User talk:BrownHairedGirl

05:16 Saturday 13 July 2024 Please click here to leave a new message for me (BrownHairedGirl) Note: if you leave a new message for me on this page, I will reply on this page unless you ask me to reply somewhere else. If you are replying to an existing message, please remember to: sign your comments, by placing ~~~~ at the end of the comments (see WP:SIG) indent your comment by placing a colon before the start of the first line (add an extra colon if you are relying to a reply)	Archives January 2006 – August 2006 August 2006 – November 2006 October 2006 –January 2007 January 2007 –March 2007 March 2007 – April 2007 April 2007 — May 2007 June 2007 —
Wikipedia Admin I have been an administrator since May 2006. Administrators have access to a few technical features which help with maintenance. I regard admin powers as a privilege to be used sparingly and judiciously, but if you require the assistance of an admin, please feel free to leave a message on my talk page. If you want admin help, please do try to explain clearly what you want done, and why, and please do remember to include any relevant links or diffs. I'll try to either help you myself or direct you to a more experienced person if appropriate.

edit to user categories for discussion

Someone suggested that I may haver mistaken the categories involved there. Thanks for fixing it. --Tony Sidaway 23:38, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

• Even if you had been right about the categories involved, it was entirely wrong to simply delete the discussions :( The appropriate step would be ask for speedy closure. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:41, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Pointless bureaucracy. Much better to close a mistaken nomination by deletion. On examination moreover I don't believe I now agree that it was a correct nomination at all, but for reasons other than those I acted upon. --Tony Sidaway 12:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

It is not bureaucracy, pointless or otherwise. It is a matter of maintaining a record of the community's discussions on the categories and allowing others to review your actions. Please do not delete any further XfDs, or I will treat it as vandalism. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:21, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

having a wikipedia page written

Hi there! I am from Australia and I'm trying to get a wikpedia page written about myself. I am a TV personality who also appears in all other forms of media including my website www.getmega.com . Ive been Ms Megabyte for over 9 years - helping the people of Australia to be less frustrated with their computers. I have a best selling book too.

I am a friend of Max Walker, which is how I came to find your name - I believe you've edited his page.

I want to know if there's anyone that writes wikipedia pages on a contract basis. I know that the pages still must be accepted and must meet certain criteria, but I want to pay someone to do the copywriting for me.. someone who already knows the ins and outs of wikipedia and getting a page accepted.

can you help?

thankyou... Yvonne. yvonne@getmega.com

How do I find out if someone has answered this question!?

Please do not close any more discussions in which you participated in any way

Your latest comments on my talk page confirm that it is quite right to have no confidence in your impartiality. You say that you did not participate in the debate which you closed, but what you did was to speedy close a debate on the grounds of a previous discussion on the same topic in which you did participate! Haddiscoe 23:36, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Haddiscoe as BHG has already pointed out to you, she in no way participated in the discussion. Closing a discussion with a review of what has been said is in no way participating in it. BHG has given you two options to take if you wish to contest the decision she took. That is the correct way to proceed, rather than the course you are following at the moment. I rather think you should re-read what was written that apologise to Brownhairedgirl for the attacks you have made on her, which have been rather un-warranted to say the least. Galloglass 01:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Haddiscoe, I would have been happy to discuss the decision, but you have rejected every offer I have made to you to discuss it politely, and your latest reply is abusive again. I have left a note on your talk page about action taken. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:55, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Israeli settlements categories

Hello. I've seen you do a lot of stuff with categories, so I wondered if you could come and give an opinion here?

For background, we are having a discussion on categorisation of Israeli settlements and Israeli local/regional councils in the West Bank. Currently some of them also appear in categories such as "Villages in Israel" or "Regional Councils in Israel" and I have suggested it be changed.

