Talk:Chandragupta Maurya: Difference between revisions
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He [[Special:Contributions/2409:40D1:1022:2A2B:B413:FAFF:FE90:2F8F|2409:40D1:1022:2A2B:B413:FAFF:FE90:2F8F]] ([[User talk:2409:40D1:1022:2A2B:B413:FAFF:FE90:2F8F|talk]]) 03:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC) |
He [[Special:Contributions/2409:40D1:1022:2A2B:B413:FAFF:FE90:2F8F|2409:40D1:1022:2A2B:B413:FAFF:FE90:2F8F]] ([[User talk:2409:40D1:1022:2A2B:B413:FAFF:FE90:2F8F|talk]]) 03:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC) |
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== Candragupta real name == |
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Candragupta real name [[User:Mohit atulkar|Mohit atulkar]] ([[User talk:Mohit atulkar|talk]]) 06:01, 5 June 2024 (UTC) |
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REGARDING RELIGION
One of the earliest recorded uses of the word śramaṇa, in the sense of a mendicant, is in verse 4.3.22 of the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad composed by about the 6th century BCE.[14]:4 8[16] The concept of renunciation and monk-like lifestyle is found in Vedic literature, with terms such as yatis, rishis, and śramaṇas.[17][18] The Vedic literature from pre-1000 BCE era, mentions Muni (मुनि, monks, mendicants, holy man).[19] Rig Veda, for example, in Book 10 Chapter 136, mentions mendicants as those with kēśin (केशिन्, long-haired) and mala clothes (मल, dirty, soil-colored, yellow, orange, saffron) engaged in the affairs of mananat (mind, meditation)
केश्यग्निं केशी विषं केशी बिभर्ति रोदसी । केशी विश्वं स्वर्दृशे केशीदं ज्योतिरुच्यते ॥१॥ मुनयो वातरशनाः पिशङ्गा वसते मला । वातस्यानु ध्राजिं यन्ति यद्देवासो अविक्षत ॥२॥ He with the long loose locks (of hair) supports Agni, and moisture, heaven, and earth; He is all sky to look upon: he with long hair is called this light. The Munis, girdled with the wind, wear garments of soil hue; They, following the wind's swift course, go where the Gods have gone before.
— Rig Veda, Hymn 10.136.1-2'
The hymn uses the term vātaraśana (वातरशन) which means "girdled with wind".[21][22] Some scholars have interpreted this to mean "sky-clad, naked monk" and therefore a synonym for Digambara (a Jainism sect). However, other scholars state that this could not be the correct interpretation because it is inconsistent with the words that immediately follow, "wearing soil-hued garments". The context likely means that the poet is describing the "munis" as moving like the wind, their garments pressed by the wind. According to Olivelle, it is unlikely that the vātaraśana implies a class within the Vedic context
ACCORDING TO FOWLER&FOWLER S WHITE SUPREMACIST CLAIMS CHANDRAGUPTA MAURYA WASNT A HINDU. BUT RATHER HE WAS A FOLOWER OF JAINISM BUT ANCIENT SOURCES MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN BRAHMANA AND SRAMANA AS SRAMANA IS FOUND IN THE VEDIC TRADITION.
Patrick Olivelle, a professor of Indology and known for his translations of major ancient Sanskrit works, states in his 1993 study that contrary to some representations, the original Śramaṇa tradition was a part of the Vedic one.[35] He writes,
Sramana in that context obviously means a person who is in the habit of performing srama. Far from separating these seers from the vedic ritual tradition, therefore, śramaṇa places them right at the center of that tradition. Those who see them [Sramana seers] as non-Brahmanical, anti-Brahmanical, or even non-Aryan precursors of later sectarian ascetics are drawing conclusions that far outstrip the available evidence.
— Patrick Olivelle, The Ashrama System
Several śramaṇa movements are known to have existed in India before the 6th century BCE (pre-Buddha, pre-Mahavira), and these influenced both the āstika and nāstika traditions of Indian philosophy.[28][29][page needed] Martin Wiltshire states that the Śramaṇa tradition evolved in India over two phases, namely Paccekabuddha and Savaka phases, the former being the tradition of individual ascetic and latter of disciples, and that Buddhism and Jainism ultimately emerged from these as sectarian manifestations.[30] These traditions drew upon already established Brahmanical concepts, states Wiltshire, to communicate their own distinct doctrines.[31] Reginald Ray concurs that Śramaṇa movements already existed and were established traditions in pre-6th century BCE India, but disagrees with Wiltshire that they were nonsectarian before the arrival of Buddha.
