Talk:Warcraft

I'm glad this page has started growing. I posted a map, and I'll write short summaries of the continents and etc. UED77 19:07, 2004 Jul 6 (UTC)

Anyone else find it weird that Blizzard isn't mentioned anywhere in this article?--Mullon 01:55, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Influences to the Games & Derived from the Games

I think it's important to note that Warcraft & Starcraft derived a lot of the army styles, tactics, abilities, from Warhammer & W40k. The over-bulked deformed graphics of the humans and orcs is straight from the WH world. Even the way combat was resolved is very similar to the WH system (except the values were increased).

WC I/II/III & SC are Blizzards interpretation of a miniature-based strat/tact game in real-time.

What other influences are there?

Wasn't WC the first one to introduce the multi-click "annoyance" responses from units? Orc 6th click: "Will you stop touching MEEEEEE!!!!!"

--Duemellon 17:42, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There are also some D&D influences, especially in WC3. Some magic items are taken straight from the Dungeon Master's Guide. Ausir 01:51, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure of the details but I understand that Warcraft: Orcs v Humans was initially meant to be a Warhammer game, but the deal was aborted and Blizzard fixed it up to look like something more original. I can't find any sources on this, but if I locate anything I'll add this. Since WAR is being released shortly (or has it already?) the whole "X ripped off Y" thing is getting really out of hand. Thee darcy (talk) 16:22, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Capitalization of the C

Minor point, but there seems to be some inconsistency on the various WarCraft pages as to whether or not the C should be capitalized. See for example, the links to the games at the bottom of the WarCraft II entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warcraft_II the StarCraft links all have capital C's but the WarCrafts don't. As far as I know, Blizzard released the games with capital C's. User:24.103.176.173

There is no confusion. Warcraft is released with a lowercase c. StarCraft has a capital C. This is confirmed on Blizzard's website. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 01:29, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

This is old, but I will respond for anyone else. WarCraft and WarCraft Adventures were both officially spelt with a capital C, but when Warcraft 2 was released they stopped using it. - User:UnlimitedAccess

Small discrepency

I have a few questions about this article. One, is there any proof that Goblins originated on Draenor? It is clear that Goblins now live wholly in Azeroth, on the island of Undermine primarily but can be found other places. Secondly, I beleive that Draenor was once a temprate zone, but since the Dark Portal messed things up, I think now it's a barren red rocky zone. If anyone can find answers and proof, post back here. Omni gamer 21:48, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't remember the origins of goblins exactly, but for your other question: Draenor was always referred to as the Red World, whatever that might mean exactly. See map of Draenor in WC2 manual (or at least WC2BNE). The ingame tileset sure seemed pretty harsh from WC2:BTDP. It was relatively barren and red. The only vegetation seemed to be giant tree-like mushrooms, from which I deduce that the soil is fertile. But let's not forget that Draenor might not only include the Hellfire peninsula and lands in its immediate vicinity. Perhaps Draenor does have climate zones, we just have no knowledge of them. However, now that the portals have shattered it, only pieces of the Hellfire peninsula remain, which is pretty much a desert, altho the mushrooms do show up occasionally. UED77 06:00, 2004 Dec 19 (UTC)

I'm going to check my game manuals from WCII when I get home, but I'm pretty sure that the goblins, like the trolls, were native to Azeroth and joined up with the Horde because 1) General demi-human predjudice against greenskins 2) They thought the horde would win. Also, Draenor has it's own article, which is more complete than the section here. I will probably merge the articles when i get a chance. Jaxal1 18:18, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't think any of the literature addresses it, but within WoW, I have read a bood that clearly stated that Draenor used to be a world with grassy plains - Mulgore comes to mind in the description. If anyone wants to check, I am pretty certain the book was found in Scholomance very early on. It claimed that the orc's demon magic TURNED the planet nasty. The soil may or may not have been red, but they had grass. theflyingorc 22:16, 07 Aug 2005 (UTC)

theflyingorc is right. Paraphrased from the worldofwarcraft.com site's lore pages:

Home to the shamanistic, clan-based orcs and the peaceful draenei, Draenor was as idyllic as it was vast. The noble orc clans roamed the open prairies and hunted for sport, while the inquisitive draenei built crude cities within the world's towering cliffs and peaks.