I'd welcome your input as an outsider. Thanks, Number 57

Lord Lieutenants category

I started populating it, but noticed that there are already three sub-categories under Category:Lord Lieutenancies of England that need to be recategorized and/or renamed: Category:Lords Lieutenant of Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, and Devon. I leave this to your CfD expertise. Choess 15:10, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I hate to say this now, but I think "Lord Lieutenants" is preferable to "Lords Lieutenant" as a plural. See [1] for part of a discussion. I admit that this is true only from a proscriptive standpoint. Choess 17:06, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear, I should have followed up on your earlier message before getting to work on making all the new categories. Sorry :(

Anyway, do you think they should be renamed? If so, I can do a speedy on them as as creator. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

If it's not too much trouble to do so (although the first 3 categories already existed, so I don't know if they're speediable), I do think it's preferable to rename them, yes. Thank you. Let me know if you'd like me to handle some of the CfDing. (I'm working through a bunch of DLs right now, actually.) Choess 17:53, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll handle the process. I'm reasonably familar with CfD, and in any case I have realised that all of these are speediable under WP:CFD#Speedy_renaming_and_speedy_merging-No.3, so I'll speedy them later tonight. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

All now tagged and listed at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy#Add_requests_for_speedy_renaming_here. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:00, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

For some reason, the link I gave above (to what should be a full-view book) is coming up snippet view, but I've tried to justify the superiority of this particular plural at CfD. I'll try and keep an eye on it. Choess 02:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

CfD

I don't know if you saw this one: Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_11#Category:Daughters_of_marquesses. I hope you have recovered from post-primate blues, or whatever has been keeping you away from CfD. Johnbod 02:39, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

dab notices

I noticed you added a disambiguation tag to the top of Peter B. Bennett. It's been my understanding that these notices are only for pages whose exact titles might be ambiguous, to act as a search aid. It doesn't seem likely that someone looking for another Peter Bennett would accidentally find themselves on the article Peter B. Bennett, middle initial included, thus, the notice is unnecessary clutter, and I have removed it accordingly. If there is a reason for including such a notice which I'm not aware of, then disregard this message. Sorry to be such a nitpicky OCD case. Thanks, — Swpb ^{talk contribs} 09:33, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. Yes, there is a reason: see a fuller explanation at Wikipedia talk:Hatnotes#The_case_for_hatnotes, but briefly in this case, someone looking for a Peter Bennett may not know the middle initial of the person involved, and may easily end up on the wrong page. The hatnote takes very little screenspace, and is short enough to take little mental bandwidth, and is an invaluable help to a reader or editor who ends up on the wrong page. So I have restored it. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:11, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I came here because you added a hatnote to Betty Williams (politician) which I've removed. Please don't add these to all articles against the existing consensus until you get Wikipedia:Hatnotes#Disambiguating article names that are not ambiguous altered through consensus. You are proposing a major change in the guidelines and a stylistic thing we need to be consistent about in order to not cause confusion (the exact reason the Manual of Style, which includes the relevant guideline, was created). You haven't explained a specific reason for the articles you have done this on (the reason you give above isn't true—Peter Bennett includes a lot more than "middle initials"), so I'm assuming you are planning to do this to all articles with any kind of disambiguator (or initial or whatever) in their titles, without exception, which is what I object too; specific exceptions are all well and good per WP:IAR etc.

I've also read Wikipedia talk:Hatnotes#The_case_for_hatnotes and am not really persuaded by your arguments for the change, which feel a little contrived to me. The one that I thought was valid (though I don't know if it is true), if I understood it correctly, centered around optimising the site for Google searches (in cases where an article has a much higher ranking than other similarly named articles). However, IMO, Wikipedians should not be in the business of search engine optimisation. Wikipedia is primarily a long-term project to create an encyclopedia that aims to be a compendium of all human knowledge that will be published on lots of media and hopefully outlive the Web; rather than a website which aims to help people find our articles easily on Google through temporary kludges. I also don't think it would be possible to find whether the premise of this argument is actually true (without developers wasting lots of time doing some very clever stuff with linking up entries in the server logs).