Brahmanism versus Hinduism
"Hinduism" did not exist in the 4th century BCE; it developed, as a synthesis of Brahmanical ideology, local religions, and shramana tarditions and ethics, between 500-300 BCE and 300 CE. To call the Brahmanical traditons to which Chandragupta Maurya adhered "ancient Hinduism," let alone "Hinduism," is anachronistic, and reflects a lack of understanding of the development of Indiaan religious traditions. What's more, the spurces used here are problematic, and/or don't reflec this pov:
- * Raychaudhuri, H. C. (1967), "India in the Age of the Nandas / Chandragupta and Bindusara", in K. A. Nilakanta Sastri (ed.), Age of the Nandas and Mauryas (Second ed.), Motilal Banarsidass (1988 reprint), ISBN 978-81-208-0466-1, pp. 163–164: "We have seen above that one of the occasions when the king came out of the palace was to offer sacrifice. This possibly implies that Chandragupta was known to the Greeks as a follower of the Brahmanical religion."
- Lal bhargava, Purushottam (1996). Chandragupta Maurya A Gem of Indian History. D.K Printworld. p. 44. ISBN 9788124600566.; first print 1935: Raj-era source, not accepted as WP:RS. The actual info is at p.42: "It is interesting to learn that the king left his palace to offer sacrifices also. The fact probably shows that Chandragupta was a Brahmanical Hindu at least for the greater part of his life, although he inclined towards Jainism during his last days, according to Jain authors." "Brahmanical Hindu" is anachronustic here.
- Sharma, Madhulika (2001). Fire Worship in Ancient India. Publication scheme. ISBN 9788186782576.: no pagenumber; nevertheless: "Chandragupta Maurya doubtless began as an orthodox follower of the Vedic religion."
- Majumdar, R. C.; Raychauduhuri, H. C.; Datta, Kalikinkar (1960), An Advanced History of India, London: Macmillan & Company Ltd; New York: St Martin's Press: "If the Jaina tradition is to be believed, Chandragupta was converted to the religion of Mahavira. He is said to have abdicated his throne and passed his last days at Sravana Belgola in Mysore. Greek evidence, however, suggests that the first Maurya did not give up the performance of Brahmanical sacrificial rites and was far from following the Jaina creed of Ahimsa or non-injury to animals. He took delight in hunting, a practice that was continued by his son and alluded to by his grandson in his eighth Rock Edict. It is, however, possible that in his last days he showed some predilection for Jainism ...}}
So, "Hinduism," or the misnomer "ancient Hinduism," is not supported by these sources, except Lal (1935), which is not WP:RS. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 18:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- will it be ok if we use vedic religion rather than the term brahamanism . Both signifies basically the same thing and also because brahamanism often today in India associated with caste system persecution. User: Joshua Jonathan Summerkillsme (talk) 07:20, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- No; Brahmanism developed out of the Vedic religion]], and is not exactly the same. And the Brahmanical ideology was an important factor in the development of the caste system ideology... Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 10:07, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Religion of Chandragupta Maurya
Since Chandragupta Maurya accepted Jainism his religion must be shown as Jainism and not Hinduism just as on wikipedia Ashoka's religion is shown as Buddhism since he converted himself to Buddhist. 59.94.11.17 (talk) 11:08, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- Brahmanism, that is. Some pov-pushing escaped our attention. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 12:46, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- If we visit wikipedia for information on Bukka Raya (1), we get to know that he was converted to Islam and again reconverted himself to Hindusism , the religion section on this page shows that he believed Hinduism, Vāsudeva I the last great king of the Kushanas is belived to be converted from Buddhism to Hinduism, here also his religion on wikipedia is shown as Hinduism. In practical life if someone converts his/her religion then his religion on indentity certificate also changes. So if Chandraguta converted his religion to Jainism then it is not correct to show his religion as Hinduism. So why religion of chandragupta is shown as Hinduism?. There is a need for a change in religion section of Chandragupta on wikipedia. 59.94.11.17 (talk) 15:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- so it is Niether Bhramanism nor Hinduism, it is Jainism 59.94.11.17 (talk) 16:12, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- I appeal to make changes of his religion from Brahmanism to Jainism 59.94.11.17 (talk) 16:18, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- I request to correct this mistake as soon as possible.
- Thank You 59.94.11.17 (talk) 05:29, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- Chandragupta Maurya died around 300 BCE in Shravanabelagola Karnataka (160 km from Bangalore). He embraced samadhi maran (a.k.a. Sallekhana) and left the world peacefully. Chandragupta Maurya travelled from Magadh to Shravanbelagola and became a Jain monk under Shrut Kevali Bhadrabahu.
