Talk:Mungo Park (explorer)

DOB

Many sources give Sept 10 as his D.O.B. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.220.141.60 (talk • contribs) 09:44, 10 September 2004 (UTC)

translation from german article

This article should be replaced by the german article (i.e. complete rewrite), which is up to date and also much better and which also includes a map. Please see http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mungo_Park

I (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Nachtigall) have written this article and frankly, there are many aspects in the engl. article which are not correct. I do not want to go into detail, because a translation will clean it up anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.46.40 (talk • contribs) 21:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

That would be great! -- Stbalbach 13:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I've made a start, from (where else!) the beginning of the article, drawing on Nachtigall's text in the German and my own knowledge and texts on Park. I will go over the rest as I get the chance, although would welcome a hand since even with Babelfish my German translation skills aren't great. Greycap 18:16, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Greycap and Stbalbach. I would be willing to review the article (and assist in this way), but my english is not fine enough to translate it myself. I also added a request to Wikipedia:German-English_translation_requests/biographies#Natural_Science_and_Medicine Do not be put off by the lenght of the German article, there are quite a few cites in it that can be copied'n'pasted. Nachtigall 22:14, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

DOB

My name is Ben Park and I am a direct descendent of Mungo. Many sources on the net and in books state Mungo’s actual DOB been the 10th Sep, not 11th as listed on wikipedia. As a descendent of Mungo, my farther inspired my imagination as a young boy with tales of his expeditions and theories of his death in 1806. I also share what I believe to be his DOB the 10th Sep. (B Park) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpa599 (talk • contribs) 23:31, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The latest biographies state that the BoD is probably 11 Sep 1771. For instance, Mark Duffill: Mungo Park: West African Explorer aus der Reihe Scots’ Lives, NMS Publishing Limited, Edinburgh 1999, ISBN 1901663159 says:

Mungo Park was born ... very probably on the 11 September 1771. This is the date recorded in the baptismal register, though in several biographies and other works of reference 10 September is the given date.

Also Kenneth Lupton: Mungo Park the African Traveler, Oxford University Press, Oxford 1979, ISBN 0-19-211749-1 (the best biographie) states it in a very similar manner (do not have the book at hand right now) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nachtigall (talk • contribs) 21:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

hi...error about surviving family.

hi.

not being funny but im one of his desendants and i can tell you we dont have family living in canada. we have most of his stuff so can you please take out the bit about family left. thanks.

if you wanna redo it thats fine but the family wont last long cos their are no more boys in the family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.6.91 (talk • contribs) 19:16, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Mungo Park

'What is Mungo Park????/' —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rinishka (talk • contribs) 02:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Son's grave

I found the grave of Mungo Park's last surviving son at Stone Parish Church today 11th October 2008-I am adding it to Findagrave —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.52.184 (talk) 23:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Dissenter?

Is it right to call him a Dissenter? I thought the term had a meaning only in England and Wales. As I understand it, if he was a Calvinist in Scotland he would have been one of the orthodox and not have suffered from any civil disabilities. Or was he unorthodox in his Calvinism?Campolongo (talk) 05:18, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Piece Missing

The section headed "Death" begins in the middle of a sentence. Some text has been lost. Can it be reinserted?Campolongo (talk) 05:42, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Soted 86.149.30.237 (talk) 19:20, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Date of death

This letter in the Geographical Journal of February 1921, from the then Governor of Nigeria, Sir Hugh Clifford, to Alfred Milner, 1st Viscount Milner, Secretary of State for the Colonies, suggests Mungo Park did not die until 15 June 1806. This was the day before an eclipse of the sun was visible at Boussa.

This is 5 months later than the accepted date of January 1806.

Has this evidence been considered by modern-day historians? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:49, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I have the 1979 book by Lupton - one of the sources used in the article. Lupton mentions the Clifford letter but doesn't take it seriously. Appendix III in Lupton contains a chronological list of reports of Park's death. The Clifford letter is mentioned in number 32 (of 33) on page 239 (google snippet here). An eclipse of the sun on the day following Park's death is mentioned in a 1913 report by a Mr Clarke. There was a partial eclipse of the sun visible in Bussa on 16 June 1806 and a full eclipse on 29 November 1807. Lupton continues: "neither of which fitted the theory well. Clifford said he had caused further inquiries to be made but could not obtain any further information." Aa77zz (talk) 17:13, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Issaco was elsewhere.

