Template talk:S-par

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U.S. state legislatures[edit]

{{editprotected}} The two references to "U.S. state assemblies" should be changed to read "U.S. state legislatures", as that term is more widely used within the United States. --Tim4christ17 talk 17:02, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

done. — Carl (CBM · talk) 16:06, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Clarification requested per discussion.[edit]

{{editprotected}} Let's wait a bit before changing this, then. Per discussion here and here, please replace the U.S. legislature codes with the following code sections. I've replaced "upr" and "lwr" with "sen", "hs", and "asy" respectively.

The code for the first section (template code) is here. The code for the second section (template description) is here. --Tim4christ17 talk 11:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Nobody has ever mentioned "asy"; the agreed change was to substitute "upr" with "sen" and "lwr" with "hs", despite the fact that a few states have assemblies; introducing an "asy" parameter would ruin consistency and confuse the editors. Waltham, The Duke of 18:06, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
My understanding was that the decision was to use the "obvious" abbreviation with relation to the name of the legislative branch. "hs" for "house", "sen" for "senate". No, we didn't decide on a term to use for assemblies - if you can think of a more obvious parameter for assemblies than "asy", go ahead and use it instead. The consistency/confusion comes if we use "hs" to refer to assemblies, since that term has nothing to do with houses - the terms otherwise are directly related to the name of the legislative branch. --Tim4christ17 talk 18:17, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The thing is, there are people who do value consistency. Don't you think there should be a consensus for the "asy" parameter as well? Waltham, The Duke of 18:35, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
Referred back to the discussion here. Though I don't know why you think I don't value consistency. Rather, I value the consistency of labeling the legislative branches by the name of the branch, as was discussed previously. What I dislike is the elitism that is (perhaps unconsciously) promoted by using confusing, inconsistent, non-obvious parameters as you suggest. Again, I point you to the Manual of Style (we "should prefer what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity") and to the reason stated for the consensus we developed for "sen" and "hs", namely to preserve/enhance clarity and to avoid the false consistency that appeared when we used one term across the board for unlike terms. Indeed, using "hs" for all lower houses is worse than using "lwr" with respect to assemblies as it retains the original problems and adds the new problem that "hs" is a false descriptor having nothing to do with assemblies. Far better to three parameters that are clear, obvious, and consistent than two that aren't. --Tim4christ17 talk 20:11, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
The thing is, most Americans don't seem to know that there are houses called "Assembly", and assemblies are not any different from houses in everything but their names. And I personally find it strange that we should use a generalising parameter hs for houses that might have all sorts of different names like "House of Representatives" or "House of Delegates" but use a more specialising header asy just because those six houses don't have the word "House" in their name. It sets them apart in a way, and that is something people may not understand without reading these conversations.
What you say about hs being worse than lwr is entirely true if you look it under this light, but if we are to align parameters to names, we ought to develop something along the lines of hsr for "House of Representatives", hsd for "House of Delegates", and so on. That might even have the added benefit of making all parameters have three letters. But it might not work, after all. Why? Because it is even more confusing, and it will make people having to memorise all sorts of different of parameters, which is, of course, undesirable.
What I say is, leave the two parameters hs and sen, as they follow one simple format for all legislatures of the United States (happy birthday to them, by the way), which will be able to memorise and use in all succession boxes without an instructions manual. The thing is, these parameters are used to automatically produce the header name so that people will not have to do that instead. There is no need for a perfect match as long as people understand and accept the system. Waltham, The Duke of 13:35, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
One short response - you mention that peolpe won't know that we have assemblies...but the people using this parameter obviously will know - after all, they're writing about someone who's served in an assembly and have presumably done the research needed to find out how long the person served in the assembly. --Tim4christ17 talk 17:11, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I see this conversation as going no where. Regardless of who has assemblies and who does not, I think it should remain as "hs" to designate it as the lower house in the United States. I like consistency and all and I believe in this case that it is more consistent to keep all the lower houses as "hs" as opposed to having four or so of them labeled as "asy." Despite my own creation of abbreviations (see "ttl") I don't think "asy" embraces the concept of assembly, although I agree that the most logical abbreviation may not be universally accepted either. Sticking with "hs" is my final decision.
Whaleyland ( TalkContributions ) 22:17, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Editprotected request[edit]

{{editprotected}} It appears I've been outvoted....oh, well. Let's get this changed ASAP anyway. Here's the new requested code (replaces upr with sen and lwr with hs per discussion above). The code for the first section (template code) is here. The code for the second section (template description) is here. (This also fixes Iowa, so there is only one set of parameters referring to each house of the legislature - essentially reverting a change that I'd made before it was protected). --Tim4christ17 talk 19:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

