:::::::::(ec) Nobody has ever called them "Elgin's Marbles". As was pointed out to you above, but you failed to grasp, the British Museum has only some of the surviving sculptures. You should read [[Parthenon#Sculpture]], [[Metopes of the Parthenon]], [[Parthenon Frieze]] and [[Pediments of the Parthenon]], not to mention [[Acropolis Museum]]. It would be misleading to call this article [[Parthenon sculptures]], which covers a much larger group. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 00:43, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::(ec) Nobody has ever called them "Elgin's Marbles". As was pointed out to you above, but you failed to grasp, the British Museum has only some of the surviving sculptures. You should read [[Parthenon#Sculpture]], [[Metopes of the Parthenon]], [[Parthenon Frieze]] and [[Pediments of the Parthenon]], not to mention [[Acropolis Museum]]. It would be misleading to call this article [[Parthenon sculptures]], which covers a much larger group. [[User:Johnbod|Johnbod]] ([[User talk:Johnbod|talk]]) 00:43, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::The article already sufficiently covers the sinking of the Mentor and the recovery of the marbles from it. Please read the article carefully before you propose changes. [[User:Aemilius Adolphin|Aemilius Adolphin]] ([[User talk:Aemilius Adolphin|talk]]) 00:44, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::The article already sufficiently covers the sinking of the Mentor and the recovery of the marbles from it. Please read the article carefully before you propose changes. [[User:Aemilius Adolphin|Aemilius Adolphin]] ([[User talk:Aemilius Adolphin|talk]]) 00:44, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::Your argument is invalid- If you arguing the case for distinction between 'Elgin's' and all other sculptures, why the 'Parthenon sculptures' or 'Parthenon marbles' search redirects to 'Elgin marbles'? The article needs to be rewritten. [[User:Ipodamos|Ipodamos]] ([[User talk:Ipodamos|talk]]) 00:46, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
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the title 'Elgin marbles' is controversial and insulting for many people and scholars. According to most researchers, Elgin has actually damaged the Parthenon temple in order to extract the decorative marble sculptures and he sold them to British Museum after a very short period. The conditions under which Elgin removed the sculptures are at least nefarious; no original Ottoman firman has been produced to this day to legitimise Elgin's actions. therefore it is not reasonable to continue to call them Elgin's. Regardless, these are sculptures, not marbles (marble is a material). I propose to rename the article to Parthenon sculptures as is the norm among classicist scholars and redirect 'Elgin marbles' to the same wikipage. Ipodamos (talk) 23:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is a difference between the Elgin Marbles, ie the marbles acquired by Elgin, and sculptures from the Parthenon. The article explains the difference. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:00, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The difference is actually erroneous and is not backed up by the literature. There is no such thing as marbles and sculptures: they are all sculpted marble pieces. Also, the part about the drowning of Elgin's ship with the sculptures on his first trip from Athens is missing: this is a crucial piece of the history of the sculptures. Ipodamos (talk) 00:05, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To reach consensus, I guess I have to convince you to address all marbles as sculptures as a beginning: do you disagree or you think that a material describes perfectly well these pieces of art? Ipodamos (talk) 00:16, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Have a look at the Further Reading section of this article and you will see that in English it is common to refer to ancient sculptures as marbles. It's a bit old fashioned but is still in use, especially for the Elgin Marbles. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:17, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Aemilius: Absolutely, this terminology is quite outdated and has mainly persisted in usage within the UK. I'm curious whether this Wikipedia page is accessible solely to readers in the UK or if it's intended for a broader audience. Even within the UK, the contemporary and more current term for them is "sculptures." Ipodamos (talk) 00:22, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Moreover, I contend that the persistence of the term "Elgin's Marbles" reflects a political position rather than a scholarly one. Ipodamos (talk) 00:33, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They refer to sculptures from the Parthenon as Parthenon sculptures. But the Elgin Marbles refers to the entire collecion of marbles acquired by Elgin. They are from the Parthenon, the Erechtheion, the Temple of Athena Nike and the Propylaia. I'm sure you agree that a marble from the Propylaia isn't a Parthenon sculture? I reiterate that this is an article about the marbles acquired by Elgin. There is already another article about the Metopes of the Parthenon and the Parthenon Frieze. I'm not sure whether there is one about the pediment sculptures. There is also an article about the Parthenon which discusses the sculptures. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:39, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article already sufficiently covers the sinking of the Mentor and the recovery of the marbles from it. Please read the article carefully before you propose changes. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:44, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your argument is invalid- If you arguing the case for distinction between 'Elgin's' and all other sculptures, why the 'Parthenon sculptures' or 'Parthenon marbles' search redirects to 'Elgin marbles'? The article needs to be rewritten. Ipodamos (talk) 00:46, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]