You also don't seem to have addressed the very obvious argument for the status quo that disambiguating things that aren't ambiguous is, by definition, unnecessary, and clearly causes confusion (and takes up the time of readers) who assume that the article title they've asked for is ambiguous (as it is disambiguated) and so follow the link—something I, as an experienced user of this site, have done.

If there really is a reason to do this, I suggest that, after reaching consensus on it, you create a new template that explains that the article name isn't ambiguous (but here is a link to the disambiguation page anyway if you are looking for other people/things named whatever). I would also suggest that if you have to do this, it shouldn't be a hatnote (which, after much discussion in the early years of Wikipedia, it was decided should only be used for disambiguation), that is, the first thing people see on the page; but, instead, it could be something included further down the page, possibly in the see also section.

Also, assuming you are planning on going round doing this to lots of articles, I would suggest that unilaterally making the changes before anyone has had time to discuss your proposal will not encourage other editors to support it. If most editors agree with you, the policy should be changed pretty soon. Otherwise you'll end up just wasting time edit warring with those who support the status quo when you could be giving detailed arguments for the change.

Sorry if this sounds like a bit of a rant :-)

Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley _{talk contrib} 16:07, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

A quick reply for now:

1. Adding a link which says "For other people called X, see x (disambiguation)" does not necessarily imply that the article title is confusing or that it is ambiguous. It is just a help to people who may have landed up on the wrong article, because ambiguity is a subjective thing (it depends on what the reader is looking for)
2. You seem to have completely misunderstand my point about Google. I have no interest in search-engine optimisation (except that as a practice, I tend to deplore it): my point is simply that someone who reaches a wikipedia page through a search engine may not have found the precise article they were looking for, and that it helps the reader to provide a short link to other articles on people of similar names.

All I am doing here is making things easier for readers who may have found the wrong page. The point you overlook is that most human names are intrinsically ambiguous: very few combinations of first and second names have been held by only one person, and even when qualified by a career or geographical attribute (e.g. "Sam Smith (politician)"), there are two further problems:

• There may be more than one person who fits the definition provided by the disambiguator (e.g. several politicians of that name, some of whom were only involved in a minor way in politics)
• the reader may be aware of the individual only through another aspect of their career rather than by the one in the article title: e.g. although there is only one Max Muspratt on wikipedia so far he could if needed be legitimately disambiguated as Max Muspratt (chemist) or as Max Muspratt (politician). Either disambiguator is likely to lead some readers in the wrong direction, so why not help them out?

Now to the specific examples:

1. Peter B. Bennett is one four Peter Bennetts listed at Peter Bennett (disambiguation). One of the others is an easily-confused Peter F. B. Bennett, and the two others have no middle initial specified. It is quite likely that some readers will end up at the wrong article, so why not help them out with a small an unobtrusive hatnote?
2. Of three Betty Williams listed at Betty Williams (disambiguation), one is the Labour MP Betty Williams (politician), but another is Betty Williams (nobel laureate), whose role was deeply political (though not in party sense): her work was to try to bring an end to the violent political conflict in Northern Ireland. Can you really guarantee that no reader looking for her could reasonably think that Betty Williams (politician) might not be title of the article she was looking for?

This whole exercise of creating an encyclopedia is about helping the reader, and the hatnotes are a small and unobtrusive device to assist that. WP:HATNOTE is a guideline not a policy, and per WP:GUIDE "Guidelines are not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception". It is common sense to use hatnotes where they may help some readers, and to avoid them when they will no (such as in the example at Wikipedia:Hatnotes#Disambiguating article names that are not ambiguous).--BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)