For those admin who are not making this edit, this was approved and can be changed. It took some further negotiation but it is all resolved now.
Whaleyland ( TalkContributions ) 21:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I made the change. I also implemented the documentation trick, so the docs are now in the /doc subpage, and not protected. That makes maintenance easier. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
This change needs to be done again - apparently Carl accidentally removed the non-U.S. state parameters...and his entire change was reverted. --Tim4christ17 talk 02:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
It would be simpler if you would put the entire desired template source in your sandbox, to avoid such misinterpretation of your requested changes. — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Here's the entire code - just replace the template's current contents with it. Hope this helps! --Tim4christ17 talk 02:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I copied that over. It's much less error prone if you make all requests that way. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. --Tim4christ17 talk 07:42, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


Uhm, the parameters for the federal Congress have not been changed into the new format. Please someone change the parameter for the United States Senate header from us-upr to us-sen and the parameter for the United States House of Representatives from us-lwr to us-hs. The same change has been done for the rest of the state legislatures, per discussion above and in other venues linked to above. Waltham, The Duke of 18:30, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 22:15, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much. I have corrected the /doc page, which now reflects the changes. Waltham, The Duke of 06:19, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Parliament of Canada[edit]

 Done Could someone, who ever has access change Canadian House of Commons back to Parliament of Canada?, this header is used for the Canadian Senate succession boxes as well. --Cloveious 07:30, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Diet of Japan[edit]


{{editprotected}} It would be appreciated if someone adds the headers for the Diet of Japan. |jp-upr=House of Councillors of Japan |jp-lwr=House of Representatives of Japan

--KGF 04:10, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Removal of la parameter[edit]

{{editprotected}} It has been made aware during our discussion concerning the removal of the parameter la that actually that two-letter code is already the official code (ISO 3166) for Laos and on those grounds I request the immediate removal of la as a parameter on this page. Despite the status of the discussion located here, it is clear that this parameter is limiting the ability for the Laos parliament to be recognized using the proper abbreviation. Please remove la from the internal parameters as well as the list parameters. Thank you!
Whaleyland ( TalkContributions ) 00:50, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, I believe that a header for Local Assemblies is quite redundant in its over-generalisation and relative lack of importance. In my opinion, it should go anyway. Waltham, The Duke of 09:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Consensus there does seem to be in favour of removing the parameter, but this is a very new request and I'd prefer to leave it open a while to wait for objections. Can someone confirm that the parameter isn't currently being used (or change all uses of it)? --ais523 16:42, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I have personally done a search on wikipedia and google:wikipedia for this parameter and have found no page currently using it. I believe that the Laos reason is reason enough to remove it regardless of further discussion.
Whaleyland ( TalkContributions ) 18:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

 Done! Neil  08:56, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Fixed problem...please insert[edit]


Please replace

{{{else=Assembly Seats||{{{test={{{1|}}}|1|}}}}}}{{#switch:{{{1}}}


{{#if:{{{1}}}||Assembly seats}}{{#switch:{{{1}}} |#default={{{1|Assembly seats}}}

This will fix the problem of no null parameter and will default properly to Assembly seats. I am trying to get it on all the templates but it is taking some time.
Whaleyland ( TalkContributions ) 23:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 22:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Other Northern Ireland bodies[edit]

{{editprotected}} I would like to suggest headers for four other legislative bodies that have existed in Northern Ireland between Stormont and the current Assembly:

ni/1973=[[Northern Ireland Assembly]] (1973-1974)

This header would be for the Northern Ireland Assembly, elected in 1973 under the terms of the Sunningdale Agreement; it collapsed the following year.

ni/1975=[[Northern Ireland Constitutional Convention]]

This header would be for the Northern Ireland Constitutional Convention, elected in 1975 to discuss Northern Ireland's future government.

ni/1982=[[Northern Ireland Assembly]] (1982-1986)

This header would be for the Northern Ireland Assembly, elected in 1982 to graduly devolve powers to NI. It was abolished in 1986.

ni/forum=[[Northern Ireland Forum]]

This header would be for the Northern Ireland Forum, elected in 1996 to negotiate what became the Belfast Agreement; it sat until 1998.

Also, because of this, the current NI Assembly header should read: [[Northern Ireland Assembly]] (1998-present)

- Thanks, Hoshie 23:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I am not sure the dates will look good on the headers, and perhaps something like "First Northern Ireland Assembly" would be better (note that I am not saying we should not disambiguate at all). After all, the dates can be seen in the title fields of the succession lines immediately following the headers. Waltham, The Duke of 08:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
"First Northern Ireland Assembly" would be misleading there is no relationship between the 1882 Assembly and those setup under the Good Friday Agreement.--padraig 11:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Change wikilink for Texas Senate[edit]

Please change:

|us-tx-sen=Texas Legislature


|us-tx-sen=Texas Senate

Thanks. — Bellhalla 15:20, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

YesY Done --ais523 15:51, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Edit Protect Request[edit]


Below is a copy of the current code, fixed to correct a the open paramter problem already thought corrected. It also removes the |la parameter which was noted above as removed already but upon further investigation, it has not been. Please paste over the current code with the following (go into the edit option to copy properly, thank you! It needs to have the protected template option reintroduced since I could not paste it here. Do not copy nowikis).

