Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 19

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Archives

Archive 1 (October 2005 → E³ 2006) Archive 2 (May 24 → May 31 2006) Archive 3 (May 31 → June 6 2006) Archive 4 (June 6 → July 9 2006) Archive 5 (July 9 → August 28 2006) Archive 6 (August 28 → November 12 2006) Archive 7 (November 12 → December 9 2006) Archive 8 (December 10 2006 → March 3 2007) Archive 9 (March 3 → April 21 2007) Archive 10 (April 22 → May 17 2007) Archive 11 (May 17 → May 22 2007)

Archive

Everything has been moved to Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 11. --myselfalso 21:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Wii Optical Disc, cont'd

Games have been released for different platforms on odd media before. Final Fantasy XI for the PlayStation 2 came as a hard drive attachment. Sonic & Knuckles came out on one of those weird Genesis cartridges with another cartridge reader on top. It's 99.9% likely that the game will come out on a Wii Optical Disc, but it's not confirmed by anyone. We do not put "likely" information in articles about unreleased products, even "extremely likely" information. It may even come out on two discs, in which case the "media" indicator is also false. Not every single fact in Wikipedia must have its own source, but saying this game will come out on a Wii Optical Disc is completely unverifiable. - Chardish 21:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Have you heard of Wikipedia:Use common sense and Wikipedia:Ignore all rules? They apply here. —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 22:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Indead they do. Anubiz 22:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

• I've heard of ignore all rules, but verifiability is non-negotiable. - Chardish 01:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Let me clarify: What "ignore all rules" does not mean is that Wikipedia is anything other than an encyclopedia of verifiable facts built by a community of volunteers with a wiki. (See: Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, which is not a rule, but a definition.) - Chardish 01:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't the part about Ignore all rules be an oxymoron anyway? Taken at face value, you shouldn't follow the "Don't follow the rules" rule anyway :D And besides Wikipedia:Ignore all rules is satirical anyway, but Wikipedia:Common Sense shouldn't be a defense against verification and reliablility. Quatreryukami 02:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Where in the Don't Follow the Rules article does it say that it shouldn't be taken seriously? And it's not a rule, it's a guideline. I don't see where the big deal is. If it's coming out for the Wii, then logically it will be on Wii Optic Disk. If we head differently (yeah right) then we can change it. Joiz ^A. Shmo 02:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Heh, I picked up on that shortly before reading your post, and wrote a quick essay. Anyway, I think that "common sense" applies for most cases, but since Wikipedia must contain no speculation, I think that even "common sense" speculation requires verifiability. Drawing "logical" conclusions is original research via synthesis, which is also forbidden and non-negotiable. Also, read what I said about the game coming out on two discs - that is a very real possibility. Furthermore, if we're going to allow speculation of any kind as long as it's almost certain to be true, why not start reporting sales figures? I'd bet my life savings the game will sell at least 10,000 copies. - Chardish 02:18, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Hahahaha. Maybe we should all write an essay on Verifiblilty not having to apply to all arts rofl. Just Kidding! Great essay, btw, I give it a A+.

Now then, He has a point there in his last sentence. And I also restate the Genesis arguement at the top of the section and add my own little 2 cents: what if some new technology (Blu-Ray Wii?) comes out and they use that instead? Won't we feel pretty stupid? Lets just say undetermined for now, but in updates we'll find out more! *Drool...weekday updates....:p*Quatreryukami 02:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, if it's blu-ray, we're screwed because it wouldn't be playable. But it's pretty obvious that this is getting no where, so we should either find someone who'll be objective and have them make the decision, or just stop arguing about it. We're going around in circles.DurinsBane87 02:26, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree!(I summmon Miyamoto!) rofl. Really, I don't care either way. Can we just make a consensus? Quatreryukami 02:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Unless anyone has a strong reason why we should treat very likely possibilities as being equivalent to fact, and why doing so is necessary to improve the quality of the article, I think the speculation should be removed. - Chardish 03:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey! Let's take off the Wii Optical Disk from Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, and NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams while we're at it because those aren't confirmed either. "Final Fantasy XI for the PlayStation 2 came as a hard drive attachment." The Wii doesn't have a hard drive though "Sonic & Knuckles came out on one of those weird Genesis cartridges with another cartridge reader on top." You're comparing oranges to apples there, cartidges =/= CDs. You can't download the game obviously because the Wii Optical Disk is at least 1 GB and the Wii Flash Drive can only support up to 512 MB. Another thing, Brawl was going to be a launch title too, what does that tell you. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 07:32, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh hey! I got it! Let's remove the character section because we don't know if they're going to be in the final game. After all, they can decide at any time to remove them releaseing the final game, right? Mario is a speculation character too because we don't know if Nintendo will change their minds. </sarcasm> magiciandude (Talk) (review) 07:34, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

