Talk:Lineage II

I'm curious from the perspective of someone who has played it, what makes this game different from WoW or EQ2 or any of the others? Pojo

Some of the mechanics are different. You pick either mage or fighter and then later pick sub classes, as opposed to the more traditional approach of picking one class and being that the whole way through.

Also, there's a rediculous amount of grind under the default settings. It takes what feels like forever to level or get money. Private servers often boost the xp/drop rates by up to or beyond 10x to make it more fun and less mind-numbing grind. Thirdly, they release new content every couple of months, so that's something cool.

I wouldn't know, I run my own L2J server, but I've never played WoW or EQ2. If you want to see it, go here. You can't really know until you try, I say. --70.66.45.226 19:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I downloaded Lineage on my computer and It has a better picture than WoW

Private Servers

Removed http://lineage.pmfun.com/ from the fansite listing, over half their content is directly copied from Lineage II Stratics and they solely deal in private servers, they have no place on Wikipedia.

Why are there links to private servers? As the Wiki says NCSoft does not permit any changes to the client and at least one (I assume all) of the linked server does. 89.53.115.67 09:29, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually your right, according to WP:EL External sites can possibly violate copyright. Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else's copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. Whether such a link is contributory infringement is currently being debated in the courts, but in any case, linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on us. For that I have removed links to private servers. Note to any editors reading this. Do NOT add links to private servers. L2J servers should go under the L2J article. L2 Servers that uses modified client should definately be removed. --Ichiro (会話|+|投稿記録|メール) 06:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

"NC Soft released the server software legally in the fall of 2005, removing any issues of legality" who wrote this? i think this is bullsh!t...

It was already there when I rewrote the article. Feel free to provide links saying otherwise, and then I'll remove it. (I'm not someone to plays the game, just someone who screamed in horror at the amount of plagiarized content in this article.) Ladlergo 13:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Well kinda hard to find a straight statement for that, it's simply wrong and absurd. Their EULA states: NC Interactive has designed Lineage II for play only as offered by NC Interactive at the Web Site. [..] You further agree not to create or provide any other means through which Lineage II may be played by others, as through server emulators. They never released any server code and the only thing you'll find to download at their webpage is the game client. --85.178.65.124 04:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

1. - you dont need to edit client to play on private servers
2. who removed my note about Chronicle 4 leak? How can I proof this is true? Chronicle 4 was leaked again, in same way as Chronicle 1 was. From PTS in Korea.

True. http://www.gamesites200.com/lineage2/ there are lots of full C4 servers here. Tried them and yeah, it really is bugless C4 (not L2J), so the server files must have been released. Template:Bavanai

I DISPUTE THIS CLAIM Why are private servers that do NOT derived from the leaked lineage 2 code base and do NOT edit the client code (most just redirect DNS queries for the server name to the IP address of their private server) not considered Fair Use? The wikipedia nazis should not remove any links to COMPLETELY LEGAL private servers that DO NOT use leaked code and DO NOT modify the client. Please cite proof for why they should, when Ultima Online and other private server emulators have been deemed "legal". I have added the server links to the L2J article. - Sniper Fox 12:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, L2J article is best place for a few links to L2J private servers. But putting that in Lineage II article looks like advertisment for competing product, so no private server links of any kind in main article. Shinhan 17:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I officially begin an NPOV dispute. Not showing alternative / private servers is not neutral because it clearly relates to the encyclopedic content of the Lineage 2 video game. I have added an POV-section tag to the private server section. Sniper Fox 18:11, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