<includeonly>|- ! colspan="3" style="background: #cccccc" | {{#if:{{{1}}}||Assembly seats}}{{#switch:{{{1}}} |#default={{#if:{{{1}}}|Assembly seats}} |uk=[[Parliament of the United Kingdom]] (1801–present) |gb=[[Parliament of Great Britain]] (1707–1800) |en=[[Parliament of England]] (to 1707) |sct=[[Scottish Parliament]] |wal=[[National Assembly for Wales]] |ni=[[Parliament of Northern Ireland]] |ni/ass=[[Northern Ireland Assembly]] |us-sen=[[United States Senate]] |us-hs=[[United States House of Representatives]] |us-al-sen=[[Alabama Senate]] |us-al-hs=[[Alabama House of Representatives]] |us-ak-sen=[[Alaska Senate]] |us-ak-hs=[[Alaska House of Representatives]] |us-as-sen=[[American Samoa Senate]] |us-as-hs=[[American Samoa House of Representatives]] |us-az-sen=[[Arizona Senate]] |us-az-hs=[[Arizona House of Representatives]] |us-ar-sen=[[Arkansas Senate]] |us-ar-hs=[[Arkansas House of Representatives]] |us-ca-sen=[[California State Senate|California Senate]] |us-ca-hs=[[California State Assembly|California Assembly]] |us-co-sen=[[List of members of the Colorado Senate|Colorado Senate]] |us-co-hs=[[List of members of the Colorado House of Representatives|Colorado House of Representatives]] |us-ct-sen=[[Connecticut Senate]] |us-ct-hs=[[Connecticut House of Representatives]] |us-de-sen=[[Delaware Senate]] |us-dc=[[Council of the District of Columbia]] |us-de-hs=[[Delaware House of Representatives]] |us-fl-sen=[[Florida Senate]] |us-fl-hs=[[Florida House of Representatives]] |us-ga-sen=[[Georgia Senate]] |us-ga-hs=[[Georgia House of Representatives]] |us-gu=[[Legislature of Guam]] |us-hi-sen=[[Hawaii Senate]] |us-hi-hs=[[Hawaii House of Representatives]] |us-id-sen=[[Idaho Senate]] |us-id-hs=[[Idaho House of Representatives]] |us-il-sen=[[Illinois Senate]] |us-il-hs=[[Illinois House of Representatives]] |us-in-sen=[[Indiana Senate]] |us-in-hs=[[Indiana House of Representatives]] |us-ia-sen=[[Iowa Senate]] |us-ia-hs=[[Iowa House of Representatives]] |us-ks-sen=[[Kansas Senate]] |us-ks-hs=[[Kansas House of Representatives]] |us-ky-sen=[[Kentucky Senate]] |us-ky-hs=[[Kentucky House of Representatives]] |us-la-sen=[[Louisiana Senate]] |us-la-hs=[[Louisiana House of Representatives]] |us-me-sen=[[Maine Senate]] |us-me-hs=[[Maine Senate]] |us-mp-sen=[[Northern Mariana Islands Senate]] |us-mp-hs=[[Northern Mariana Islands House of Representatives]] |us-md-sen=[[Maryland Senate]] |us-md-hs=[[Maryland House of Delegates]] |us-ma-sen=[[Massachusetts Senate]] |us-ma-hs=[[Massachusetts House of Representatives]] |us-mi-sen=[[Michigan Senate]] |us-mi-hs=[[Michigan State House of Representatives]] |us-mn-sen=[[Minnesota Senate]] |us-mn-hs=[[Minnesota House of Representatives]] |us-ms-sen=[[Mississippi Senate]] |us-ms-hs=[[Mississippi House of Representatives]] |us-mo-sen=[[Missouri State Senate|Missouri Senate]] |us-mo-hs=[[Missouri House of Representatives]] |us-mt-sen=[[Montana Senate]] |us-mt-hs=[[Montana House of Representatives]] |us-ne=[[Nebraska Legislature]] |us-nv-sen=[[Nevada Senate]] |us-nv-hs=[[Nevada Assembly]] |us-nh-sen=[[New Hampshire Senate]] |us-nh-hs=[[New Hampshire