- References- Oura And Britanica Jayvrr (talk) 11:52, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- So we can say Chandragupta followed Jainism after giving up the throne Jayvrr (talk) 11:54, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- I appeal to make changes of his religion from Brahmanism to Jainism 59.94.11.17 (talk) 16:18, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- so it is Niether Bhramanism nor Hinduism, it is Jainism 59.94.11.17 (talk) 16:12, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
- If we visit wikipedia for information on Bukka Raya (1), we get to know that he was converted to Islam and again reconverted himself to Hindusism , the religion section on this page shows that he believed Hinduism, Vāsudeva I the last great king of the Kushanas is belived to be converted from Buddhism to Hinduism, here also his religion on wikipedia is shown as Hinduism. In practical life if someone converts his/her religion then his religion on indentity certificate also changes. So if Chandraguta converted his religion to Jainism then it is not correct to show his religion as Hinduism. So why religion of chandragupta is shown as Hinduism?. There is a need for a change in religion section of Chandragupta on wikipedia. 59.94.11.17 (talk) 15:31, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
See ref 9. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 12:44, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 7 November 2023
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Since Chandragupta Maurya accepted Jainism, so his religion must be shown as Jainism and not Hinduism or Brahmanism just as on wikipedia Ashoka's religion is shown as Buddhism since he converted himself to Buddhist.
If we visit wikipedia for information on Bukka Raya (1), we get to know that he was converted to Islam and again reconverted himself to Hindusism , the religion section on this page shows that he believed Hinduism, Vāsudeva I the last great king of the Kushanas is belived to be converted from Buddhism to Hinduism, here also his religion on wikipedia is shown as Hinduism. In practical life if someone converts his/her religion then his religion on indentity certificate also changes. So if Chandraguta converted his religion to Jainism then it is not correct to show his religion as Hinduism. So why religion of chandragupta is shown as Hinduism?. There is a need for a change in religion section of Chandragupta on wikipedia.so it is Niether Bhramanism nor Hinduism, it is Jainism as I taked above, even on Brtanica his religion is shown as Jainism.
I appeal to make changes of his religion from Brahmanism to Jainism. I request to correct this mistake as soon as possible. Thank You Jayvrr (talk) 05:37, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- See ref 9. Period. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 12:43, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- I had already stated that he accepted Jainism after he left the throne. He might have delighted in these activities but later he accepted Jainism went on a way of non-violence just as Ashoka who first continued with violence but after war of Kalinga he accepted Buddhism. Jayvrr (talk) 13:44, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- Even Britanica and Qura accepted this.I Ashoka was delighted by blood-Shed before accepting Buddhism then on Wikipedia his religion must not be shown as Buddhism just because he accepted it later in his life Jayvrr (talk) 13:51, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- I had already stated that he accepted Jainism after he left the throne. He might have delighted in these activities but later he accepted Jainism went on a way of non-violence just as Ashoka who first continued with violence but after war of Kalinga he accepted Buddhism. Jayvrr (talk) 13:44, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
- Encyclopedia Britannica, Chandragupta (emphasis mine): "Traditionally, Chandragupta was influenced to accept Jainism by the sage Bhadrabahu I, who predicted the onset of a 12-year famine." It's a legend, as explained in the Wiki-article. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:26, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
- The Mudrarakshasa uses the Sanskrit term vrishala, employed for Kshatriyas and others who deviate from the Brahminical rules, to denote Chandragupta; “That Chandragupta did deviate from Brahminical orthodoxy is proved by his predilection shown for Jainism in his later years” (Majumdar, Raychaudhuri and Datta, p. 92). Both historical evidence and popular belief state that Chandragupta in his later years accepted Jainism. Inscriptions in Karnataka dating between 5th to 15th centuries CE mention a certain Chandragupta in connection with the Jaina saint Bhadrabahu.
- Source- world history encylopedia. Jayvrr (talk) 10:07, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
- Towards the end of his life, Chandragupta gave up his throne and became an ascetic under the Jain saint Bhadrabahu Swami, ending his days in sallekhana (self-starvation) at Shravanabelagola, in present day Karnataka. A small temple marks the cave (called Bhadrabahu Cave) where he died.