What kind of moron woul think that Super Smash Bros is coming out on something other then a Wii Disc? The previous Smash Bros games didn't break the mould in terms of the medium they came out on (Cartridge for N64 and GC Discs for Melee) so why should it be any different for Wii?

Yeah, ok, there's some crap about no original research. Here's a thought though. If they were going to release it on something OTHER then a Wii Disc, would it not have been revealed by now? You don't look stupid if they suddenly announce it's going to be a cartridge or something, you simply take it into your stride and say; "originally thought to be on a Wii Optical Disc like most other Wii games, is now on a <insert medium here>. The Wii takes Gamecube discs and Wii Discs as it's primary source of media. That's not going to change with what is without a doubt one of the most succesful franchises in gaming history getting a release for a new console. GOsh, i hope they take the god-awful Camera and Fixed Camera modes out. Those modes were really stupid. 195.195.15.250 07:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC) Mojanboss

nintendo will never stop to make the announcment "oh yeah, and smash bros comes on a regular wii disk" because they know we have the common sense to work it out for ourselves. until the wii has produced a game in the format other than a disk, we should assume that it is what all future games will be released as. if it's not released as a disk, we change it, it's not hard. Djchallis 07:55, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

So it is agreed, that the majority say the "Wii Optical Disk" media should stay. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 08:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Again, I reiterate: Unless anyone has a strong reason why we should treat very likely possibilities as being equivalent to fact, and why doing so is necessary to improve the quality of the article, I think the speculation should be removed. Verifiability, not truth, is the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia. - Chardish 11:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

BECAUSE ALL WII GAMES ARE ON WII DISCS. Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that Smash Bros will not be on a Wii Disc? You're talking what sounds to be more speculation then what everyone else is saying! 84.13.126.159 11:46, 23 May 2007 (UTC) Mojanboss

Can you find a reliable source that says "all Wii games are on Wii discs?" I couldn't. The bottom line is, no one can prove that this game will come out on a Wii optical disc. - Chardish 12:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

It's so obvious that nobody has bothered to say it. —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 13:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Can YOU find source that says that not all games on the Wii go on the Wii Optical Disk? Virtual Console games do not count. :) magiciandude (Talk) (review) 16:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Just the aileans in my head, but they don't speak good Japinese. Word per word "Smush bros will be on a monkey."Anubiz 16:40, 23 May 2007 (UTC) Okay, why is this conversation even happening. Let's just put it's unconfirmed if gameplay can be saved or not? Or let's put it's unknown yet if we'll be able to select our own character or the game will just pick a random character for us? (Zojo 18:19, 23 May 2007 (UTC))

Straw poll

Until we have "confirmation" that the sky is blue, let's have a straw poll to see if common sense prevails. Let's consider the result a "binding consensus" so that we don't have to deal with this again.

Support "Wii Optical Disk"

1. —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 13:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
2. --LuigiManiac 13:43, 23 May 2007 (UTC) This is common sense. What other medium would it be distributed through?
3. - --Bishop2 13:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC) If it's a Wii game, it's on a Wii Optical Disk. It's not listed as a freaking GameCube game or something.
4. - --myselfalso 14:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
5. Djchallis 14:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC) we use common sense to make sensible conclusions all the time on wikipedia, this is no different. until proven otherwise it just makes sense to assume this.
6. Anubiz Napoleons White horse.
7. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 16:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC), we need a source as much as we need to know what time the two o'clock bus leaves.
8. OBEY STARMAN 18:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC), This is obivous that it will be on the Opitical Disk.
9. Vilerocks 22:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC) Remember to use your common sense.