Kil'jaeden the Deceiver enthralled the elder orc shaman, Ner'zhul. Using the cunning shaman as his conduit, the demon spread battle lust and savagery throughout the orc clans. Before long, the spiritual race was transformed into a bloodthirsty people. Kil'jaeden then urged Ner'zhul and his people to take the last step: to give themselves over entirely to the pursuit of death and war.

Frustrated by Ner'zhul's resistance, Kil'jaeden searched for another orc who would deliver his people into the Legion's hands. The clever demonlord finally found the willing disciple he sought - Ner'zhul's ambitious apprentice, Gul'dan. Kil'jaeden promised Gul'dan untold power in exchange for his utter obedience. The young orc became an avid student of demonic magic and developed into the most powerful mortal warlock in history. He taught other young orcs the arcane arts and strove to eradicate the orcs' shamanistic traditions. Gul'dan showed a new brand of magic to his brethren, a terrible new power that reeked of doom.

As more and more orcs began to wield warlock magics, the gentle fields and streams of Draenor began to blacken and fade. Over time, the vast prairies the orcs had called home for generations withered away, leaving only red barren soil. The demon energies were slowly killing the world.

Far, far later, after the epic invasions of warcraft one and two, and in the warcraft 2 expansion:

Ner'zhul finally opened his portals to other worlds, but he did not foresee the terrible price he would pay. The portals' tremendous energies began to tear the very fabric of Draenor apart.

Ner'zhul and his loyal Shadowmoon clan passed through the largest of the newly created portals, as massive volcanic eruptions began to break Draenor's continents apart. The burning seas rose up and roiled the shattered landscape as the tortured world was finally consumed in a massive, apocalyptic explosion.

Even later, after the invasion of warcraft 3 and in the warcraft 3 expansion:

Knowing that Kil'jaeden would not be pleased with his failure to destroy the Frozen Throne, Illidan fled to the barren dimension known as Outland: the last remnants of Draenor, the orcs' former homeworld.

Outland is a location in WoW, very bleak. Basically, it went from paradise to red, dying wasteland to blasted, barely-there wasteland. LieAfterLie (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Map of Azeroth

I think the map of Azeroth overlaid over Earth looks nice. However, is there any evidence at all that Azeroth has the same size as Earth? As far as I know, there is none; indeed, from World of WarCraft, it seems much, much smaller than Earth. Therefore, the map is misleading. So if no one can provide evidence that Azeroth is the same size as Earth, I am going to remove that map in a few days. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 01:36, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

I was the one who originally created this map, but I took it down not soon after, because of the same reason. Actually I was surprised as I saw it reappear on this page. Unfortunately, there is no information whatsoever about the size of Planet Azeroth, except what the actual gameplay of World of Warcraft suggests. And while I see that the game should be treated as canon (official source), it should be kept in mind that Azeroth seems smaller because the technology is not yet available to design a virtual world the size of an entire planet ;) But this taken with the discrepancies between climates at what are thought to be same latitudes lead to two possible conclusions: Either all the maps of Azeroth that were ever published are deliberately inaccurate in a sense, much like colonial-age maps of Earth, or the laws that govern our world simply do not apply in Azeroth. Yes, I know I'm taking this just a little bit too seriously, but that's what it boils down to. I will take the map down once again. I value the intensions of the unknown contributor who put it up, but since there is no fact behind it, it has to go. UED77 06:00, 2004 Dec 19 (UTC)

Garona

File:Garona-warcraftiii-image.jpg

Garona?

Blizzard before they released Warcraft III, released a whole stack of promotional images, one of them was this one to the right. A lot of people online have said this is an image of Garona but I cant get any confirmation of that, does anyone know whether it's just a random female Orc or really is Garona? Thanks - UnlimitedAccess 23:28, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

---

The link is 404 now. Also there used to be a Garona in World of Warcraft beta, albeit short lived. Pics? ~PG

Draenor "humans"

Apparently Garona was changed to half-Draenei/half-Orc. So technically, since she's not half-human, there shouldn't be any humans on Draenor. It was confirmed by Caydiem on WoW forums.