Personally I'd think that Peter B. Bennett doesn't lend itself to obvious disambiguation (like snipping (actor) from the end) and to be honest I am unsure we can assume people will manipulate URLs anyway. I have replied to your thoughts on this with some more of my own highlighting shaky assumptions and the way hatnotes can improve usability and reduce confusion. (Emperor 13:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC))

uncontested by-elections

I've deleted a reference to a 1912 Leominster by-election, in an infobox. No poll was ever held as it was uncontested. Not a common thing now, of course but then it was different. I had a look to see if there was any precedent to go by and I couldn't find one. Do you think an uncontested by-election is worth a page? My feeling is no, but others might have a different view. Rbreen 16:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Yes, you're right: uncontested by-elections used to be reasonably common, but the last one was the Hemsworth by-election, 1946. That's not the only such article: see Category:Unopposed by-elections to the Parliament of the United Kingdom for lots more. Some of them might usefully be merged (though I'd be reluctant to do so for now), but my inclination is to start from the presumption that since 1885 a Parliamentary seat changing hands is a notable event (those in the last few centuries certainly meet WP:N). In the case of an unopposed by-election, the question I would like answered is why it was unopposed: because it was a safe seat, or because of an electoral pact? In the context of an infobox or a succession box, that is best done by having something for the article to link to. It's a pity in that case that there is no such article yet, but I think it's better to keep the link until there is, so I have reinstated the link in Sir James Rankin, 1st Baronet. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I had no idea there were so many articles on unopposed by-elections! My thinking was that any such article would inevitably be short (on reflection, that doesn't mean it's a bad article) and not additionally informative. However, on balance, especially as some articles will contain informative detail, it probably makes sense to have such an article as a rule. I will see if I can find out what the case was in Leominster: my guess is a safe seat, although six years earlier the majority was just 28 votes. Thanks for your response. Rbreen 20:14, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Change requested to the protected Template:S-par

Please make the change to {{s-par}} described here. Thanks. --Tim4christ17 ^talk 03:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Hello, BrownHairedGirl. I would like to ask you to do a couple of things concerning s-par apart from the above requested change:

• Put the Canadian legislatures in alphabetic order (you can find that in the draft /Guidelines page as well); I don't think the geographical order will work.
• Remove the la parameter, which is overly general, per discussion here.
• Answer my message higher in this page.

Thank you for your time. Nice to see you back. Waltham, The Duke of 22:02, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Your absence from the succession box world has been long, BrownHairedGirl, and there are some issues that are pending resolution; your presence in the SBS talk page would be most desirable and helpful.

In any case, two of the issues I have listed above have been resolved: a) there is a trend to create separate documentation pages for the most imporant templates and their appearance can be changed without help by an administrator, as they are not protected; b) the la parameter has been removed from s-par (see talk page).

However, there is still the outstanding case of the years you have added to the s-par headers for the English and British Parliaments. Given your lack of comment, I have taken the matter to the project to decide and we are close to removing the dates (four supporting the motion, none opposing it). The discussion is taking place here, in case you would like to comment. Waltham, The Duke of 09:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

As a conscientious editor ...

As a conscientious editor concerned to improve Wikipedia, you might like to signify your assent to participate in Community Enforced Mediation by signing up Here...Gaimhreadhan^{(kiwiexile at DMOZ)} • 11:19, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Why John Wyndham

Why make this link changes to John Wyndham to John Wyndham (writer) when the latter is only a redirect, the propoer link should be to John Wyndham. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 13:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Because in the course of disambiguating the various Wyndhams, I had moved the article to John Wyndham (writer), before I realised that was a bad idea (there are far too many links to the writer), so I moved it back. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

John Wyndham

Your changes from John Wyndham to John Wyndham (writer) are unnecessary , since the latter is a redirect to the former. No need to do any more of these. PatGallacher 21:07, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Umm, did you see the discussion above, at Why John Wyndham? They were necessary after I had moved John Wyndham, but I soon realised that this was a bad idea, so I moved the article on the writer back to John Wyndham. Naturally, I did not change any further links after moving the article back again. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:20, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		On your user page, you state how you like to stay above 99% with your edit summary usage. This star is to commend you for your excellent work in maintaining that percentage. :) Acalamari 17:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