Oppose "Wii Optical Disk"

1. Might as well add Donkey Kong and Yoshi to the list of confirmed characters. All Wii games are released on Wii Optical Disc, right? And all Smash Bros. games have Donkey Kong and Yoshi in them. It's the exact same argument. - Chardish 21:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Other

1. Quatreryukami 14:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC) Let's just say "unconfirmed" and add this to "Lame Arguements" even though I started a lot of them. Quatreryukami 14:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
2. Agrees with Quatreryukami. 68.43.41.106 01:37, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Straw Poll Results

Not to close the polls early, and you all can feel free to vote if you have not, but I think the consensus is clear now. Therefore, it's back on the page. —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 18:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Give a due date please. Just edit the heading in the voting section with the date the vote will end.magiciandude (Talk) (review) 00:36, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Request for Comment on Wii Optical Disc

It is unverified and unverifiable that this upcoming game will be released on a Wii Optical Disc. Nonetheless, as the vast majority of Wii titles are released on Wii Optical Discs, it is fairly obvious that Super Smash Bros. Brawl will be as well. Do we remove the unverifiable information from the article, or ignore all rules and keep it?

Statements of editors previously involved in dispute

• Verifiability, not truth, is the criterion for inclusion in Wikipedia. This is especially true for articles about unreleased media, as Wikipedia is not a crystal ball and speculation of any kind is forbidden. There are a lot of assumptions we can make about this game based on other releases in the series, yet none of those assumptions are in the article - because Wikipedia articles are only for confirmed facts, not the assumptions of those writing the articles. Likelihood has nothing to do with it. - Chardish 22:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
• Soal Clamber III Anubiz 00:51, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
• Hey Chardish, have you found a game for the Wii that does NOT use the Wii Optical Disk? Virtual Console games do not count. magiciandude (Talk) Chardish, don't tell other people what they can or cannont do. This is Wikipedia, the Free Online Encyclopedia that ANYONE can edit. No one has to be involved in that silly arguement of yours that to make an opinion or statement. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 01:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
  • The goal of RfC is to obtain the opinions of third parties, not to elicit ad hominem attacks. Be civil. - Chardish 01:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
  • I have moved your comment to the appropriate section, as you are not a third party. - Chardish 01:30, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes I know, but no one has to be excluded from making an comment. While you're at it, are you ever going to answer my question of "Does any Wii game NOT use the Wii Optical Disk besides Virtual Console games"? magiciandude (Talk) (review) 01:33, 24 May 2007 (UTC) Comments from third parties

Musician List

I think it is kind of odd that they have Sega musicians on the list such as Tomoko Sasaki who is well known for the Sonic franchise. Should we add this to the bit about Sonic? OBEY STARMAN 22:18, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

No, because it's speculation. — Malcolm^{Use the schwartz!} 22:24, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I thought we weren't obeying the rules anymore? Fred Fredbuger 22:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The point of WP:IAR above was that overuse of WP:V would hinder us from improving the encyclopedia there. We all know it's going to be on a Wii Optical Disk, but they haven't said so officially. Speculation about characters, on the other hand, is probably best left out-- we're not as sure about which characters as we are about the disk format. however, I could understand a table of music artists, the games they're most known for, and one or two characters that may imply. —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 23:25, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

I know that it is speculation, but it should be notable that people from Sega and Capcom are working on this game as well.OBEY STARMAN 22:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Capcom who might that mean? Yes I agree that it's notable. Anubiz 22:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Masato Kouda from Capcom is working on it and apparently he is best known for his works with Monster Hunter and Devil May Cry according to the list. OBEY STARMAN 22:54, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Seems note-able, but not that important --User:Entei-Anubis

Agreed what I meant, what does the presence of Capcom mean in terms of third-party characters? Anubiz 23:37, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Uncailled for. Anubiz 00:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I added it under Music instead. OBEY STARMAN 00:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Anubiz 01:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Should we add the composer list to the page with their names linking to their page and the game they composed music linked to that page. Albeit the list is long maybe it could be a 4 column table (Composer|Game|Composer|Game). Only reason I ask is cause they have an important role in the game not as much as Sakurai but still. Sora3087 08:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think so, the list is too long, and the information really isn't all that important, at least not yet. we don't have a list of every programmer for the game either. DurinsBane87 08:33, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Stage Picture

i know someone already suggested this in the archive, but I think we need a picture from the newer site for the Stages section instead of the prototype from the trailer. It would look better, and be more in tune to what the game will end up looking like.Tuesday42 00:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Anubiz 01:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed the Halberd prototype image, and replaced it with the updated Battlefield image for now. OBEY STARMAN 17:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I like it. Anubiz 17:40, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I chose the one without characters. ^_^ OBEY STARMAN 17:45, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