In the following lines from the Death section, this article says Issaco was captured, then rescued by Park. Yet earlier, Issaco had been sent to Gambia with letters instead of continuing with the party for the final section of the journey. Months later, Issaco would be sent back to the Niger to investigate. I can't see how he could possibly have been the captive at the island near Caffo. Surely the text must be taking about Amadi or another of the group instead? "After a close encounter with a hippopotamus they continued past Caffo (3 canoes) to an island where Isaaco was taken prisoner. Park rescued him, and 20 canoes chased them. This time they merely asked Amadi for trinkets which Park supplied." - Egmonster (talk) 13:13, 16 July 2018 (UTC)

He was the first Westerner known to have travelled to the central portion

The original claim in the lead was that he was "the first Westerner known to have travelled to the central portion". Whatever knowledge the indigenous people had of the river, they were not Westerners. Therefore if the lead is left alone it is accurate and uncontentious.

The question over discovering the course (which 2600:6c5a:5080:3000:148:1205:1837:4e8 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) introduced) is harder to be certain about. There clearly were people living along its banks, and indeed there was the Timbukto civilisation. These people would have known the river in their vicinity but possibly only as far as the next village or trading settlement. As Park discovered, travelling along the river into other people's territory was not without risk. The question posed implicitly by 2600:6c5a:5080:3000:148:1205:1837:4e8 is how much of the course of the river people would have known. Without some sort of evidence it is difficult to say, and hence should not be claimed within the encyclopaedia (see WP:RS). What is documented is that Park explored at least 1,000 miles (1,600 km) of the Niger. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:35, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

"Mungo Park (explorer" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Mungo Park (explorer and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 27#Mungo Park (explorer until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 19:33, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Non-encyclopedic writing

"If the African Association was the "beginning of the age of African exploration" then Mungo Park was its first successful explorer;"

This line begins a paragraph in the introduction. There is no previous mention of any "African Association". What is it?

Who said it was the "beginning of the age of African exploration"? This is a direct quotation. From whom? Amandajm (talk) 17:14, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

The answer is in the body of the article. The WP:LEAD section is (typically) unsourced summary of key points of notability from the body of the article. -- GreenC 18:10, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Anglocentric, inaccurate, should be recontextualized

Leaving aside the obvious stylistic error of this being written like a biographical essay rather than a reference article, African exploration was hardly pioneered by Park, and the focus entirely on British society and exploration of Africa is wildly blinkered. Also leaving aside the question of Eurocentricity generally, and neglecting the indigenous inhabitants of Africa, who doubtless did not considered their homelands to be 'unexplored', there was thriving trade and frequent visits and exploratory missions made by, among others, the Portuguese, who were trading from the interior of central Africa in the 1400s. Before that, medieval North Africans and Mediterreans conducted vigourous trans-Saharan trade for gold with the sub-Saharan Ghana Empire. Mansa Musa famously went from the Sahel to Arabia for hadj in 1324-Arabians led him there. The Royal Geographical Society in Britain was founded in the 1600s, a century before the African Association and devoted a great deal of resources to exploring Africa. All of this is documented historically and researched and written about in modern scholarship; in no way can Mungo Park be described as "[Africa's] first successful explorer; he set a standard for all who followed." Rather, he was following standards already set out long ago and his primary claim to notoriety (notability) is writing a popular travel book about Africa, and not for setting any kinds of precendent. Another example is Olaudah Equiano, who published his autobiography, which included an extensive travelogue of Africa, in 1789, ten years before Park. I am not an expert andthere are doubtless many more examples, these are simply off the top of my head. This article should be rewritten to remove the inaccurate and misleading hagiography of Park as a 'man of firsts', and winnowed down to supported facts presented in proper historical context. 74.104.130.145 (talk) 16:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)