• Thank you!!!! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

• You're welcome! Acalamari 18:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

conscientious editors

Is this conscientious editors concerned to improve Wikipedia[2]. I have not had any problems with you, but I have with the rest of the conscientious editors. --Domer48 19:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I signed up in good faith, but maybe I ought to take another look. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:13, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

All conscientious editors concerned to improve Wikipedia are welcome. From a strictly personal viewpoint, I don't think it should be regarded as a team game but rather as an attempt to reduce stress and improve our encyclopaedia. I hope you talk over any misgivings with others whose opinion you trust and value, BrownHairedGirl and, of course, you might like to signify your assent to participate in Community Enforced Mediation by signing up Here Domer48.

Please forgive the impertinence of commenting again on your talk page, BrownHairedGirl ...Gaimhreadhan • 20:24, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

MP dabbing

Your point about MP as an insufficient DAB is taken on my part... While I'm not a fan of date ranges as disambiguators in bio titles, I'm not following your edits and I don't have any plans to start, so I'll probably not even notice if you are doing it... I only noticed that one because I was patrolling new pages at the time. Knowing that you (and possibly others) are setting up new pages like this I'll avoid doing moves on anything of that sort that pops up on my newpage ticker. Again, sorry if I caused you stress. Regards,--Isotope23 ^talk 20:21, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Sources

Sorry about that, was talking on the phone while I was adding them and forgot. Sorted now. Galloglass 22:34, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

First Contribution to Wikipedia - Adding Bibliography to Allen Upward

Hello,

I am a decendent of Allen Upward (his nephew is my grandfather). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Upward

I have recently inhereted my grandfathers collection of Allen Upwards books - most of them signed first editions given to my great grandfather at the time of their first publication by Allen Upward.

I would like to add this detail to the Allen Upward page on Wikipedia...but am concerned this may break contribution rules because I am related.

Since you have contributed / edited this page I wondered if I should collaborate with you on this update?

Thanks for the help...sorry this is such a newbe question...

antony@theUpwards.net

Antony Upward 65.94.56.212 22:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Protection of Fatimah

Hi. Do you mind protecting this article? The 'Death' section is under constant vandalism by those angered by it. Thanks. ^Klak_Sonn^Talk 16:28, 25 July 2007 (UTC) Thanks a lot. ^Klak_Sonn^Talk 16:56, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I hadn't realised that the recent protection afforded to Fatimah was in response to a request from User:Klaksonn (after he made a 3RR violating POV revert). Nevertheless, thank you for the initiative in setting up the sandbox. I have started to re-write the article from scholarly sources and had reverted the article to the NPOV version. However, Klaksonn's first task on returning from his block was to revert the article to his POV version citing no consensus. But if you look at the comments on the talk page (where Klaksonn is clearly absent), two other editors agreed with my edits. I would appreciate it if you could prompt Klaksonn to engage in dialogue and revert the article to the version you believe meets WP:NPOV. Thanks. → AA ^(talk) — 08:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid that I have no expertise on the subject (in fact I know nothing about it at all!), so I don't want to make any judgement on content. However, I welcome the fact that you and other editors are trying to discuss the article, and I will urge Klaksonn to engage with that discussion. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your objectivity. → AA ^(talk) — 08:53, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I wish you all luck in sorting this out. I know that it can be difficult when an editor with strong views appears to be unfamiliar with consensus-seeking processes, but there is no alternative to persevering. May I suggest that it would also be a good idea for you to post a msg to Klaksonn stressing your willingness to seek a consensus? When there has been a dispute such as this one, it can be very helpful to try to focus on re-establishing goodwill and stressing that NPOV has been achieved in many other articles on controversial subjects. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you again for your advice. I have been considering this myself (in exactly those terms) and will show my willingness in this respect. I hope to get this article to GA status. Maybe then, I could prompt you to have a read and gauge your opinion on the subject matter also as you mentioned you weren't familiar with it :) Thanks again for your time. → AA ^(talk) — 09:34, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi again, I have now completed the overhaul of the article and would like to request it be moved to the mainspace (with a history merge). Would also like to invite you to review the article and leave any comments on the talk page. Many thanks. → AA ^(talk) — 08:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