- Source- New world encylopedia Jayvrr (talk) 10:12, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
- Encyclopedia Britannica, Chandragupta (emphasis mine): "Traditionally, Chandragupta was influenced to accept Jainism by the sage Bhadrabahu I, who predicted the onset of a 12-year famine." It's a legend, as explained in the Wiki-article. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:26, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Stick to WP:RS please. World History Encyclopedia is crap. The text at New World Encyclopedia is unsourced. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 13:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
- Is there any other relevant source that states how Chandragupta Di ed and which religion he accepted? 2402:8100:31AD:E644:64FB:2FF:FE51:6B93 (talk) 15:44, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
- Scriptures in karnataka state that he was converted to Jainism. The Mudrarakshasa uses the Sanskrit term vrishala, employed for Kshatriyas and others who deviate from the Brahminical rules, to denote Chandragupta; “That Chandragupta did deviate from Brahminical orthodoxy is proved by his predilection shown for Jainism in his later years” (Majumdar, Raychaudhuri and Datta, p. 92). Both historical evidence and popular belief state that Chandragupta in his later years accepted Jainism. So his religion is Jainism 117.248.234.69 (talk) 04:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- scholars have taken Rice's deduction of Chandragupta Maurya retiring and dying in Shravanabelagola as the working hypothesis, since no alternative historical information or evidence is available about Chandragupta's final years and death. Jayvrr (talk) 04:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- As the scholars have supported Rice's statement we must also consider it and accept that Chandraguta accepted Jainism Jayvrr (talk) 04:21, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- scholars have taken Rice's deduction of Chandragupta Maurya retiring and dying in Shravanabelagola as the working hypothesis, since no alternative historical information or evidence is available about Chandragupta's final years and death. Jayvrr (talk) 04:15, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Scriptures in karnataka state that he was converted to Jainism. The Mudrarakshasa uses the Sanskrit term vrishala, employed for Kshatriyas and others who deviate from the Brahminical rules, to denote Chandragupta; “That Chandragupta did deviate from Brahminical orthodoxy is proved by his predilection shown for Jainism in his later years” (Majumdar, Raychaudhuri and Datta, p. 92). Both historical evidence and popular belief state that Chandragupta in his later years accepted Jainism. So his religion is Jainism 117.248.234.69 (talk) 04:09, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- See reference 9, again, where Majumdar, Raychaudhuri and Datta state (emphasis mine):
"Deviate" and "predilection" is not the same as "conversion." And who's Rice? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:14, 13 November 2023 (UTC)If the Jaina tradition is to be believed, Chandragupta was converted to the religion of Mahavira. He is said to have abdicated his throne and passed his last days at Sravana Belgola in Mysore. Greek evidence, however, suggests that the first Maurya did not give up the performance of Brahmanical sacrificial rites and was far from following the Jaina creed of Ahimsa or non-injury to animals. He took delight in hunting, a practice that was continued by his son and alluded to by his grandson in his eighth Rock Edict. It is, however, possible that in his last days he showed some predilection for Jainism.
- [From the Wiki-article:]
According to V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar – an Indologist and historian, several of the Digambara legends mention Prabhacandra, who had been misidentified as Chandragupta Maurya particularly after the original publication on Shravanabelagola epigraphy by B. Lewis Rice. The earliest and most important inscriptions mention Prabhacandra, which Rice presumed may have been the "clerical name assumed by Chadragupta Maurya" after he renounced and moved with Bhadrabahu from Patliputra. Dikshitar stated there is no evidence to support this and Prabhacandra was an important Jain monk scholar who migrated centuries after Chandragupta Maurya's death. Other scholars have taken Rice's deduction of Chandragupta Maurya retiring and dying in Shravanabelagola as the working hypothesis, since no alternative historical information or evidence is available about Chandragupta's final years and death.
- Jayvrr (talk) 10:40, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- as other scholars have supported B.Lewis Rice's statement of Chandragupta Maurya retiring and dying in Karnataka we can say that evidence in karnataka are true and chandragupt maurya accepted Jainism. Jayvrr (talk) 10:45, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Chandragupta Maurya retiring and dying in Karnataka we can say that evidence in karnataka are true and chandragupt maurya accepted Jainism
- that's your conclusion, isn't it? See WP:OR. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:55, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2023
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The origin of Chandragupta Maurya has not been written extensively in the article. All the Buddhist and Jain sources of the time mentions him a Kshatriya. The "Mahavansha" clearly mentions him a Kshatriya. Also,there are other inscriptional evidences which suggest that he was a Kshatriya. Please mention all the evidences.
Also, there are some clans who use Mori/more for themselves. Mori Rajput are a subclan of Parmar Rajputs and they had a vast and extensive Kingdom in western India before it was taken over by Bappa Rawal of Guhilot dynasty.The Rudradaman Junagarh inscription clearly mentions that Mauryas were of Kshatriya origin.Also, mention about the Chalisgaon temple inscription which mention Mauryas to be of Suryavanshi origin. 2409:40D5:5A:7F1B:B16D:653A:593A:2406 (talk) 10:16, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 15:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
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Addition to the "In popular culture" section: In the 2016 video game Civilization VI, Chandragupta is a playable leader for the Indian civilization. [1] Dankartes (talk) 04:59, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
References
What does this Jiana tradition say about Chandragupta
He 2409:40D1:1022:2A2B:B413:FAFF:FE90:2F8F (talk) 03:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
Candragupta real name
Candragupta real name Mohit atulkar (talk) 06:01, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
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