I am making a compromise by adding the link to the site which ranks the private servers (Game sites top 200), the site itself does not violate any copyrights, so I would assume it is okay to add the link. Private server's existance is already established in this article, so I do not quite understand what you mean by "not showing".--Y.Ichiro (会話) 02:54, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I completely disagree with posting links to anything relating to actual private servers themselves. Private servers are still a legal grey area and it's better to be safe than sound. We are in no position to judge on the legality of this issue and I'm afraid that this will only set a precedent that will lead to linkspam by countless private servers who will vandalize this page. Should we state that potential illegal activity regarding non-NCSoft servers happens? Yes. Should we support something potentially illegal? No. Does linking to any private server or collection thereof even remotely add value to this article? No. The reasoning that private should be included is weak at best; laws don't care about neutrality and, in fact, overrule neutrality. :: DarkLordSeth 12:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I know this is pretty old discussion, but I just wanted to point out that Private Servers are offering a service they are NOT authorized to provide. Thus they are not legal in any form or fashion. Unlike UO, Lineage 2 is not a freely provided entity, which is why we have L2SEA licensing the right to provide official L2 servers for another region. Xelliz (talk) 16:47, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Other classes?

Can someone add the other classes/races? The other MMOG articles on Wiki go into detail with this stuff, so why not this one? I would add it, but I don't know anything really about this game.(Besides skimming the official site. :P) Keero 08:28, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I just majourly edited the Humans' topic. The datails now consist of the overview given to them by NCSoft itself (in the official site) along with an technical analysis about how the class is usually played, from the viewpoing of the considerably experienced player I consider myself. I hope it helps. Also, consider my english is not fool-proof, so feel free to edit and correct any spelling/grammar errors you find in there. Please, don't edit anything else than these errors.

I'll soon be adding the same kind of detailed descriptions of the other classes, as soon as I have the time and patience for it. Please, comment. ~Nih 20:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Do we really need the in-game analysis? It doesn't seem too Wiki-ish, but more on the POV side. We can say a certain class has generally higher stats and such, but we don't have to go THAT in depth. Keep it simple. :P Keero 01:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Feel free to edit or remove if if you find it necessary. I added it so the article would actually bring useful information instead of just copyed descryptions from the official site. ~Nih 18:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Necropoli

"[...]large number of dungeons across Aden called Catacombs and Necropoli that only participants in the competition can access. For one week you compete and get as many seals that you can for your side and turn most of them in. If your side wins after the week you will be given exclusive access to the Catacombs/Necropoli and the losing side will be locked out."

Is Necropoli used in plural here? If so, it should be Necropoleis, as the plural of polis is poleis. Fragrag 19:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, Necropoli is not plural. That is the actual name of the 'area'. Disinclination 16:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

"No more issues of legality..."

The article states that NC Soft released the server software; but I question the validity of this statement. Does that mean using free servers is now legal (meaning everything is free); and you won't get into any sort of trouble? Why would NC Soft let out it's server software codes? 165.196.139.22 21:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Recently C4 code has been leaked (most people say stolen) and there are now several private servers running full C4. Should this be added to the article? Also, it should be noted that most private servers are much more aggressive toward banning bots than NCSoft. Shinhan 04:24, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Korea launch date corrected

I've corrected the Korean launch date given the following reference:

http://www.ncsoft.com/eng/NCPress/List.asp?searchOption=1&searchParam=Lineage%20II%20Launches%20Commercial%20Service%20in%20Korea%20October%201

Bruce

Botting, and Other 3rd Party Programs

It would be nice if someone could write a topic on the prevelent 3rd party programs. When I left the offical server bots were running rampant and the "Secondary Market" (IE eBay, IGE, etc) was out of control with the buying and selling of ingame items for Real world money. I've started to expand the L2Walker article, but I know there was plenty of other "3rd Party enhancements". Thanks! Xaios 04:32, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

An in depth expansion of the bots article would be appreciated, I would do it myself, but I only just started playing Lineage 2, but I can already see how bots are out of control all over the starting zones. At least my server, Lionna. -pstanton

For a more in depth look at bots, some people might consider joining GameHAQs forums which have large sections on L2Walker and other bots. Shinhan 10:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Expanding

Hello everyone! I would like to begin expanding this article to go into more depth about the different aspects of Lineage II. I would appreciate feedback on this endeavor. My first contribution is the Player versus Player section. Please review and edit as needed.

Next I will begin work on a Characters section. I would like to move Races & Classes into this. Also we can include information on sub classing, Noblesses and Heroes. I would also like to post the attributes (not for individual races however) and how tattoos can affect these.