While some say that Garona was changed to half Draenei half orc, my friend asked Metzen about this and Metzen said that we'll still need to find out. Seeing as Metzen has greater authority than Caydiem, we can guess that her race is still unknown. Mecheon --144.137.44.60 01:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Tabletop games

World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game is the successor to the Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game series (essentially it's version 2.0) thus I removed refernces to WC:RPG, since WoW:RPG is backwards compatible. As for Warcraft: the Board Game and World of Warcraft: the Board Game, they are two separate games, as shown here:

Warcraft: the Board Game

World of Warcraft: the Board Game --Kaziel 19:50, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Corrupted Blood

This article has been added to the AfD, please go to Articles for deletion/Corrupted Blood and give your vote on the subject. Thank you. Havok (T/C/c) 22:09, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Universe vs. universe

I think it should be Warcraft universe and not Warcraft Universe (as the main article that is, seeing as I know it redirects). Any thoughts? Havok (T/C/c) 07:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused

Is WoWWiki dedicated only to World of Warcraft or Warcraft in general? Pece Kocovski 06:36, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Generally, it's just WoW-related (hence the name), but some general Warcraft info is there as well. RobertM525 01:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

So is Wiki better for Warcraft info or Is WoWWiki better? Pece Kocovski 02:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

That is like comparing apples to oranges. I think Wikipedia has less "bias" and more "encyclopedic" content, while WoW Wiki is more of a strategy guide. They are both good in their own way. Havok (T/C/c) 06:10, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

WoWWiki is largely a strategy guide for the MMORPG, however, their "lore" section, infomation from written sources and the games, is quite extensive, and goes into deeper detail than the information here. --Ragestorm 02:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

The About WoWWiki page (on WoWWiki) should answer this question quite well now :) It covers all of Warcraft now and, as Ragestorm says, it's more in-depth than wikipedia. I would disagree with the 'bias' comment, especially these days. Kirkburn 04:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Locations in WoW universe

Just a note to watch out for. Someone appears to have it out for the location pages, as earlier he targeted almost all of them for deletion, under the definition of "Game Guide." These articles are unsourced, and a few of them are scant on information. But for the most part, I believe large portions of these articles constitute an encyclopedic reference to the *mythology* behind the geography of warcraft, not a playing guide. Based on that, I reverted the tags, but be aware that they may soon be targetted for a deletion discussion. --Josh

Not just the locations pages. Wikipedia is a hostile place for World of Warcraft in general. See WoWWiki and don't waste your time here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.175.18.130 (talk) 19:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Troll links

The troll pages have been merged into one page, detailing all of the different subsets. The links here have been updated to reflect this.

09:37, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Alterac Valley (prod) 09:37, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Kirin Tor (prod) 09:37, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Dalaran (prod) 09:36, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Caer Darrow (prod) 09:36, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) The Scarlet Monastery (prod) (top) 09:36, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Undercity (prod) 09:35, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Khaz Modan (prod) 09:35, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Gnomeregan (prod) 09:35, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Azeroth (world) (prod) 09:34, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Ironforge (prod) 09:33, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Quel'Thalas (prod) 09:33, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Azeroth (kingdom) (prod) 09:33, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Dark Portal (prod) 09:32, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Molten Core (prod) (top) 09:32, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Stormwind (prod) 09:31, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) The Sunken Temple (prod) 09:31, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Deadmines (prod) 09:31, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Blackfathom Deeps (prod) 09:30, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Azuremyst Isles (Redirect to Locations_in_the_Warcraft_Universe - there's way more info on this location there) (top) 09:28, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Orgrimmar (prod) 09:27, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Thunder Bluff (prod) 09:27, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Darnassus (prod) 09:26, 7 July 2006 (hist) (diff) Northrend (prod)

In universe writing

This article could be good, if it was not written in an in-universe style. I'd like to correct it, but English is not my first language and I would do mistakes/inelegant sentences. There is not much to change. "In Warcraft 2, Draenor is descripted as..." or "The manual of Beyond the Dark Portal says that Azeroth..." etc etc... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.70.252.111 (talk) 12:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

I think that the in-universe writing contributes to the understandability and simplicity and detail of the universe article. It eliminates the need for repetitive and space-consuming notations like you refer to. After all, that's what citations are for, right? Warcraft is a fictional universe with a number of role-playing elements. In-universe writing is the perfect way to depict most EU's. LieAfterLie (talk) 04:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

whitespace

There is whitespace after "Azeroth" in IE7. Can someone fix it? --71.121.159.122 06:34, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

This article is a mess

Looking at the Geography section here isn't very nice on the eyes, the squashed text between the Contents and "Warcraft Universe" especially. Otherwise this is just full of meaningless lists which could be reorganised into informative paragraphs better describing the geography and locations of the listed items.

