Talk:Elizabeth II

How much is the royal collection worth?

Does anyone here know how much the royal collection is worth? Somebody must have at least estimated its worth! Does anyone have any sources? --89.56.175.231 (talk) 12:28, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The answer I have for you is purely apocryphal — when I was at the palace one of my superiors told me that they once had an insurance company around to investigate the idea of insuring the palace. They went into one particular room (the Chinese room methinks) which was so lavish and inestimably expensive that they just gave up then and there. So the answer is something like "too expensive to insure" or "inestimable". ^† DBD 14:42, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

A very good question. I searched far and wide for the answer to that very question for the article Royal Collection but to no avail. Most estimates are 10 billion pound sterling upwards, though non of these estimates are reliable enough to be used as sources...I really think it is just one of those things you cant put a price on. The faberge eggs alone would fetch millions, then it is the biggest collection of da Vinci's works in the world, then there are Holbeins, Monet's (inherited off her mother, tax free as the Royal Collection is a "charity")..the Vermeers'...One really could go on forever. The forbes list never count this collection towards her personal wealth as it is "in trust". I really dont know why...it is technically still hers...and there are no laws to prevent/prohibit her from selling pieces off...Hope that helped a bit--Camaeron (t/c) 18:49, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Sarkozy bows to The Queen

Can I add this? I found it shockingly interesting and...well astounding really. Usually non-subjects of the Queen do not bow to HM The Queen, let alone heads of state, who are meant to be "equal". Besides nowadays ever more subjects of HM decide not to bow to her any more (it is no longer required...). What do you all think? --Cameron (t/c) 13:35, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't say I think it's particularly relevant. Has there been any media coverage of his bowing as being something out of the ordinary? -mattbuck (Talk) 13:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I think that technically only monarchs are equal to other monarchs, whereas presidents are not; it may have something to do with the sovereign actually being the embodiment of the state's sovereignty, whereas a president is merely an elected politician. I'm not sure about that, though. Maybe Sarkozy was just trying to be debonair... --G2bambino (talk) 14:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

And I suppose as a "commoner" he could never be equal to her = ) --Cameron (t/c) 15:10, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Not to get into a 'monarchy vs republican' row, but; Presidents are equal to Monarchs. As for Sarkozy? His bowing was likely personal choice (Elizabeth is a woman & older then him) - but to my knowledge, there's no protocol for it - Head of State bowing to another Head of State. PS- I can't picture a US President bowing to the Queen. GoodDay (talk) 16:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I think whether a Presidents and monarchs are equal is a matter of POV. I suppose Republicans and Monarchists would argue as to this. --Cameron (t/c) 18:09, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I think monarchs get a 21-gun salute and presidents only 19 (though I'm not sure of the number exactly). TharkunColl (talk) 18:12, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I've just checked the article 21 gun salute and apparently what I just said is no longer the case. TharkunColl (talk) 18:16, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

It would be controversial for a US President to bow to the Queen because the US is a former colony of the UK, whereas France never was. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:21, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Though parts of it were under English control for many centuries, and the English monarchs claimed the French throne. TharkunColl (talk) 18:25, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, he's been so overtly flattering and polite during the trip I wouldn't be surprised if he bowed to Brown and anyone else he happened upon. I'd say heads of state decide themselves how to react when greeting a monarch. --Tefalstar (talk) 18:27, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

See ¿Por qué no te callas? for an interesting tale of a monarch and a President of his country's former colony. And while Britain was temporarily a colony of the Norman French I don't believe France has ever been a colony of ours in the way the US was, and indeed the Americans still celebrate their independence from us with a huge party and firworks every year. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:33, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Under the Plantagenets vast swathes of France were technically occupied colonies of ours, because England was the seat of the Angevin Empire. I doubt anyone thinks that far back these days in terms of courtesy. --Tefalstar (talk) 18:41, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Whereas the Americans certainly do think that far back every July 4th. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Argh, I know this is way off topic, but neither country was ever a colony of the other. For much of the later middle ages, the same person was the King of England and also a Duke who held various parts of France under the feudal overlordship of the French King. The *English* didn't own parts of France; certain French duchies were in personal union with England. The English kings were also Dukes of Aquitaine, Normandy, and other French lands, but that didn't mean that *England* owned or was sovereign those territories; and the Kings of England owed the Kings of France certain duties for their French lands, but that didn't give the king of France any control over England. The modern-day equivalent would be a weird situation in which, say, the President of Mexico was also the Governor of Texas -- in Mexico he would be the chief executive, whereas in Texas he was part of a political system in which he had some power but wasn't at the top of the pyramid. --Jfruh (talk) 19:37, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Indeed not and really the concept of colonization only started with the Spanish in the Americas, and the French retain their own language which is a strong indication that they weren't colonised, anyway we are off topic but its still fascinating stuff. Thanks, SqueakBox 20:19, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