Eventually I would like to see a Geography or World section. It could give brief explanations of Aden, Elmore, and Gracia, major towns, castles, etc. It could also discuss transportation around the world map.

Finally, I think we could add an In-Game Controversy (in better words though) section. We can move botting in there. As Xaios mentioned above, it should also include the secondary market, third party enhancements, and farming. After this there could be a criticism section, because there are plenty of gripes on the official message boards.

Thank you for your massive contributions to the page. Would you mind registering? Don't forget to sign your posts using four tildes. Again, much thanks. Ladlergo 19:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I am all registered now! Thank you for your edits and I appreciate your kind welcome. I just want to make sure that my contributions do not enter into game guide or gamecruft territory. Does all look fine? Thanks again CorwinM 00:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

It looks fine so far. My rule of thumb: Does it explain the game to people who don't play it, or is it the type of thing that's only useful to people who already play the game? Explaining the hero system is good. Pasting tables of new spells is bad.

I'm currently looking over the class section. Do you have any opinions about how it's organized or the level of content? Ladlergo 01:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay thanks, I will keep that in mind.

Personally I dont like the layout of the class section, I think it looks clunky at the moment. I'm not sure of a better way to organize it though. Most of the descriptions are fine by me. A few sections ( various wizards and third-classes) do need expanding. I first started by editing small pieces in there... I'll take another look and see what I can come up with CorwinM 02:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm now thinking about creating a Gameplay heading. I would like to put in brief information on the PvE aspects, move PvP in there, and add some information on the Mini-Games. CorwinM 00:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Fan Sites

If links to other fan sites are removed (one being my site http://lineagejunkies.com) which are clearly fan sites, then all sites other then lineage2.com should be removed.

Nope. Read WP:EL. Each link should be usefull for the article in question. Adding several fan sites with mostly identical content is not usefull, and therefore most (if not all) fan sites are usually removed. Just b/c lineage2.com is official website it does not mean it has sum total of all usefull information on Lineage II. Shinhan 04:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Characters section

Sweet mother of God, who the heck wrote the Characters section? It hurts my eyes to see all of that gibberish from someone with 0 Lineage 2 experience enforced with copy/paste from the main site... Would anyone care for an effort to make all of the info there actually accurate and up-to-date? Xentronius 15:40, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

You should have seen how it was before I removed most of the plagiarism. If you want it to be better, you rewrite it. Ladlergo 02:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Best Fan site for the L2 lovers is lineage2orphus.com. You can go there and find any information. Its very cool guys! Just check it out!!!!!!

Andrisa, Gustin!

Cost

Could someone please add in how much this game costs on a regular basis, and add it to Comparison of MMORPGs as well? Thanks. Rob 01:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

AFAIK, client is free to download (there is link to FilePlanet client download from lineage2.com) and its 15$ a month. Shinhan 19:17, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Classes

This section is really bad. It reads just like as if I were to pick up a strategy guide, and this is not how an article should read. It should only be one to two sentences on what the class is and does, nothing too detailed about specific skills, weaknesses, strengths, etc. or what parties they are good in. This section makes the article way too long and uninteresting to read. SuperDT 08:25, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I concur, yet will take no action. I'll Leave someone else to do that. :P Keero 09:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Korean Open Beta

Why is there not a detailed description of the Korean open beta? --MaTrIx 10:02, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Why would there be? Is it really that notable?SuperDT 00:56, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

bad wording

"Lineage II official server has taken some actions against some private servers. "... A server does take legal action? Hahaha --Jestix 18:08, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Source missing

"Some of the private servers have been shut down by FBI and the owners of those servers have been arrested for violating copyrights."... any source of this? You know Wikipedia no original research and bla bla. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jestix (talk • contribs) 18:09, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

http://www.lineage2.com/news/news2.html, named 'FBI and NCsoft Close Down Computer Game Operation' dated November 20, 2006. It says nothing about arresting but it shows at least one server was taken down. --Mverleg 03:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

what?

"Players have accused NCsoft of allowing the black market to thrive due to the massive amount of money paid each month for "farmer" accounts. NCsoft contends that it is doing everything in its power to curb this activity."