See Talk:Fatimah#Consensus_to_move_sandbox_to_mainspace.3F. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:02, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi again. Just wanted to get your opinion on this issue. As you can see from the responses to your request, everyone except Klaksonn supports the move and Klaksonn's arguments are to wait until more Shia editors come and add their POV. He himself has not made any attempts to refute or edit any of the material. In fact, looking at his recent contributions, on the various articles that he has been editing, it has mostly been reverting other editors contributions with summaries borderlining on personal attacks (which he has been admonished for previously at WP:AN/I). I have attempted to smooth things over and get a dialogue going to hear out his specific objections on the article which has not been fruitful (see [3], [4], [5] and [6]). I would appreciate your thoughts on this as I am reluctant to work on the article any further in the sandbox since I do not know what objections Klaksonn has and I don't want to waste my time on it and later discover he raises a valid objection for which a rewrite is required. I would seriously like to get this article to GA and other editors are willing to assist in this task and if the sandbox version can be moved to mainspace, it may spark discussion that is not currently forthcoming (as the consensus is that the rewrite is a better starting point to move the article forward). Apologies for the length of this, but as you've been involved as a 3rd-party, your input is greatly appreciated and I don't want to take it to ANI at the moment but give Klaksonn further opportunities to constructively participate in the discussions. Thanks. → AA ^(talk) — 10:16, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your note: see my conclusions at Talk:Fatimah#Conclusions_from_the_discussion.

I hope that you and other editors will continue to try to engage {Klaksonn in discussion about outstanding issues, even if that has been unsuccessful so far. At this point, further reverts by Klaksonn without prior consensus-seeking discussion would probably amount to disruptive editing or tendentious editing … but hopefully, everyone's concerns can all be addressed amicably by discussion. Well done to all involved in this improvement drive! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:43, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you once again for your participation on this article. I will continue to attempt to discuss Klaksonn's concerns and hope that now it's in mainspace, he will engage in the discussions. Regards. → AA ^(talk) — 12:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Samuel Molyneux

Thanks for the correction. JoshuaZ 16:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

By-elections to the 37th UK Parliament

I created {{By-elections to the 37th UK Parliament}} a few days ago, but I held off adding it to articles, as it looks very long. I've been considering splitting it in two (36-39; 40-45) or even three (36-38; 39-41; 42-45) - purely to reduce its length. As you created many of the other templates in the series, I'd be interested to hear whether you think this is a good idea. Warofdreams talk 03:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

discussion moved to Category talk:United Kingdom by-election templates. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Award

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For your endless high quality efforts on UK constituencies! Jza84 22:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Every UK constituency article I check, you've had a huge role in moving it forwards, and I thought it only appropriate to grant you the above award! Please keep up the great work! Jza84 22:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Baronets in Parliament

You may like to check out Sir Frederick Martin Williams, 2nd Baronet. Best wishes Vernon White - T A L K . . . to me. 23:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It's an article I created (albeit as a very stubby stub), so pls forgive me for being unclear about why you pointed it out to me. Is there a problem with it? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

The Truro and St Austell (UK Parliament constituency) article could do with the predecessor and successor info in the F.M. Williams article (I have not mastered tables, yet). I'll put "of Tregullow" in the article, as well as the table, as there are a number of confusing Williams Baronetcies(I see from its History that you know this one). There are also a lot of "William Williams" people around, including some confused baronets. I will indicate that F.M.Williams was the son of William, of the Williams family of Caerhays and Burncoose. Hope this is O.K. ===Vernon White - T A L K . . . to me. 14:56, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Historic constituencies and counties