House of Representatives]] |us-nj-sen=[[New Jersey Senate]] |us-nj-hs=[[New Jersey General Assembly]] |us-nm-sen=[[New Mexico Senate]] |us-nm-hs=[[New Mexico House of Representatives]] |us-ny-sen=[[New York State Senate]] |us-ny-hs=[[New York State Assembly|New York Assembly]] |us-nc-sen=[[North Carolina Senate]] |us-nc-hs=[[North Carolina House of Representatives]] |us-nd-sen=[[North Dakota Senate]] |us-nd-hs=[[North Dakota House of Representatives]] |us-oh-sen=[[Ohio Senate]] |us-oh-hs=[[Ohio House of Representatives]] |us-ok-sen=[[Oklahoma Senate]] |us-ok-hs=[[Oklahoma House of Representatives]] |us-or-sen=[[Oregon State Senate|Oregon Senate]] |us-or-hs=[[Oregon House of Representatives]] |us-pa-sen=[[Pennsylvania State Senate]] |us-pa-hs=[[Pennsylvania House of Representatives]] |us-pr-sen=[[Senate of Puerto Rico]] |us-pr-hs=[[House of Representatives of Puerto Rico]] |us-ri-sen=[[Rhode Island Senate]] |us-ri-hs=[[Rhode Island House of Representatives]] |us-sc-sen=[[South Carolina Senate]] |us-sc-hs=[[South Carolina House of Representatives]] |us-sd-hs=[[South Dakota Senate]] |us-sd-sen=[[South Dakota House of Representatives]] |us-tn-sen=[[Tennessee Senate]] |us-tn-hs=[[Tennessee House of Representatives]] |us-tx-sen=[[Texas Senate]] |us-tx-hs=[[Texas House of Representatives]] |us-ut-sen=[[Utah State Senate]] |us-ut-hs=[[Utah House of Representatives]] |us-vt-sen=[[Vermont Senate]] |us-vt-hs=[[Vermont House of Representatives]] |us-va-sen=[[Senate of Virginia]] |us-va-hs=[[Virginia House of Delegates]] |us-vi=[[Legislature of the Virgin Islands]] |us-wa-sen=[[Washington State Senate]] |us-wa-hs=[[Washington House of Representatives]] |us-wv-sen=[[West Virginia Senate]] |us-wv-hs=[[West Virginia House of Delegates]] |us-wi-sen=[[Wisconsin State Senate]] |us-wi-hs=[[Wisconsin State Assembly]] |us-wy-sen=[[Wyoming Senate]] |us-wy-hs=[[Wyoming House of Representatives]] |ca=[[Parliament of Canada]] |ca-bc=[[Legislative Assembly of British Columbia]] |ca-ab=[[Legislative Assembly of Alberta]] |ca-sk=[[Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan]] |ca-mb=[[Legislative Assembly of Manitoba]] |ca-on=[[Legislative Assembly of Ontario]] |ca-qc=[[National Assembly of Quebec]] |ca-nb=[[Legislative Assembly of New Brunswick]] |ca-ns=[[Nova Scotia House of Assembly]] |ca-pe=[[Legislative Assembly of Prince Edward Island]] |ca-nl=[[Newfoundland and Labrador House of Assembly]] |ca-yt=[[Yukon Legislative Assembly]] |ca-nt=[[Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories]] |ca-nu=[[Legislative Assembly of Nunavut]] |ie=[[Parliament of Ireland]] |ie/oi=[[Oireachtas]] |jp-upr=[[House of Councillors of Japan]] |jp-lwr=[[House of Representatives of Japan]] |eu=[[European Parliament]] |au=[[Parliament of Australia]] |au-vic=[[Parliament of Victoria]] |au-wa=[[Parliament of Western Australia]] |dk=[[Folketing|Folketinget]] |dk-lt=[[Landsting (Denmark)|Landstinget]] |gh=[[Parliament of Ghana]] }}</includeonly><noinclude> [[Category:Succession templates|{{PAGENAME}}]] {{/doc}} <!-- Add categories and interwikis to the /doc subpage, not here. --> </noinclude>