The list of Cities and Towns is pretty random also, Darrowshire is a minor city but all the other small towns are ommited? Much of the rest of the article is similar to this with random places and races ommited. I think many of these lists can be combined.

I'd really like to rewrite the geography section, mainly because I spent alot of time playing world of warcraft and i was always interested in the lore/geography of the game.

However what do i put as my sources? Can i just say "The following games and their instruction manuals: World of Warcraft, Warcraft 1..." and so on? I'm also worried about Origonal Reasearch.

Anyway i guess i'll make a test edit somewhere and see what people think :)

Warhammer, D&D, and Warcraft

I believe that it should have been commented that many stuff of the Warcraft universe has been taken from both Warhammer and several D&D settings (in fact, it's said that Blizzard offered the first Warcraft game to Games Workshop as a game based on the Warhammer universe. Basically, they (GW) said "no" and we know what happened after. Also, in the preface of the Warcraft RPG manual of monsters -the one of the first RPG game, not the one based on WoW- Metzen recognizes they were heavy D&D players and that they took elements of there). Examples: the dwarven riflemen, who existed before in Warhammer, the high elves who seem to have been inspired by their Warhammer equivalent, creatures like the gnolls, and winks (Silvermoon exists also in "Forgotten Realms", the name "Sylvanas" probably was derived from Dragonlance's Sylvanesti, the interesting similarities between night elves and Dragonlance's Kalinesti, and other examples). The Warcraft setting is quite nice and i like it (if not, i'd haven't bought the RPG), but it's far from being original (PS: sorry for having to re-edite so many times my comment, but i'm a newbie).

-Does it really matter wether it is original or not? Anyway a few of those things like Gnolls were from real world legends not just from other games - Joeking16 16:17, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I assume any word or name starting with "Syvlan" ultimately originates with the Latin Sylvus. A lot of the elements in both these games from AD&D, and before that Tolkien, and various myths, legends & folktales before that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thee darcy (talk • contribs) 16:26, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Major rewrite upcoming

I am working on majorly rewriting this page to bring it more in line with the world as presented currently in World of Warcraft and to flesh out the sub categories and give them information as well as lists. Kestrana 19:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

K'aresh

Just added K'aresh to the known planets in the Warcraft Universe since it was not only mentioned in several different conversations, it is also related to a majority of the Ethereal storyline which makes K'aresh a more notable place as it is than, say, Xoroth. - Russ

What happened to Organizations in the Warcraft universe

I noticed that the article "Organizations in the Warcraft universe" was there any perticular reason for this? Whoops forgot to sign my post. Joeking16 15:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Propose creating article Warcraft (series)

There needs to be an article covering all of Warcraft. -- Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

I would of thought that this page should cover all of Warcraft, the games, the books and everything else. Joeking16 (talk) 10:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

From the way this article is written, it seems as if this article was intended to be about the fictional universe in which Warcraft is set, not the franchise that is Warcraft.

So what do people think? Make this article into the franchise article with a section for the story, or make a separate article called the Warcraft series to cover the franchise? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 05:32, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Since this article is currently meant to about the fictional universe, there doesn't seem to be any major reason not to keep it that way. Judge is right that a series article would be a good idea. Might as well create it and see how it and this one turn out after a while. If one or neither are not doing well, we can simply merge them together down the road. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 16:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC))

I swear there used to be a series article.... I really don't understand what happened to all this stuff. See my section below. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LieAfterLie (talk • contribs) 04:41, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge Quel'Thalas here

The Quel'Thalas article is currently up for deletion, and we're trying to find an appropriate place to selectively merge its more notable content to. Any thoughts? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 16:12, 27 November 2007 (UTC))

Warcraft being a Warhammer game

Is there any evidence of Gamesworkshop ever talk to Blizzard about a game? I have seen this claim many times but nobody ever provided any proof. The claim is made dubious by the fact that there seems to be many differnet varients of it.Chovin (talk) 03:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

What happened to all the Warcraft Extended Universe articles?