Discussion moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies#Historic_constituencies_and_counties --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:39, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

The Editor's Barnstar

		The Editor's Barnstar
		I noticed that your edits were impressive and so I've decided to award you this Editor's Barnstar for your great work on various biographies! Wikidudeman (talk) 08:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

John Kent

Hi, this would indicate otherwise: John_Kent_(disambiguation). If there are other John Kent's, they should be added there. -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:Earl Andrew#John_Kent.2C_Newfoundland_premier. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:07, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't normally check the edit histories under those circumstances. Please accept my apologies. -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:08, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't we have bots to do all that? :) -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty to bypass all the redirects. -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:30, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

One shouldn't use someone's title as a disambiguation unless absolutely necessary. We normally use their profession instead. It's the common standard on Wikipedia, from what I've seen. -- Earl Andrew - talk 20:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

We don't disambiguate on Wikipedia based on how "snappy" the disambiguation title is. -- Earl Andrew - talk 21:10, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't mean "snappy" -- Earl Andrew - talk 22:07, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

John Cotton

Hi, I saw that you moved John Cotton to John Cotton (puritan) and added various Sir John Cottons to the former page. May I suggest we move John Cotton back as the primary, and add John Cotton (disambiguation) page for all of them? It seems that the puritan is the most historically important and the most linked to. --Flex (talk/contribs) 00:59, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. I see your point, but I may I explain why I think that's a bad idea?

I probably should have proceeded straight away to write at least stub articles on the various John Cotton baronets, but as you'll see from the list, many of them were long-serving Members of Parliament, often representing several constituencies, as well as being powerful local gentry families: they were not major historical figures, but they were significant and notable players in the history of their times.

As you'll see from the list, disambiguation of them is complicated: for example Sir John Cotton, 3rd Baronet refers to two different people, from different baronetcies. The work that is currently underway both on baronets and on Members of Parliament involves at the bare minimum, historical lists of Members of Parliament for the various constituencies (see for example Cambridgeshire constituency) and stub articles on the MPs, with succession boxes ... which are complicated work in cases where there are so many similarly-named people.

Disambiguating all those hundreds of cross-links is important if we are to accurately record the parliamentary history, and it's made more complicated than it might appear by the fact that many of these people held very similar offices before they held their titles, and that there were often cases where younger sons or cousins of the baronets (though none listed so far in that dab page) were also office-holders.

Disambiguating this lot is much much easier if John Cotton is a dab page: that way, every link to the bare title is problematised, and can be checked and corrected so that ideally there are no incoming links to the dab page. If John Cotton is an article in itself, then every link needs to be checked very time it is disambiguated, which is time-consuming and difficult, and it precludes using WP:POPUPS for disambiguation, which is a huge time-saver. At a quick tally, I estimate that the parliamentary history alone will create over 150 links to the various John Cotton baronets, compared with 45 article-space links to the puritan.

I'll create those articles within the next two weeks; may I ask you to hold off and take a look again when that is done? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 08:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

So are you suggesting that we leave the dab page as is only temporarily to ease the creation of your various articles, and then change it over to the scheme I suggested when complete? If so, I'm fine with that. If, however, you're suggesting that the dab should remain as is permanently, let's re-evaluate when your work is complete (or close to it) -- my current inclination is still that this page should be similar to, say, Jonathan Edwards as far as dabs go. --Flex (talk/contribs) 13:36, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I was actually suggesting that the dab page should probably permanently located at John Cotton.

I'm not doctrinaire about this, but I start from the presumption that the aim is to help the reader get as easily as possible to the article they are looking for, and that the first priority in achieving that is to ensure that all links point where they are intended to point.