characters from melee "may" not return

I'd make the change myself, but I know it will be inevitably controversial, what with everyone so tense about their favorite Melee character's odds of making it in. The actual translation of Sakurai's comment says explicitly that some characters will definately be removed. There is no "may" about it. Sorry. 75.153.231.20 05:37, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

share proof or it'll be tossed into the "Speculation and Rumors" box. FyreNWater 07:44, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I definitely remember whatsisname (I can never remember Japanese names) saying that certain Melee characters may not return. I always assumed he meant Dr. Mario, Roy (NOT ROY! GET RID OF MARTH!) and Young Link. COnsidering these guys are basically clones. Almost down to their appearances. Until he's said which ones though, it's not right to say that until it's been made official. It may turn out that all the characters remain. 195.195.15.250 07:49, 23 May 2007 (UTC) Mojanboss

I thought he said this last May on Dojo? OBEY STARMAN 11:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, but the original cast is in (damn you Jigglypuff!!!) Dark Ermac 11:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

To my knowledge Pichu was only put into the game because it's cute, so if anybody is not returning it might be Pichu. Anubiz 14:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Where'd you hear that? Frankly, I think clones were put into Melee because they were so easy and quick to program. It makes sense that clones of existing characters may appear again, and it makes sense that some of the SAME clones may NOT appear because they've been done, but the theory that a character won't appear because their only reason for existing is "cuteness" sounds like something you just kinda came up with. --Bishop2 14:27, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Scorry, I didn't know you were such a Pichu fan. Anyway you do make a good point clones are quick and easy to make though the results might not be the best sort of like palette swaps. Anubiz 14:31, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a Pichu fan. Nobody's a Pichu fan. But we can't assume why characters make it into the game or don't, and therefore we can't assume who will or won't be in this game. Which obivously means we can't go onto the article and edit it to say "Well, Pichu is probably unlikely to show up." I mean, we can't back that up. On the other hand, if you can back up Pichu being included only because he's cute with an interview quote or something, it might be an interested thing to add to the Melee article, or at least consider adding. --Bishop2 15:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I can't it's just popular opinion around here, that that is applied Peachey was included. By around here I mean in reality. Anubiz 15:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Site is up up and running

The site is there again, although not much new info yet. You guys with actual Wikipedia accounts might want to remove the bit about it being offline though.

It might be awhile befoure we get somthig new. Anubiz 12:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

If I had to speculate, I'd say give it another one to two weeks. The week offline was probably spent rebuilding the site from scratch, so this second week will be spent rewriting the original info from before. There are new screenshots, so it isn't completely bad. - Zero1328 _Talk? 13:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

It does contain the first stage, though. Battlefield can now be added to the article. The site is also being updated every day with new info, so that's a plus. --Ultima 17:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Capcom character

Some body on this page mention that Capcom is working with brawl does that give us any indication on third-party characters? And if it is from Capcom who are likely candidates?

Sorry if this sounds like a fourm, I was not sure how to word this. Anubiz 15:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

One of the composers of music in some of the Capcom games is working on the music in Brawl. That's all we know at this time. Lots of musicians from lots of gaming companies are helping with the music. Any connections between this and the inclusions of third-party characters would be purely speculation at this time. Joiz ^A. Shmo 15:58, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

OK scorry. Anubiz 16:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

The list of musicians

Should there be a list of the composers that are contributing to Brawl, here or in a seperate article? 165.20.104.30 16:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Neither, instead, we should have a category for it called Category:Super Smash Bros. musicians, but even then I still don't think it'll be worth it. magiciandude (Talk) (review) 16:56, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Any game has musicians, and I doubt those game articles have such lists. Because there's 36 musicians listed there, we're better off linking to that. Erik Jensen ^{(Appreciate|Laugh At)} 17:01, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I just thought there should be something, as normally a game has only a couple of composers working on it. 36 composers contributing to one game is unprecedented. 165.20.104.30 22:23, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Resource Update

Most of the sources that link to Brawl's website are currently gone due to the update. Should we remove these sources or find an archive verison? OBEY STARMAN 17:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Until they're reposted, we could use archive.org and cite them that way... —Disavian (^talk/_contribs) 17:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Lucario