I remember there being a very extensive network of Warcraft EU articles. Where did they all go?? I know there were tons of accurate articles on Warcraft, lists of races, of characters, of everything, but now I can't find any of it. I can't find any deletion logs either. And now I'm finding that the only remaining article on the Warcraft EU is short and has errors as obvious and disheartening as stating that Azeroth is a planet of the Twisting Nether (which is a dimensionless realm serving solely as the birthplace and home of all original evil in Warcraft). Where did it all go? Can someone point me in the right direction? I type in Illidan or Twisting Nether and get nothing, not even redirects. Search only pulls up this page and the articles on the games themselves. Absolutely nothing remains of the immense and respectable resource of Warcraft Universe articles. There used to be a compendium of information on Warcraft worlds and minute details and side-plots and character information and history and lore. Now the entire breadth and scope of the extensive Warcraft Universe on Wikipedia is gone. There used to be obscure facts and backgrounds I could only find on Wikipedia and very rarely elsewhere. There's even a large collection of broken links left behind in the articles on the games themselves, look. Almost all of the non-broken links are just redirects to this pathetic page. Try Draenor. My last memory of an article is a decently long and detailed one on the Twisting Nether being deleted because it was "dark and scary." What happened to them all? They most definitely did NOT converge. It's all just disappeared.

There was an article that must have been at least 10 printed pages on the races of Warcraft alone, including the more obscure races like the Satyr and Draenei, with a picture and extensive section on each. (Draenei were obscure at the time, existing only in minor plot, they didn't make any game appearances until WoW.) Now I find nothing but a virtually non-existent 140-word section on races. It doesn't begin to compare.

Can someone tell me what happened? Have I just lost my mind? Was there some epic deletion craze resulting from a change in rules? Was there some malfunction of Wikipedia servers? This seems unlikely, they'd seemingly converge and are seemingly immune to corruption considering modern fall backs. I believe I missed something big.

No I'm not thinking of wowwiki, this was definitely here before World of Warcraft. LieAfterLie (talk) 04:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

seriously, i have the same issue, i cant find any old pictures, photos and anything else, but ive gone to anime info, and nothings been changed in months. WTF happened to WoW? Grimreape513 (talk) 20:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

No LieAfterLie, you're not going mad I too have found the same thing happening and am quite disheartened by it. The whole Warcraft Universe (minus this very poorly done page) appears to be gone with no logs to tell the tale or revert back to.

A shame really, I too have loved coming to the Wikipedia for quick references to virtually every subject and Warcraft was definitely one of them.

I'm sure a solution will present itself and we can get back to reading.

~Alecterum~ Alecterum (talk) 07:30, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Yup, they were all removed for non-notability in the real world (though that's debatable for certain characters), and the AFDs were more successful due to the existence of WoWWiki. Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Deletion Archive has some links. One silly thing that occured is that several were removed on the basis of the List of characters existing, which then itself got removed. However, such is the way of the world. Come to WoWWiki :) Kirkburn (talk) 21:52, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll come to WoWWiki if you do something about certain users (including at least one administrator) whose opinion of their own insight far exceeds the reality. There seems to be an actual resistance to quality control there. —Qit el-Remel (talk) 19:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

All the articles were AFDed by the user IAmSasori. He's undertaken some sort of purge against fancruft though as a self-proclaimed Naruto-fanboy he has not touched the many Naruto articles. Though I'm not a Warcraft fan, I realize the series' contribution to the fantasy genre (such as a re-imagining of orcs, night elves and so forth). My suggestion is that the articles are rebuilt using information from WoWWiki. However you should avoid dwelling on game-elements and instead focus on story elements.(Demigod Ron (talk) 05:30, 17 December 2007 (UTC))

One very stupid thing I saw that came up on the AFDs was people saying there was a lack of citable sources ... apparently they didn't find any of the stuff listed on wowwiki:WoWWiki:Book citation index (not that that helps real world notability). Kirkburn (talk) 10:02, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

If you know why they were deleted then you can bring them back, right? The articles also exist on Answers.com although that may not be very helpful except as a reference. (Demigod Ron (talk) 17:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC))

The articles on Answers.com are not the same content and are nearly as poor as the material at WoWWiki. —Qit el-Remel (talk) 19:08, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't have the will to bring them back, nor is it likely to happen, as everyone will just point to WoWWiki which has much better articles on the topics anyway. Kirkburn (talk) 18:22, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually, WoWWiki's articles are nowhere near comparing to the ones here that were deleted. There may be some mismanagement and frivolous editing at Wikipedia, but it's much worse at WoWWiki. (I could name names...but I won't.)