So unless one article is more significant than all the others combined (as with, say, Brian Wilson), that is most likely to be achieved by having the dab page at the main title. Edwards shows the limitations of the other approach: in a quick scan of the 300 or so incoming links, I saw at least 20 where I didn't even have to open the articles to see that they were misdirected links ... and because Edwards isn't a dab page I couldn't easily fix them using popups, so I didn't bother.

I think rating the relative importance of people can be a hazardous business, because importance depends so much on perspective. To an apolitical Australian with no interest in hereditary titles, the Cotton baronets may be about as irrelevant as you could get, whereas for a historian of East Anglia, they would be highly notable, and likewise to those interested in the history of museums; to someone like me with no interest in sport, Jonathan Edwards (athlete) may be more significant than the theologian. Of course, in a paper encyclopedia, such judgements do need to be made, but Wikipedia is not paper when it comes to disambiguation I prefer not to prioritise any one article unless it is considerably more notable than all the other combined.

Anyway, let's review it once the other articles are in place. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok. --Flex (talk/contribs) 15:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Shipley, 1906

Yes Illingworth was unopposed in 1906. Craig gives the reason why Flannery didn't stand, something to do with the nomination I believe. I don't have that volume handy at the moment or I'd check but Craig does give a full explanation. Ask Gary I think he has the appropriate edition.

Btw the Shipley layout is something of an 'experiment' by which I was trying to reconcile the different ideas of what approach we should use generally. Galloglass 01:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Living people

You might care to look at the Edward Douglas-Scott-Montagu, 3rd Baron Montagu of Beaulieu‎ page and my latest edit comment. Putting this disputed case out all over the web, decades after the event, seems exceptionally wrong to me. Regards, David Lauder 08:03, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that uncomfortable as it is, it's a big part of he man's notability. His conviction was an important part of the history of gay rights in Britain. The article seems to me to cover the issue quite fairly, by stressing both the victimisation (it seems that the crown was prepared to throw charges at him until he was convicted) and the wider political context. This case is widely known, and widely covered, and it seems to me that it would be wrong of wikipedia not to cover it as an important part of the article.

The article as it stands does not seem to me to reflect at all badly on Lord Montagu Beaulieu‎, but it does rightly stress the persecutory political climate of the time. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Horace King page

Dear "Brownhaired Girl" just to thank you for the addition of the unpublished biography at the end of Horace king (my Grandfather) I thought the biography lost. Yours sincerely John D Wilson 4 galingale way Portishead Bristol BS20 7LU

Hi John, glad you found the biography, but it wasn't actually me who added it. The note about it was added in this edit by an anonymous editor whose IP address (194.60.38.198) checks as out as being within the Houses of Parliament. I hope you succeed in getting a copy! --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:31, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Dates of birth etc

Oh, I apologise for that, I always thought years alone should not be linked, but I see that with regards to dates of birth/death they should. --UpDown 10:08, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

AfD and WP:PROD contest for List of philosophers born in the twentieth century

I'm interested to see how this particular list got restored, and on what grounds. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the AfD or PROD discussion for this list. Since you seem to have had a large part in the discussion, would you happen to be able to point me in the proper direction? Thanks! Sidatio 13:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

It wasn't restored, because it wasn't deleted. The list which was deleted was List of living philosophers and academics of philosophy: see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of living philosophers and academics of philosophy. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:02, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I see - I was thrown by the PROD tag on the talk page of the article. Thanks! Sidatio 14:06, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Fatimah

It is very unfortunate that you had to proceed with doing this to the article, taking advantage of the fact that all Shi'a editors including myself, actually have a life and won't be available to comment on the merge or try to fix the article. In case you haven't noticed, the fanatic editor to whose demands you gave in removed more that 12 sources concerning Fatimah's death, and added the phrase "A minority Shia view (which is disputed amongst Shia scholars)" so that it suits his own sick beliefs. It is too bad that the notorious Wikipedia disinformation infected this article as well. ^Klak_Sonn^Talk 14:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)