Wikipedia talk:Tambayan Philippines: Difference between revisions
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::Funny enough, the last topic at that talk page is a clarification since people quoting this guideline always misunderstand what it means. [[User:Howard the Duck|Howard the Duck]] ([[User talk:Howard the Duck|talk]]) 15:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC) |
::Funny enough, the last topic at that talk page is a clarification since people quoting this guideline always misunderstand what it means. [[User:Howard the Duck|Howard the Duck]] ([[User talk:Howard the Duck|talk]]) 15:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:::Interesting. Both of those cases seem to parallel this one. Out of curiosity, I looked at the renaming of ''Mount McKinley'' to ''Denali''; that seems to have been done to track a governmental renaming, not because of language prevalence in sources (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denali%E2%80%93Mount_McKinley_naming_dispute#Denali_established_as_official_name][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Denali&diff=678668932&oldid=678668422][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Denali&diff=next&oldid=678669974]). [[User:Wtmitchell|Wtmitchell]] [[User talk:Wtmitchell|(talk)]] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 01:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC) |
:::Interesting. Both of those cases seem to parallel this one. Out of curiosity, I looked at the renaming of ''Mount McKinley'' to ''Denali''; that seems to have been done to track a governmental renaming, not because of language prevalence in sources (see [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denali%E2%80%93Mount_McKinley_naming_dispute#Denali_established_as_official_name][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Denali&diff=678668932&oldid=678668422][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Denali&diff=next&oldid=678669974]). [[User:Wtmitchell|Wtmitchell]] [[User talk:Wtmitchell|(talk)]] <small>(earlier ''Boracay Bill'')</small> 01:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Ah, reversion to original native names prior to when White guys named these places. Probably like [[Uluru]] vs. Ayers rock, or even [[Kolkata]] vs. Calcutta. [[User:Howard the Duck|Howard the Duck]] ([[User talk:Howard the Duck|talk]]) 15:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC) |
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== Request for page protection - [[Alice Guo]] == |
== Request for page protection - [[Alice Guo]] == |
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Billboard PH charts before 2017?
Just found this from one article about one Connie Francis song ("Wishing It Was You"), looks like Billboard had Philippine charts before the now-defunct Philippines Hot 100 and the existing Philippine Songs. Not sure about its last publication. If that stretched up to Billboard Philippines Hot 100 launch, good news; we might be able to craft out a list of number-one singles in PH from the 50s/60s to present (we currently don't have one yet aside from those covered as sections of the respective charts' pages). TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 06:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, maybe there are several from the 1960s. But I highly doubt we would find a PH chart for the other decades, especially the 2010s. They just didn't have the rights for it. All we have are radio, and MTV, and Myx. Unfortunately, those won't be accepted. D-Flo27 (talk) 12:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- @D-Flo27 It's been almost two weeks, but I have some thoughts. Well, most radio-only charts won't be acceptable for WP, but Canada got CHUM Chart (from a radio station in Toronto) for singles chart rankings in that country until 1964.
- As additional background, I have previously asked if there is a good pre-2017 music chart in a thread that started off with non-PH acts or singles known largely in PH. It ended up with the best bets for a being largely radio station charts, which would usually fail WP:Record charts. But with nothing like Billboard Philippine charts from the 60s(?) down to 2017, I am thinking if even we would end up taking up a radio station chart for PH singles rankings (with a good explanation of course), just as with Canada taking up CHUM's chart for pre-1964 singles as it had some prominence as an indicator of the popular hits in that country, which was soon taken up by RPM from late 1964 to late 2000 and Billboard Canada from late 2000 to present. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 03:45, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Article titles in Filipino
I remember past discussions here and/or on individual article talk pages about this. I'm raising it again here. Is there a project-level stance on this? If not, I think that there should be.
This edit to this talk page came up on my watchlist. The change there related to the Libingan ng mga Bayani article. Quoting the lead sentence of the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) guidline:
The title of an article should generally use the version of the name of the subject that is most common in the English language, as you would find it in reliable sources (for example other encyclopedias and reference works, scholarly journals, and major news sources).
I emphasize here the words should generally use).
Please understand that the Filipino language is very much a minority language in the world, that this is the English language Wikipedia, that most Wikipedia users do not read Filipino, [..] (I cut that list short because the items I have mentioned are pretty obvious and have probably been mentioned on past discussions on this issue, along with numerous (and important, from the viewpoint of a reader not literate in the Filipino language -- i.e., the great majorigity of Wikipedia readerrs) similar unmentioned items).
Besides the Libingan ng mga Bayani article (see some searches for alternative English language titles at [1] [2] [3] [4] [5]), there's the Bantayog ng mga Bayani article (one English language alternative is Monument of Heroes -- see [6], etc.) and, probably, some others.