To get back to point. It may be that we are blowing the significance of the 'bow' out of proportion. I saw Sarkozy nodding his head and shaking her hand. To me it looked no more than a common courtesy. It is still not uncommon for people to nod their heads to someone as a mark of respect.And it may be a French thing.--Gazzster (talk) 20:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Seeing as we're not going to 'add' the bow to the article; what are we discussing? GoodDay (talk) 20:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Whatever it was, we seem to be talked out!--Gazzster (talk) 21:01, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Well a nod of the head is really all our "modern day bow" is. I dont know how aquainted you are with British Court procedure but nowadays one doesnt bend ones back anymore...merely the nodding of the head is required...--Cameron (t/c) 23:13, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I 'bow' to your knowledge of royal protocol. But my point about it possibly being a common courtesy that might be accorded any older woman by a middle-aged man holds. But it is not important.--Gazzster (talk) 23:37, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Personal wealth vs trusts

The article states that her "personal" art collection is "held in trust for...the nation". If it is in trust, how is it her personal art collection? LachlanA (talk) 05:55, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The Queen owns the collection as sovereign. I have just added sources stating this to the article Royal Collection if you are interested...--Cameron (t/c) 14:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Pre-1066?

The article says of the UK: "over parts of whose territories her ancestors have reigned for more than a thousand years". What parts of the UK were under her ancestors' rule before the Norman conquest? A reference should be given here. LachlanA (talk) 06:07, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Henry I married the daughter of Edgar the Atheling's sister. TharkunColl (talk) 08:27, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, Elizabeth's lineage goes back to Egbert of Wessex. -- GoodDay (talk) 15:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Which, if you dont acknowledge "King" Offa as I don't, means the monarchy has come a full circle...--Cameron (t/c) 15:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

In what way? TharkunColl (talk) 15:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Well the currect Queen is a descendant of the first King...Call me soppy but I like the idea of that....--Cameron (t/c) 15:54, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Continuity is the monarchy's greatest strength. She is also, of course, descended from most of the other monarchs in between, except those who didn't actually have children (or were excluded). Furthermore, Egbert himself is descended from Cerdic of Wessex, whom Geoffrey Ashe has theorised was a son of King Arthur. TharkunColl (talk) 16:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes...dear old Cedric..though I'm not quite sure I believe in Arthur...there just isnt enough concrete evidence...though of course it would be really cool! The Queen certainly does seem to be the "royalest" monarch in the world. The blood that flows in her veins puts the other monarchs to shame... (sorry, that's POV, isnt it?) --Cameron (t/c) 16:08, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

If you did a medical check? Her's is human blood, trust me on that. GoodDay (talk) 16:34, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Not according to David Icke, who believes she is an extraterrestrial lizard. TharkunColl (talk) 16:46, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Giggle, giggle. GoodDay (talk) 17:10, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Well it certainly needs to be sourced, fairly meaningless concept if you ask me as without inbreeding and 3 generations per century will give her a million odd great-grandparents from 1000 years ago and I doubt whether there were more than a million people in the UK in 1008. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Possibly about 3 or 4 million people in England in the 11th century if I remember correctly. But yes, many of those million odd ancestors will actually be the same individuals. I remember reading somewhere that somebody calculated that 90% of the English population are descended from one of Henry I's bastards, but that calculation again doesn't take into account inbreeding. TharkunColl (talk) 17:32, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep, there was alot of cousinly love in the history of the family. GoodDay (talk) 17:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Indeed Elizabeth and Philip are cousins too (second cousins once removed, through Christian IX of Denmark). It is not something to be ashamed of. It strengthens blood ties and maintains the blood purity of the family...--Cameron (t/c) 17:24, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

What inbreeding is good? I think that is, to say the least of it, an old fashioned idea. Thanks, SqueakBox 17:30, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I think we've gotten off track folks. We're drifting into blogism. GoodDay (talk) 17:41, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but its fun occasionally.--Gazzster (talk) 21:23, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Wrong image title

The image of HM aged 7 is titled Elizabeth II of England, does anyone know how to change it? Is it even possible to rename pics? --Cameron (t|p|c) 21:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

actually the image name is Image:Philip Alexius de Laszlo-Princess Elizabeth of York, Currently Queen Elizabeth II of England,1933.jpg and the only way to rename images is by reuploading the image under a different name. nat.utoronto 21:07, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Still wrong though isnt it? The only Queen Elizabeth of England was Elizabeth I of England.. --Cameron (t|p|c) 11:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Technically, yes. However, it barely affects this article - if you think it's worth correcting, bring it up at the image talk page, or better yet, do the reuploading yourself. I'm sure it would have happened already if the ratio between effort and effect were less. JPD (talk) 11:51, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Move to Elizabeth II?

Since Her Royal Highness Queen Elizabeth II also serves as Queen of Canada, New Zealand, and the rest of the British commonwealth I this would be a good idea to present a world-wide view. --RucasHost (talk) 23:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Order of Succession

This article and every other one I read states that since Edward the VIII had no children, she would eventually have become queen whether Edward had abdicated or not. Isn't it actually true that since her father died before Edward VIII, his other brother, Henry would have become King upon Edward's death and then Henry's son Richard would now be King?

70.173.47.89 (talk) 00:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)Ric