Thank you!
Whaleyland ( TalkContributions ) 00:13, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. Cheers. --MZMcBride 09:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Parliament of South Australia[edit]


Please add as a paramater au-sa with a link to Parliament of South Australia. Just like the Victorian and NT one. Thanks --Borgardetalk 04:15, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be better to create the headers for all the Parliaments in Australia in one go? Just to spare everyone the extra trouble. I reckon the abbreviations are not hard to find. Waltham, The Duke of 17:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
YesY - done, just put a note here again if others are desired. SkierRMH (talk) 09:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I am only saying this because I know that all the remaining headers will be requested eventually. And "less edits for the same result" could be one of the definitions of efficiency. But I don't really mind that much. Waltham, The Duke of 16:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Parliament of Singapore[edit]


Please add a parameter to Parliament of Singapore. Thanks. Terence (talk) 15:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

 Done as {{s-par|sg}} --Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:47, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

U.S. Public Office[edit]

Please add a parameter for "U.S. Public Office" it does not need to link to anything.--Dr who1975<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/navpop.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css&dontcountme=s"> (talk) 17:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I am afraid that I do not understand. What exactly would the purpose of a "U.S. Public Office" header be and what does it have to do with the Parliaments header? What you are asking for sounds suspiciously similar to the header designed for political offices: s-off.
For more information about the header system in general, I should like to refer you to the relevant sections in the S-start series documentation page and in SBS's guidelines page. Waltham, The Duke of 17:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
It has nothing to do with parliament. This is a new section with a completely unrelated request just like the discussion about the Texas Senate has nothing to do with parliament. I would like a general "United States Public Office" paramter added to the template (something like {{S-par|us-po}} ) so that I can use it as a header for general Unitesd States public office succession boxes.--Dr who1975 (talk) 16:26, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
No matter whether it is parliament, congress, or any other assembly, it goes here because this is the talk page for the relevant header, which is only used for seats in the aforementioned bodies. In other words, the Texas Senate request was far from irrelevant. The best place for your request is probably the main templates' talk page, Template talk:S-start, because it doesn't exactly fit any existing templates. It will also be more visible there and thus receive more input.
I myself doubt the usefulness of a Public offices header; we already have specialised headers for political offices, posts in the government, military offices, legal offices, civil offices, diplomatic posts... You name it. I still don't know what exactly you define as "Public offices", or why a more generic header would be more useful than the existing system. In addition, we do not disambiguate headers by country (with the exception of peerages), as the country is more or less clearly shown in the title of each office; we prefer to categorise titles thematically, not least because most office-holders only occupy offices of one country. In my last reply I gave you two useful links—I should be more patient with you if I knew that you had actually read them.
By the way, we have met again, have we not? Again, under rather unpleasant circumstances. Really, this is bad for diplomatic relations; it is even greater a pity if one considers that we are both Doctor Who fans (I am a recent convert). Please forgive my somewhat negative mood, but I have a lot going on in my head (including the perennial delay of business in SBS). In any case, just sit down and think of this a little. And please explain your thoughts a little clearer, so that our discussion can go somewhere. Waltham, The Duke of 17:20, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with a lot of the divisions on this template but there's too many subcategories. It subverts the purpose of succession boxes which is to give a chronological picture or related positions.--Dr who1975 (talk) 19:12, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
The thing is, the purpose of succession boxes is not necessarily to give a strictly chronological view of the titles. This is done in the article, after all, where the prose follows the course of the subject's life. Succession boxes, partly in order to justify their existence, are called to offer something different from the text—this is exactly why titles of nobility are listed in order of precedence, which is not simply different from the chronological one, but is quite often its exact opposite. Besides, thematic categorisation and headers ease navigation along succession chains. When designing succession boxes, you know, one has to look at the greater picture. This extends quite far beyond each individual article. Waltham, The Duke of 00:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

U.S. Congress[edit]

There are already two succession boxes which are widely employed for consistency:

They can be easily used with {{S-par}} and should not be subverted. —Markles 20:03, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Meaning? Waltham, The Duke of 00:13, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry. I meant that some users have been diligently applying {{S-par}} and it's sister compenents and removing the two aforementioned congressional templates. There's no reason to eliminate use of those templates, that's all.—Markles 00:23, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
    • I should think that the parliament header is irrelevant from the template used for the succession line itself, and that these editors confusing their relation are clearly mistaken. However, there are editors, like myself, who substitute the two templates in question in favour of templates of the S-start series, namely basic templates s-bef, s-ttl, and s-aft, as well as supplementary templates s-new, s-non, s-inc, and s-vac. These templates constitute a newer and more flexibe system that allows for succession boxes easy to use and adaptable to a much greater variety of succession configurations. I agree that certain standards need to be devised, but I consider the eventual substitution and phasing out of the rather "stiff", in terms of use, templates USRepSuccessionBox and U.S. Senator Box to be an improvement on several different levels.
      And, even agreeing with the fact that we are not yet in sight of such an eventuality, I should say that their usage ought not to be further encouraged. Especially in a header template page, which is, as I have already mentioned, quite irrelevant from the succession lines themselves. I find it highly probable that I might remove it in the future, or that it will be removed by some one else. I have already stated several reasons why this should happen. For more information on the matter, you could visit WikiProject Succession Box Standardization. We shall be glad to answer any question that might arise. Waltham, The Duke of 00:38, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit protection request[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please update {{/doc}} with {{documentation}}. Per Wikipedia:Template documentation/List Thankyou. -- αŁʰƏЩ @ 05:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. – Luna Santin (talk) 08:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