Please, project members, discuss this and come to a project-level stance on this. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 23:31, 3 May 2024 (UTC)
- We can probably do an RFC here (could be this very thread). My position is that we should generally use the most common name as used by English-language reliable sources, with a bias on locally-produced sources. To give a few examples:
- Note that these names are proper names and so they don't have to be translated when used as article titles just because some sources have done so per WP:COMMONNAME. We use the most common name predominantly used by English-language sources and English-language sources in the Philippines predominantly use the Filipino-based proper names.
- Furthermore, this is not an issue unique to the Philippines. Ireland, a predominantly English-using country (to the detriment of its native Irish language), have article titles in Irish even though some reliable sources have referred to the corresponding entities with their common English translations: Taoiseach (instead of "Prime Minister of Ireland"), Dáil Éireann (instead of "Assembly of Ireland", ), and Oireachtas (instead of "Parliament of Ireland"). If using "non-English" titles is good enough for Ireland, then it should be good enough for the Philippines. —seav (talk) 04:24, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
- Our policy is WP:USEENGLISH, or use thw name English language sources use. This means many non-English names will be used. We call the city by the in California "San Francisco" , not "Saint Francis".
- I suppose English names may be used, and my personal standard is if it's used to the level that it is not astonishing for most people as the non-English name, like "Day of Valor" vs. "Araw ng Kagitingan" (even calendars now use the English name, for example). Libingan and Bantayog are almost never refered to its English names, and Pamantasan just barely so. Howard the Duck (talk) 05:58, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
- If English-language sources routinely uses Filipino names then we should used them with bias to Philippine-based sources as per MOS:TIES. To list some examples
- Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas not Central Bank of the Philippines (also a former official name)
- Samahang Basketbol ng Pilipinas not Basketball Association of the Philippines (which shares name with a rival entity)
- Commission on the Filipino Language this is a bit tricky since the website mostly publishes Filipino/Tagalog media due to its mandate but even then the most English language cites given in the past failed move request includes both the local name and the official and more obscure English name CFL (quote "Komisyon sa Wikang Filipino (KWF) or Commission on the Filipino Language")— Preceding unsigned comment added by Hariboneagle927 (talk • contribs)
- English is an official language in the Philippines as well, and generally speaking, many sources will publish in Tagalog (or Cebuano, etc) and in English. I think we need to give more weight to what English names they are using in these circumstances. Not everything should be a English equivalent, but things don't translate perfectly (try translating the word kilig for example), and what we are concerned with is the most commonly used name by English speakers, not American or British English speakers. If PH papers are using the PH names when reporting in English, then that is probably the right name, at least most of the time. Fwhetor example, I would say Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas is the right name, and Central Bank of the Philippines is the right redirect. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 00:09, 5 May 2024 o effectiveky searable t(UTC)
- I'm traveling for te next few days or weeks and not able to do much research, but it occurs to me to wonder whether the English language sources you speak of might be predominately sources appearing in the Philippines and with readership expectations mostly made up of Filipinos literate in both English and Tagalog. If that is the case, I would say that sampling of sources is heavily weighted and not very representative of or relevant to the bulk of WP article readership. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:21, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- Much of the English language WP:RS about Philippine topics are from the Philippines. As per MOS:TIES, we'd give Philippine sources importance over other sources; some foreign sources are even written by Filipinos themselves, globalized by that foreign WP:RS editors to make it relatable to their audience: for example, Ben Evardone was once described as MP from Eastern Samar by the BBC.
- The most notorious about this was when Libingan ng mga Bayani was moved because an Indian WP:RS used the English translation, and that was the basis of the move. Seriously, much love to Indian WP:RS, but that does not make sense. Howard the Duck (talk) 08:28, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- I am also wary about foreign sources continuously referring to Congress of the Philippines as parliament and confusing everyone with using the term when discussing 2024 constitutional reform attempts in the Philippines. Borgenland (talk) 10:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- When we speak of WP:COMMONNAME, we aren't addressing Wikipedia's readership, we are talking about sources. And yes, most English sources about the Philippines are likely to come from the Philippines. Except for the recent activity in the West Philippines Sea, the rest of the world often doesn't pay much attention to what happens here anyway. Even if sources were evenly split, and you had to pick one name, you would lean towards what local English sources use because again, English is one of two official languages here. If the bulk of the sources use a western English name, then sure, you use that name. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 11:34, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW, I'd be okay with an English language name if it's just as widespread as the non-English name, or at least it wouldn't leave Filipinos astonished, as per my suggestion on Day of Valor vs. Araw ng Kagitingan. Howard the Duck (talk) 11:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- That sounds right, it will be a spectrum and there will be a few where there probably isn't a correct answer. CMD (talk) 11:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- If I may please add the Bantayog ng mga Bayani as being one of those proper names that are never translated into English because it's a proper name. And even the formal name of the organization is "Bantayog ng mga Bayani Foundation, Inc." - Chieharumachi (talk) 14:35, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- It being a proper name should be of little significance, title-wise (WP:OFFICIAL). As stated earlier, "Araw ng Kagitingan" is a proper name, is stated as the name of the holiday in a law otherwise written in English, yet the article is at Day of Valor. If an English name is widely used, we should use it, even if the non-English name can claim to be more numerous in WP:RS, again subject to some exceptions.