Huh? Whats a farmer account? And again source is missing. --Jestix 18:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

A farmer account is an account belonging to someone who spends his time getting in game currency/items to sell for real life cash. --Mverleg 02:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Updation Occuring

I will be updating Lineage 2 to match that of WoW and other really stupid MMORPGs. Havoc1310 00:46, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Classes

I vote to delete this new created section because its fancruft. It goes far too much into detail than an encyclopedic article should, in contrary many "wikipedia-newbee"'s believe, its not the goal of wikipedia to have an all-embracing collection of all information available. The details of the class system is only interesting to players of Lineage II, therefore a limited authority, and therefore subject to fancruft--Jestix 15:05, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Well maybe this section can stay in an highly cut-down format, explaing just the principles of the class-system, not liniend all carreer paths out, this is the job of Lineage II devoted fan-sites (or a Lineage_ii devoted Wiki)--Jestix 15:07, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Even though I feel like slapping the top person, how does it now taste. Havoc1310 22:20, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

first of all (here) links are very bad style. see w3c about this. second to write an innerwiki link as extern link is bad style. Third when I say unsuitable for wikipedia, I don't mean "move it to another page on wikipedia". Move it to some "Lineage II wiki" if you please, where fancruft is explicitly wanted, but not here. Nevertheless since you created a new article, premature in the discussion, trying to setting for accomplished facts, this gives us the chance to make a standard wikipedia article for deletion quest, and get the wikipedia community decide over this in a standard process. --Jestix 22:27, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Kamael reference

http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74310 --Mverleg 03:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Copyright violations

A lot of text on this page is copyright violation! [1] e.g. "Wolves display great agility. Since it tends to have low physical strength, its owner should raise it with care while the pet is of a low level so that it will not die." you find it on lineage2.com and this goes on and on. Will now delete all purposed copyright violations, wikipedia has a zero tolerance on this! --Jestix 17:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Please help to spot other copyright violations, some of authors seem to have been either careless, uniminative or ignorant by copy/pasting so much. Also creditworthiness of wikipedia is at stake. --Jestix 17:39, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Lineage 2 vs Lineage II

Why when I first come to the site am I on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineage_2 which sometimes has vandalism at the bottom, but when I try to edit, or click the article tab I am moved to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineage_II ?? Xelliz 15:25, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Lineage 2 is only a redirect and not a separate page. Shinhan 11:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

14 million subscribers

14 million players. This was the official figure in a press release, at this source: http://www.plaync.com/us/news/2006/04/ncsoft_celebrat_1.html

Hence, despite World of WarCraft's disgustingly FALSE claim to fame, Lineage II is THE largest MMO, in terms of fanbase, of all time. --Zenoseiya 20:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, the number you're quoting is the the size of their "Customer reach" which is actually being reported more recently at 50 million. According to NCSoft, Lineage 2 has a paltry 610918 users during March 2007. which, if you're wondering, is less than 7.5% of the number of WoW subscribers. McKay 22:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I double-checked McKay's numbers against NCSoft's published estimates report, and confirmed there were only about 1 million active logins during the month of March (we disagree on that number -- 610K vs 1 million -- but there are certainly not the 14 million subscribers mentioned on NCSoft's web site). FeralDruid 17:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Rechecking, I get 610918 users for March 2007 in Lineage II. Perhaps you were looking at the numbers for lineage 1? Which I show as being 962638 users for the month of march 2007? The first time I looked at the quarterly report, I saw lineage 1 first, and made that same mistake. McKay 18:50, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Reference number 4 atm

"^ http://lineage2.com/news/news.html#a007783". Thanks to the awkward news system in lineage2.com, the actual piece of news to be referred to is long gone, link points to irrelevant page (news page home). It's rather hard to find official sources for citing, and that's the reason why. There's no long-term news archive. Same for ref # 8. 91.76.251.17 23:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Shot00011.jpg

Image:Shot00011.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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I added a fair use rationale for this page. McKay 16:27, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

CT updates

I've made some slight changes to the CT information, including some pet changes. - bg Bwgreen 16:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Removal of bug section

Re: this edit - "20:34, 29 May 2007 Mckaysalisbury (Talk | contribs) (25,482 bytes) (Removed bug section. Lets keep it attributable. Forum posts are not reliable sources.)"

