Orlando on songs "Day and Night" and "What If" and they are shipped together as "Jenzie"

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 13:51, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 March 2021

Camerondamelio (talk) 03:26, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Fix her name

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 03:36, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

Article with no Infobox

Is it necessary to add an Infobox to this article? And if it is which one is appropriate here - musical artist or actor. PushaWasha (talk) 10:44, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Sorry I have seen a previous discussion on this matter. PushaWasha (talk) 10:45, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

As you saw in the previous discussion, no infobox is desired for this article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:19, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 September 2021

Can I change the article?? 2604:3D08:367D:5D00:F51F:C910:EAFF:A05D (talk) 01:53, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself.   melecie   t 02:01, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Sources re: songs/singing by Mackenzie Ziegler

BBC News calls Ziegler a singer. In addition to all the references already in the article discussing Ziegler's albums and songs, here are more articles discussing Ziegler's albums and songs: Billboard, Paper, which reviews 3 of Ziegler's songs in one article, PopSugar, E!, Teen Vogue, Elite Daily, People, Seventeen, CelebMix, Entertainment Tonight, Seventeen again, Paper again, Yahoo!, 1883, 2Paragraphs, and The Things. -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:45, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Agree re above so the article should stay as it is with "singer" remaining in place. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 12:30, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Updated Photo of Mackenzie Ziegler

Could someone please upload a recent photo with no copyright to Wiki Upload page? The photo currently listed is from 2018, which is quite outdated considering it was four years ago. Jacksongreen1442 (talk) 23:31, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2022

{{edit semi-protected|Mackenzie Ziegler 18 years Old 2601:83:201:A980:B4CF:823F:41CF:4C69 (talk) 02:58, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

The article gives her birth date. Readers can do the math. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:12, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2022 (2)

2601:83:201:A980:B4CF:823F:41CF:4C69 (talk) 02:59, 14 August 2022 (UTC) Age 18

The article gives her birth date. Readers can do the math. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:13, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

New discussion on infoboxes on Maddie's talk page

Hi guys. I thought I'd let you know that a discussion on adding infoboxes to Maddie's article is currently occurring, and the discussion has also mentioned adding Kenzie's infobox as well in an attempt to change consensus. Some editors who more actively edit both Maddie and Mackenzie's article have already commented (notably Ssilvers); thought I would give others an opportunity to comment as the discussion's result may transfer to both Ziegler sisters' articles. Just thought I'd let y'all know. Thanks! InvadingInvader (talk) 17:45, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

This article (see above) has a very clear consensus against adding an infobox. As Arbcom has made clear, a WP:INFOBOX can only be added to an existing article if editors that that specific article reach a consensus to add one. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:38, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Bring back the infobox. It's about time.

Mackenzie Ziegler
Ziegler in 2018
Born	Mackenzie Frances Ziegler (2004-06-04) June 4, 2004 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US
Years active	2011–present
Relatives	Maddie Ziegler (sister)
Musical career
Genres	Pop
Instruments	Vocals
Labels	Hollywood Records

So I did a little bit more reading into the entire concept of Infoboxes as Ssilvers' previously pointed out, and it seems like that Mackenzie deserves one even more so than Maddie, referencing the discussion on Maddie's talk page. In contrast to Maddie, Mackenzie is a recording artist and more of a public figure than her older sister, which warrants the inclusion of her record label (which according to the most recent single she released is the Disney subsidiary Hollywood Records), and it seems like that any well-written lead would not be able to graphically represent the information in a way that the infobox accommodates to certain audiences. Ssilvers' reasons as presented on Maddie's infobox. The information as presented in the box, while relatively trivial compared to Ziegler's life story, is a crucial part of her career and the laid-out structure of an infobox allows for much quicker retrieval of information for humans. The foregoing, and Ssilvers' previous easily-refutable arguments on vandalism towards infoboxes on Maddie's IB discussion (lol we can revert and rollback vandalism with one or two clicks) to me justifies the inclusion of some sort of infobox, and I encourage the community to strongly change its consensus against Mackenzie's infobox inclusion. I've also inserted a suggested infobox for Ziegler to the side. Pinging previous discussion participants @Ssilvers, @SchroCat, @Hunterm267, @UWS Guy to this discussion, as well as participants on the Maddie IB discussion @Geraldo Perez, @Dronebogus, @Wizzito, @Tim Riley, @Jack1956, @Nemov, and @Somambulant1 for their thoughts. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 02:05, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I'd recommend starting an RfC to broaden the discussion outside those who have already discussed this topic. Thanks! Nemov (talk) 02:54, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I'd be willing to start an RFC if we can't get an immediate consensus on this. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 03:06, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I support adding an infobox to this article. There is sufficient information to make it useful. Specifically birth info including most importantly her age which isn't included anywhere else in the article. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:01, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose infobox. While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not. See Signpost report: "Infoboxes may be particularly unsuited to liberal arts fields when they repeat information already available in the lead section of the article, are misleading or oversimplify the topic for the reader". I disagree with including an infobox in this article because: (1) The box emphasizes unimportant and unreferenced factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance, in competition with the WP:LEAD section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. For example, it names, without a cite, a record label that is not even mentioned in the article. It also states, without any citation, that her genre is pop. (2) Since the most important points in the article are already discussed in the Lead and also in the body of the article, the box is a redundant 3rd mention of these facts, such as name, date and place of birth, years active, and sister's name,.On the other hand, it fails to mention her notable acting career. (3) It hampers the impact of the Lead, and discourage readers from reading the text of the article. (4) Vandalism that is added to the box will be more difficult to detect because of the lack of referencing in the box; (5) Boxes in liberal arts biographies like this attract fancruft and repeated arguments among editors about what to include. (6) The box will distract editors from focusing on the content of the article. Instead of improving the article, they will spend time working on, and arguing about, this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:17, 9 December 2022 (UTC)