It says Lucario in super smash bros. Figheters. So is it true? Anubiz 17:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Please cite the source, it seems like speculation to me. OBEY STARMAN 17:51, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Look here Lucario it also says so here. Catgirls.com

Do you really expect me to listen to your vandalism? Lucario is not confirmed. Just hold your horses. OBEY STARMAN 17:57, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Scorry, did I at least do it right? Anubiz 18:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Just wait a few days, they are revealing stuff every weekday. He might appear. ^_^. OBEY STARMAN 18:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

A few days? I asked if some brawl lineup that I made up was the real one on Yahoo answers. Including Lucario. We probably won't know anything new before it's resolved. For a copy of the list see my sandbox. Anubiz 20:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Anyone can post on Yahoo answers, it was propably the most wanted list at Smashboards.com, not sponsered by nintendo. OBEY STARMAN 21:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

No, it is a list of who I want in Brawl. Anubiz 21:04, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

How can that help us? It can't. -Sukecchi 21:11, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I know, I was traying to say we will not get new info for awile without out right saying it. But is it a good line up? Anubiz 21:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if it's a good line up. Discussion about it doesn't belong here. -Sukecchi 21:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay. Anubiz 21:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

As much as Lucario, Blaziken, and a lot of other Fighting-type Pokémon would be really awesome, we can't know for sure. --Luigifan 21:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

True. Do you mean that you want lots of Fighting Pokémon in the game? I saw someware that only dule Fighting types will be aloued. Anubiz 22:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

This isn't the place for this discussion. Take it to a forum or your talk pages.DurinsBane87 22:48, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I thught it was dorped untill Lugifan posted. Anubiz 22:53, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Deletions

• Category:Super Smash Bros. fighters has been listed for deletion here.

• {{Super Smash Bros. series playable characters}} has been listed for deletion here.

--myselfalso 18:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Both are bad ideas! Anubiz 18:20, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Why? They have been used since the SSBM page existed. OBEY STARMAN 18:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

A user nominated the template for deletion. I nominated the category for deletion because a growing consensus suggested deleting the category instead of the template. --myselfalso 18:29, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, I'd suggest making your opinions known on both pages. --myselfalso 18:30, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

May 23 update

Is there anything to put in the article that was released today? (Zojo 18:35, 23 May 2007 (UTC))

No because all we got were Mario and Link. Anubiz 18:40, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

"Meta Knight (メタナイト, Meta Naito?) is a recurring enemy of the Kirby series..."

Enemy?! Where did you get that? MK's always been a good guy.

Kirby's Adventure - Gave you candy in the middle of levels Amazing Mirror - Attempted to save Mirror World,(SPOILER AHEAD) let Kirby use Galaxia. Squeak Squad - (SPOILER AHEAD) stole the Squeak's chest to avoid the Dark Nebula being released.

Also (this may not apply, since it's the games we're talking about), but just watch the anime. MK is definetly not a villain. There was the whole world domination/killing Kirby thing, but... FOR THE MOST PART, it's clear that he's a good guy. XD --Alice2 22:00, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Holy not a forum Batman... What does this have to do with the article? I don't see this discussion or section as necessary or even appropriate in this talk page. (Poweroverwhelming 22:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC))

The game was made after the Bio, rember? Anubiz 22:15, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, you guys who just do nothing but say "this is not a forum" or "that's speculation" get on my nerves. This guy questioned whether Metaknight should be listed as a villian or not in the ARTICLE. Honestly, if there's actually a lot of people protesting Metaknight being classified as a villian, we should just wait for Metaknight's new bio to appear on the updated site and go from there. (Zojo 22:17, 23 May 2007 (UTC))

Developer (Again)

It says on the Smashbros page on gamespot the game is by nindendo and sora. http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/ --Air Head 01:06, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I would like to recommend someone add more to the description of Battlefield. Something like as follows:

...It is not confirmed if this is based on real life time or game time, yet the preliminary trailer depicts a very quick cycling daytime. The time is measured by a sundial in the back center of the field. Many ruins of Roman Architecture can be viewed in the background as well. The floor seems to glow with energy, as does the bottom, which supposedly keeps the battlefield in the air.

Nuparu 01:42, 24 May 2007 (UTC)Nuparu