State Parliaments of Australia - ones outstanding[edit]

{{editprotected}} Hi, Can you add the remaining State Parliaments of Australia? They are:

Thanks, Snappy56 (talk) 08:06, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

 Done —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 22:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Philippine Congress[edit]

Hi, could have add a parameter for the Congress of the Philippines? They are:

Thanks, Rizalninoynapoleon (talk) 14:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

 Done --Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:48, 2 November 2009 (UTC)


{{editprotected}} us-me-hs is rendering as Maine Senate, should be Maine House of Representatives. Thanks, Bazj (talk) 16:19, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

 Done --Philosopher Let us reason together. 16:50, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Bazj (talk) 17:31, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Predecessor and successor in the European Parliament[edit]

Given that proportional representation is used to elect MEPs, what are we supposed to enter in "Predeced by" and "Succeeded by"? (talk) 13:55, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Request for new creations[edit]

Could someone create templates for the following?:

Thanks. Mooretwin (talk)

Hello? Mooretwin (talk) 15:00, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Why is this request being ignored? Mooretwin (talk) 17:55, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
HELLO? Mooretwin (talk) 13:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
We had some brief discussion at my talk page, including some concern that some bodies aren't properly legislatures. I note first that |ni is already in use for the Parliament of Northern Ireland and that |ni/ass is in use for Northern Ireland Assembly. I propose that |ni/ass/73 be created for Northern Ireland Assembly (1973), |ni/ass/82 for Northern Ireland Assembly (1982), |ni/cc for Northern Ireland Constitutional Convention, and |ni/for for Northern Ireland Forum. The parameter names, especially the numbered ones, are a little stilted so any better suggestions would be appreciated. If there are no objections in a few days, I'll implement these changes. --Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:16, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Many thanks. If it's important, the full name of the Forum was the Northern Ireland Forum for Political Dialogue. Mooretwin (talk) 23:15, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I have no complaints about having these parameters added. My only suggestion is to not put a second backslash on the params and just do ass73 and ass82. I think adding years as a third level parameter is a bit much. Also, I don't know anything about these assemblies, but make sure they are made up of people with successive titles. These should go atop succession lists, not non-successive titles. Thanks!
Darius von Whaleyland, Great Khan of the Barbarian Horde 18:04, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
I'll make the change with the parameter names. These titles seem to be successive in nature, but I'm not familiar enough with Northern Irish political history to say for sure that they are. --Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:47, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

 Done. --Philosopher Let us reason together. 23:36, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Parliament of New Zealand[edit]

{{editprotected}}Can the parameter {{s-par|NZ}} or {{s-par|nz}} or something be added for the Parliament of New Zealand.
Thanks, Adabow (talk) 23:42, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

 Done -- Denelson83 05:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


Please add ru:Шаблон:S-par.--Александр Мотин (talk) 17:14, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done --Philosopher Let us reason together. 19:44, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Hong Kong government seats[edit]

Please help with adding {{s-par|hk}} to the parameter for:

Legislative Council of Hong Kong

Thanks, Tavatar (talk) 14:30, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

 Done --Philosopher Let us reason together. 21:23, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Confederate States Senate seats[edit]

Please help with adding {{s-par|csa-sen}} to the parameter for:

Congress of the Confederate States of America

Thanks,Tktru (talk) 06:13, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

How about two parameters: |cs-sen and |cs-hs for the Confederate House and Senate? Since the two houses don't have separate pages, they would both link to Congress of the Confederate States. Also, the use of "cs" instead of "csa" would be inline with the usage of "us" instead of "usa" for the United States parameters. --Philosopher Let us reason together. 23:05, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
 Done. Created as |cs-sen and |cs-hs. For state governments within the Confederacy, you should be able to use the existing US parameters. --Philosopher Let us reason together. 22:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Provincial councils in New Zealand[edit]

Can we please add the Provincial Councils of New Zealand to this? I envisage the following:

  • nz-akl Auckland Province
  • nz-tar Taranaki Province (note that this was originally called New Plymouth Province)
  • nz-hab Hawke's Bay Province
  • nz-wlg Wellington Province
  • nz-nel Nelson Province
  • nz-mar Marlborough Province
  • nz-wld Westland Province
  • nz-can Canterbury Province
  • nz-ota Otago Province
  • nz-sld Southland Province

Thanks heaps. Schwede66 09:24, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Parliament of Egypt[edit]

{{editprotected}} Could someone please add a link to Parliament of Egypt? The two-letter code should be eg.

|eg=[[Parliament of Egypt]]

--BomBom (talk) 19:13, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

 Done. Can you update the documentation? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 00:49, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
 Done. Thank you. I updated the documentation. --BomBom (talk) 16:37, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Parliament of South Africa[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add a parameter for the Parliament of South Africa - "za" would be appropropriate in view of that country's domain names tag.

