Talk:Arab–Byzantine wars: Difference between revisions
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It seems that this page makes the Arab victories look better, but Egypt and Lybia is in North Africa so why doesn't it just say North Africa [[Special:Contributions/2A02:587:B404:7B00:F098:8DA2:D30F:DB9B|2A02:587:B404:7B00:F098:8DA2:D30F:DB9B]] ([[User talk:2A02:587:B404:7B00:F098:8DA2:D30F:DB9B|talk]]) 12:39, 27 July 2023 (UTC) |
It seems that this page makes the Arab victories look better, but Egypt and Lybia is in North Africa so why doesn't it just say North Africa [[Special:Contributions/2A02:587:B404:7B00:F098:8DA2:D30F:DB9B|2A02:587:B404:7B00:F098:8DA2:D30F:DB9B]] ([[User talk:2A02:587:B404:7B00:F098:8DA2:D30F:DB9B|talk]]) 12:39, 27 July 2023 (UTC) |
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== Result == |
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The "Result" in the infobox is a mess and has been being arbitrarily edited several times recently. The guidelines at [[Template:Infobox military conflict]] state this for the "Result" parameter: <br> |
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<small>"''optional ''– this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say. In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive", "marginal" or "tactical", or contradictory statements like "decisive tactical victory but strategic defeat". Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in speculation about which side won or by how much."</small> |
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If this article really does cover a many different wars over four centuries (a little vague to be honest), it doesn't seem reasonable to try and state any single result. The results should be stated for individual wars/battles at their respective articles instead, while this remains an [[Wikipedia:Broad-concept article|overview article]]. Based on the guideline cited above, I'm [[WP:BOLD]] removing the result and recommending letting the article speak for itself rather than using this optional parameter of the infobox. But feel free to revert and discuss further if that seems like the wrong solution. [[User:R Prazeres|R Prazeres]] ([[User talk:R Prazeres|talk]]) 20:27, 19 April 2024 (UTC) |
Revision as of 20:27, 19 April 2024
Arab–Byzantine wars was one of the Warfare good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Merge
There is this entry for the "Byzantine-Arab Wars" and there is a separate entry entitled "Byzantine-Arab Wars (780-1180)". It would be better to combine these two entries. LAWinans (talk) 18:53, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
- Support. Merge here from unWP:TERSE alternative. — LlywelynII 12:54, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Support, but as a sidenote, there is actually scope for the other article, if it were reduced in time to cover the so-called "Byzantine offensive" from ca. 863 until ca. 1050. I plan to do that eventually, in parallel to a further periodization of the Arab-Byzantine conflict before that, but until then I agree that the article doesn't offer much to stand as a separate entry, plus the fact that the cut-off point at 1180 is entirely arbitrary and counter-factual, Manuel's expedition against Egypt was part of the Crusades, not of the Arab-Byzantine wars which ended with the arrival of the Seljuks in the mid-11th century. Constantine ✍ 13:21, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
- Here's my plea for Constantine to give this merge proposal another look: any chance that you could bring your expertise to bear on this one, as it is now the very last of the October 2012 merge proposals left to be cleared? Others would also be welcome to give it a go (it's rather far from my expertise). Klbrain (talk) 11:07, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
Roman Paelestina
The article mentions, a redlinked, "Roman Paelestina". Considering that the Roman province of Syria Palaestina was disestablished some 250/300 years before the events mentioned, is this referring to Palaestina Prima, Palaestina Secunda or Palaestina Salutaris? Sotakeit (talk) 09:19, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Assessment comment
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Arab–Byzantine wars/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
1. Well written?: Good mechanics. Very few errors in spelling/grammar. Smooth transition between paragraphs and sentences.
2. Factually accurate?: The article is factually accurate based on the references shown. 3. Broad in coverage?: Thoroughness of content is significantly evident. 4. Neutral point of view?: The biases expressed in the sources are all expressed in the article. 5. Article stability?: Stability evident. 6. Images?: The article contains images that neatly visualize the events that transpired during the Byzantine-Arab Wars.Overall, the article "Byzantine-Arab Wars" is both well-written and well-sourced. Deucalionite 15:31, 14 March 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 06:16, 21 February 2013 (UTC). Substituted at 08:08, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
GA Reassessment
Arab–Byzantine wars
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • • GAN review not found
- Result: Open for seven weeks and issues not fixed; delisted. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:48, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
GA from 2007. There are some uncited areas in the article that should be addressed. Onegreatjoke (talk) 16:18, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
- Pinging Cplakidas. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:46, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
- I'll help backfill some sourcing, but will have more time after a week or so. Iskandar323 (talk) 17:25, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I would love to take this on, as I had long ago started a personal project to write a series of good articles on this conflict, but I have really little time to devote to it at the moment due to real life concerns. Constantine ✍ 16:38, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
- I guessed from your contributions, Cplakidas. Do you think there is any chance you may be freer in the next couple of months? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 08:39, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
- I am very reluctant to promise anything. If I do this the way I want to, it represents a major commitment of time: I would effectively rewrite the entire article. And right now I find myself pressed for time even to do a GA review. Constantine ✍ 06:53, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
- Alright. Iskandar323 do you still intend to work on this article, or should I delist it? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:39, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
- It fell to the bottom of the pile a bit, but that is still the plan. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:44, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
- Maintenance underway. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:54, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
- @Iskandar323: are you planning further improvements in the near future? Trainsandotherthings (talk) 22:44, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
- Maintenance underway. Iskandar323 (talk) 14:54, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
- It fell to the bottom of the pile a bit, but that is still the plan. Iskandar323 (talk) 12:44, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
- Alright. Iskandar323 do you still intend to work on this article, or should I delist it? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:39, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
- I would love to take this on, as I had long ago started a personal project to write a series of good articles on this conflict, but I have really little time to devote to it at the moment due to real life concerns. Constantine ✍ 16:38, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
Innacuracy
It seems that this page makes the Arab victories look better, but Egypt and Lybia is in North Africa so why doesn't it just say North Africa 2A02:587:B404:7B00:F098:8DA2:D30F:DB9B (talk) 12:39, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
Result
The "Result" in the infobox is a mess and has been being arbitrarily edited several times recently. The guidelines at Template:Infobox military conflict state this for the "Result" parameter:
"optional – this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say. In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive", "marginal" or "tactical", or contradictory statements like "decisive tactical victory but strategic defeat". Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in speculation about which side won or by how much."
If this article really does cover a many different wars over four centuries (a little vague to be honest), it doesn't seem reasonable to try and state any single result. The results should be stated for individual wars/battles at their respective articles instead, while this remains an overview article. Based on the guideline cited above, I'm WP:BOLD removing the result and recommending letting the article speak for itself rather than using this optional parameter of the infobox. But feel free to revert and discuss further if that seems like the wrong solution. R Prazeres (talk) 20:27, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
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