I agree with neither the removal nor motives for that. Wikipedia does not serve for the purpose of promotion of the games, thus one shouldn't throw away developers' blunders, mistakes and hypocrisy.

How come the forums are not reliable sources is beyond me. Someone would deny that hacks of PTS servers did take place? If speculations on the culprit's actions, intentions and identity are unneeded, remove them, but why cut out the whole section? You don't suppose that an official source for that kind of information would be out there? Like NC Soft would keep a news archive to link to? There are two links missing their source akready because lineage2.com trashes the news too old.

It is quite reasonable for NC Soft to try and forget all that. It can't be influenced not to. What source related to the game is left then? Community. Official forums are heavily moderated and old threads are purged, too. There were and are no sources available more reliable than what I provided. They are open, they're from large and active communities. On the other hand, I didn't provide links for exploits clarification as that is a shady kind of sites devoted to them. I believed linking to those would have violated one ru!le or another and didn't research.

I'd say, rework that part as you see fit with your standards and better english rather than delete it. That's what is best for Wikipedia article. 85.141.247.219 09:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Shot00011.jpg

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BetacommandBot 01:11, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

---

Playing Lineage II. It's Thur Aug 9, 2007 at 19:37 in Santiago(City approx 10 minutes drive NE of Cordon),Isabela(Province approx 8 hrs drive NE of Manila,Metro Manila),Philippines. of Manila,Metro Manila),Philippines. My site is at http://www.michaelmanalolazo.winnerbb.net Thanks.

Can we make this article less useless?

I looked this up on Wikipedia because I was curious about the game and if I would be interested in playing it, but this article has told me NOTHING. It has a vague outline and a few screenshots, whoopee. Lineage 2 is supposed to be the largest MMO ever, but this article just seems like a drawn-out stub to me. This article is dry and it makes Lineage seem un-fantastic and trivial. It doesn't even have a section on gameplay mechanics or critical reception, which are key parts of most other video game articles. I'm not going to rant on about it, but this article needs a do-over. Somebody do this game justice. --Marshmello 19:33, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

This is the problem of many wikipedia articles in this sections. They are written from heaviliy involded for heavily involved. Often going over details any "normal" person couldn't interest at all, but absouletly missing to explain the simple "what is it, what does it" parts... as it is so self evident for this people, they miss to say it. --Jestix 13:47, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Many attempts to clean and correct this has been done but there are people who reverts it back to the far back edit. It is sad how these people wants to convery the wrong information for the game. --- Laibcoms (talk | Contribs) 19:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Lock edit

Can we please lock the editting from anonymous users? There has been edits that are pretty obvious to be vandalism. Just a suggestion. --- Laibcoms (talk | Contribs) 14:33, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

kamael

nobody knows when kamael will be released in america?--Srmagnetismo 17:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Rumours has it that end of the year 2007. --- Laibcoms (talk | Contribs) 17:12, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lineage ii - rune castle qjpreviewth.jpg

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BetacommandBot 05:17, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Shot00001.jpg

Image:Shot00001.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lineage2hero.jpg

Image:Lineage2hero.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:53, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

This page is horrible. It needs to be deleted, and redone. There is nothing of importance on this page that will help inform readers about what this game is truly about. Delete and redo, please. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.134.234 (talk) 01:46, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I suggest that, that this article needs to be redone, translating the information of the spanish article, i can help. --Srmagnetismo (talk) 04:16, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

The page states the existance of a bembex pet - is there any substantial base for? --77.178.158.71 (talk) 20:58, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Hellbound

New 'throne' for L2 is released (the one that should come after '3.2.2 1st Throne: The Kamael': Hellbound. does anyone have anything useful to write about it? As it's the only update without any info about it now... 82.169.69.149 (talk) 18:48, 30 April 2008 (UTC)