In addition, could there also be created parameters for;

House of Assembly of South Africa - za-hoa; Senate of South Africa - za-sosa; House of Representatives of South Africa - za-hor; House of Delegates of South Africa - za-hod; National Assembly of South Africa - za-na; National Council of Provinces of South Africa - za-ncop



BAP (talk) 07:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Would you please make your requested changes to the /sandbox version of the template? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:50, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Done - Bruce BAP
Um, you have not edited Template:S-par/sandbox yet? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, NFI - don't worry about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BAP (talkcontribs) 08:38, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I had a moment of frustration - I believe I have put my requested changes into the sandbox, yet all I get is the default, "Assembly seats." Can someone help please BAP (talk) 10:31, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Actually, what you have edited was not the sandbox but the template's documentation page, which gives instructions on how the template ought to be used; I have reverted for now, because in its current state it is misleading. Before we proceed on your request, I'd like to discuss the details a bit; as soon as we're done, I'll be happy to take care of the rest of the process myself.
First of all, red links look odd in headers and raise legitimate questions about the lack of articles for legislatures worth having succession boxes; I have created redirects from "House of Representatives of South Africa" and "House of Delegates of South Africa" to Tricameral Parliament, though pipe-linking would also work.
Regarding the parameters, I have a different system to propose, based on abbreviations rather than initialisms, some of which may be harder to remember ("Is of included in the initials or not?"). For starters, we could eliminate some redundancy by using za-sen rather than za-sosa for the Senate (considering that za already stands for "South Africa"). In the same vein, we could use za-del for the House of Delegates and za-rep for the House of Representatives; to disambiguate between the House of Assembly and the National Assembly we could use za-hass and za-nass respectively. Which leaves the National Council of Provinces... A compatible parameter in this case might be za-coun or za-prov.
Which leads me to a second, perhaps simpler system, based on initialisms but without the redundancies and "of"s, and with the exception of the Senate: za-ha – House of Assembly, za-sen – Senate (unless you find za-s acceptable), za-hr – House of Representatives, za-hd – House of Delegates, za-na – National Assembly, za-ncp – National Council of Provinces.
What do you think? Waltham, The Duke of 19:06, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm more than happy to defer to your expertise - please proceed with the second, more simpler initials based system.

Many thanks for your guidance and assistance.

BAP (talk) 22:57, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

You are welcome. I now realise I have left off the plain "Parliament of South Africa" header but, quite frankly, I cannot see the point; where would the header for the legislature be used if there are separate headers for its chambers? I take note of the existence of such headers for the state parliaments of Australia, and I am really interested in seeing whether and to what extent they are used. Anyway...


Changes logged in the sandbox. Waltham, The Duke of 23:42, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

If you wouldn't mind, could you please include the plain "Parliament of South Africa," as I will need it to differentiate between Parliament pre 1984 and post 1994.

BAP (talk) 01:29, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I have re-added "za" for the parliament as reqeusted. I've also made a few other tweaks. Can you check if we are good to go? TDoW: thanks for helping with this. BAP: sorry for not being more helpful earlier; I know these templates are fairly complex! — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Regarding the plain "Parliament of South Africa" header, BAP, I remain unconvinced. Although it is possible, using two headers one directly above the other is against our project's guidelines and can cause confusion (it looks as if a succession line is missing in between). For this reason, only one header may be used for each group of succession lines, and therefore one can use either the "Parliament of South Africa" header or one of the more specialised ones, like "House of Assembly of South Africa". It is my understanding that we have specialised headers for all historical and current chambers of this legislature, so the general header appears to be unnecessary. In any event, the only case where I see a need to distinguish between two bodies with the same name is that of the Senate. There is a precedent in the assemblies of Northern Ireland, but in those cases there are separate articles for the different legislatures, which is not the case here. Perhaps we could split the Senate header into two ("Senate of South Africa (1910–1981)" and "Senate of South Africa (1994–1997)") and link them to different sections of the article? Waltham, The Duke of 09:45, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Martin, the changes as made to the sandbox are good to go - many thanks to you and the Duke. BAP (talk) 00:25, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

You are welcome, and I hate to be a bore, but I am still curious: where and how exactly would you use the "Parliament of South Africa" header? I cannot think of any appropriate application. Waltham, The Duke of 01:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Should the template be displayed above the documentation?[edit]