- With that being said, Bantayog ng mga Bayani is almost never translated into English, so should probably stay there. Howard the Duck (talk) 18:38, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- If I may please add the Bantayog ng mga Bayani as being one of those proper names that are never translated into English because it's a proper name. And even the formal name of the organization is "Bantayog ng mga Bayani Foundation, Inc." - Chieharumachi (talk) 14:35, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- That sounds right, it will be a spectrum and there will be a few where there probably isn't a correct answer. CMD (talk) 11:59, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW, I'd be okay with an English language name if it's just as widespread as the non-English name, or at least it wouldn't leave Filipinos astonished, as per my suggestion on Day of Valor vs. Araw ng Kagitingan. Howard the Duck (talk) 11:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'm traveling for te next few days or weeks and not able to do much research, but it occurs to me to wonder whether the English language sources you speak of might be predominately sources appearing in the Philippines and with readership expectations mostly made up of Filipinos literate in both English and Tagalog. If that is the case, I would say that sampling of sources is heavily weighted and not very representative of or relevant to the bulk of WP article readership. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:21, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not really focused on this but I've been looking at it as I get time. I'm surprised by the sparsity of items at the Heroes' Cemetery disambig page and at the lack of uniformity in naming of target articles there. Perhaps the lack of uniformity should be raised at WT:EN. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 13:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- Funny enough, the last topic at that talk page is a clarification since people quoting this guideline always misunderstand what it means. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- Interesting. Both of those cases seem to parallel this one. Out of curiosity, I looked at the renaming of Mount McKinley to Denali; that seems to have been done to track a governmental renaming, not because of language prevalence in sources (see [13][14][15]). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
- Ah, reversion to original native names prior to when White guys named these places. Probably like Uluru vs. Ayers rock, or even Kolkata vs. Calcutta. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
- Interesting. Both of those cases seem to parallel this one. Out of curiosity, I looked at the renaming of Mount McKinley to Denali; that seems to have been done to track a governmental renaming, not because of language prevalence in sources (see [13][14][15]). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:32, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
- Funny enough, the last topic at that talk page is a clarification since people quoting this guideline always misunderstand what it means. Howard the Duck (talk) 15:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Request for page protection - Alice Guo
Hi, is there a possibility to request for page protection against unverified edits for Alice Guo? There are lots of IP edits on going adding unverified claims and sometimes threat messages on the page since its creation. Thanks. — JL 09 talkcontribs 08:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- You can file a request here Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Borgenland (talk) 08:50, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Obituaries in Timelines
What were the rules in inserting pictures of deceased individuals in years in the Philippines timelines? I find it undue for example that Anita Linda and Danding Cojuangco were not included in the photo gallery for 2020 in the Philippines despite the former's long tenure in the film industry and the latter's infamy (for lack of a better term) in politics and business. Borgenland (talk) 16:27, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- No specific guidelines at least according to Wikipedia:Timeline standards. WP:GALLERY may provide guidelines, but under the letter of the text, it's more likely that the gallery should be removed entirely instead of added to. You may want to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Years, who might be better at maintaining the timeline articles. Chlod (say hi!) 04:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- @Borgenland: Forgot to ping. See above. Thanks! Chlod (say hi!) 04:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Invitation for the 2024 Developing Countries WikiContest
Hello, everyone! I'd like to invite you all to sign up for the upcoming 2024 Developing Countries WikiContest. The event runs from July 1 to September 30 and signups close on July 15. The WikiContest focuses on developing countries, which the Philippines is a part of. The intention is to improve the English Wikipedia's coverage and comprehension of articles related to developing countries. For this reason, you may also expect that articles related to the Philippines may be heavily edited during the contest. More information on how points will be awarded can be found at Wikipedia:2024 Developing Countries WikiContest/Scoring. For comments or suggestions, please don't hesitate to reach out to Wikipedia talk:2024 Developing Countries WikiContest. Thank you! Chlod (say hi!) 04:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Ang pagpapatibay ng Movement Charter
Nagbibigay-balita lang po.
The Wikimedia Movement Charter ratification is up ahead, from 25 June until 9 July, 2024.
Be a part of it.
Buszmail (talk) 04:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
- Or, in English, see m:Movement Charter. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:55, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
Update on missing OPM artist articles
Hello here, especially those on the PH Music task force
I would like to provide some update on the missing OPM artist drive. Maybe it's good someone already have an article about Odette Quesada, but I think we still need to look into the other missing OPM acts such as Lloyd Umali (which had a concert upcoming). Looks like the missing article on Filipino musicians and bands we maintain in the task force page are getting longer but there is not much effort in creating articles and recreating deleted ones. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 04:45, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
Ongoing vandalism
2024 in Philippine sports is being vandalized by an IP who keeps adding unsourced content despite multiple warnings. Have warned them off personally and filed a PP request but need extra eyes to monitor the page. Borgenland (talk) 15:33, 19 May 2024 (UTC)