(continuing from the section above) The other changes you've made seem to be improvements, Martin (I cannot tell, to be honest), but I have reverted the change that has resulted in the header's appearing at the top, above the green documentation box. Apart from the fact that this display is redundant, as the header appears within the said box (after being introduced), this change would go against the standardised look of our header pages (see examples listed here). Waltham, The Duke of 09:45, 12 August 2010 (UTC) moved at 21:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

I think perhaps you have misunderstood the edit that you reverted. Its only effect was the display on the template itself. Initially (and now also since the revert) the whole of the template's output was supressed on the template by using includeonly tags. It is best practice (in my opinion at least) to show as much as possible of the output on the template. There are at least two reasons for this. Firstly it gives editors looking at the template at least some idea of what the template does without even looking at the documentation. Secondly (and perhaps more importantly) it highlights any syntax errors in the template code which would otherwise be hidden (it is helpful for editors to get instant feedback on any changes they make to the code, and this is one of the easiest ways to detect some of the more obvious mistakes). Anyway I've disabled the request for now as it is still under discussion. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:46, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
First of all, I have sectioned this part off because it is not particularly relevant to the request on the South Africa headers; it is a matter that affects all header templates and ought to be discussed separately.
Now, from your reply, I can tell that I understood correctly the nature of your edit. If my words made it seem that I thought the function of the template or its use in succession boxes would be affected by the said edit, that was not my intention. My main objection was, as I have said, that I saw the display of the template above the documentation as unnecessary; I also objected to a highly visible change to a part of a standardised series of pages (namely the header template pages). Perhaps we might end up changing all the pages, but I do not like piecemeal interventions.
Your point about showing what the template is like is a good one, although I see in it a strange emphasis on not having to look at the documentation. The thing is, what appears at the top doesn't look that much like the final result of the template. In fact, the initial impression it gives (of a phrase highlighted in grey) is probably confusing. On the contrary, its absence forces the editor to look straight away at the documentation box, in the tables and examples of which the template is displayed exactly as it is supposed to be used. Therefore, if we are to show it at the top, might it not be better to show it in a simple table like the following?
Assembly seats
Or would it be misleading as well, but in this case because the outline would be created by different templates? I sense that those Wikipedians better versed in syntax and template-building might seek different things from the rest, who would, for the most part, just use the templates.
(Regarding your second point: even though the initial "defaults to" box of the documentation is artificial, all other instances of the template are proper transclusions, and reflect changes to the template in real time. Perhaps the documentation could be improved to make this more apparent, but I really do think that it contains everything an editor would expect to see.) Waltham, The Duke of 21:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Sorry for the late reply. I fully agree that, if possible, the display on template should be close to the actual display on uses of the template. I recently made an edit which partially achieved this. Does it look okay now? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:22, 15 June 2011 (UTC)


The European Parliament should be added.-- (talk) 14:16, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Move colour to top border as per WT:SBS discussion[edit]

Please move colour to top border as per WT:SBS discussion. Change



border-top: 5px solid

Thanks. Bazj (talk) 06:35, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:38, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Parliament of Malaysia[edit]

{{edit protected}} Please set {{S-par|my}} to Parliament of Malaysia. Thank you. - Yk3 talk · contrib 03:37, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Done. --Closedmouth (talk) 14:11, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


The switch statement in this template is exceedingly long and may well have started to affect performance, by taking longer to load up articles which are using it. So I am proposing to move each line into a separate subtemplate, and use ifexist to check for valid parameters instead. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:26, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I have now implemented this. Apologies in advance if there are any errors; please report them here. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 17:56, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Parliament of the Ottoman Empire[edit]

Please set {{S-par|oe}} to Parliament of the Ottoman Empire. Thank you.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 14:22, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Senate of Northern Ireland[edit]

Could I request a parameter for Senate of Northern Ireland? Mooretwin (talk) 14:00, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

Mooretwin, Reading Senate of Northern Ireland it appears the senators were elected indirectly and didn't represent a particular constituency. One bloc of 12 senators was replaced by another. I don't see how one senator could be said to succeed another. How do you see this being used? Cabayi (talk) 10:49, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
It wasn't a case of one block of 12 being replaced by another block of 12. Most senators served for more than one term, and many retired, resigned or died in office, and so at any given election or by-election there would have been a clear successor to an outgoing senator. Mooretwin (talk) 10:58, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
Can this be done? Mooretwin (talk) 13:11, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

Parliament of Southern Ireland[edit]

Could I also request a parameter for Parliament of Southern Ireland? Mooretwin (talk) 13:12, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

WT:IE & WT:SBS would be good places to solicit more input for this and the previous discussion. The archives at WT:IE, and the TfD at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 March 3#Template:S-par/ie/oi show previous thoughts on the issues. Cabayi (talk) 15:21, 1 March 2017 (UTC)