IMHO, IAmSasori needs to learn about a little thing called consistency. If fancruft is to go untouched elsewhere, the articles should be brought back. —Qit el-Remel (talk) 01:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand, why deleting good articles is good for wikipedia. There may be a WowWiki, but how should I find it if I don't know about it? Search wikipedia so hard, that I find this discussion? I've found it by accident. Again - what is fancruft? I'm not native English speaker, but from what I can find cruft is something of poor quality, combined with fan - then a poor quality page created by fans, relevant only to a small group of people? I can agree that such pages may be not needed, but extended warcraft pages were really good source of information, and this is what an encyclopaedia should be, doesn't it? If I'm mistaken, then please someone explain to me, why such articles are deleted. Ggaaron (talk) 10:39, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Ggaaron said: "I don't understand, why deleting good articles is good for wikipedia."

That makes two of us. (And yes, that is the proper definition of "fancruft"—poor-quality material which is only of any interest to fans. The Warcraft material could have used some pruning, but it was much more in the domain of "good articles" than that of "fancruft.")

Apparently, one guy (who dismisses almost everything Warcraft-related as "non-notable fancruft," but mysteriously doesn't seem to mind all of the Narutopedia-duplicate material on this site) started a bunch of Warcraft AfDs. And somehow, almost all of them managed to go through—likely because people who might have otherwise countered them (myself included) simply weren't aware that anything was going on.

Of course, if some administrator could send me the page sources, I'd be more than happy to cherry-pick, consolidate, and re-build the material. —Qit el-Remel (talk) 01:04, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Note to mention I disagree with Qit el-Remel's opinion of WoWWiki, but have moved that part of the discussion to a more relevant talk page. Kirkburn (talk) 09:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard of Naruto except here in this Talk page. Can I create AfDs specifying WP:NOTE? - Denimadept (talk) 19:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

It'd make just as much sense. —Qit el-Remel (talk • contribs) 02:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't really want to stoop to that level. - Denimadept (talk) 21:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I said that it'd make just as much sense, not that it'd actually be a good idea.  ;) —Qit el-Remel (talk • contribs) 15:29, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Where to find the old World of Warcraft pictures.

Hey, im just wondering, since i used to use the pictures on the WoW section alot, are they still IN wikipedia anymore, or are they completely removed, because i could use them right now.Grimreape513 (talk) 20:01, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Opinion: the new world of warcraft page is a mess.

Ok, the links that go FROM the page are useless, like when you click undead and trolls, it links to jrr tolkien and D&D, which is completely useless when your trying to find out information about the race and game. The entire page has become a complete mess, and while ive browsed through some other things, ive noticed that a couple of articles havent been edited in years, like D&D, Tolkien, Naruto, and a bunch of other anime crud. All the World of Warcraft page has now is a bunch of links, and misguided information. Is there anyway we can bring some old stuff back? World of Warcraft was one of the few reasons i even came to wikipedia, excluding lovecraft and the update of video games and movies. I like the old format better than i did this one we have now, with i repeat, MISGUIDED LINKS and links that do not go anywhere.Grimreape513 (talk) 20:09, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Look above your first post; there's already discussion on that very subject.

Yes, there should be some consistency as to how fancruft is handled. But it seems there really isn't, and that there's little to no effort to establish any. —Qit el-Remel (talk) 06:13, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Extended Links cleanup

I've removed the link to WarcraftAdvisor.com from Extended links, added 04:30, 9 October 2007 from IP 70.137.151.239. Lookinng at all submissions from that IP indicates purely adding vaguely related sites to the topic in question. I'm not sure if it needs any further investigation, but I think it's surplus to requirements.

Any thoughts? Gazimoff (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Go to www.wowwiki.com

This article sucks since it got shredded by Mr. IAmGay (I mean, 'Sasori') and WoWWiki is so much better. PLEASE go there and check it out. Btw my username there is 'Wakata'

Enjoy! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.120.61 (talk) 00:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

There is a taskforce working on redeveloping Warcraft-related articles. You can help out at WP:VG/WC. The taskforce is dedicated to developing concise and encyclopaedic articles on Warcraft backed up with reliable sources. Feel free to drop by and help out! Gazimoff ^Write_Read 00:08, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Please don't use "gay" as an insult; it just makes you sound ignorant. And the superiority of WoWWiki is debatable. —Qit el-Remel (talk • contribs) 11:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

From what I can tell the WP:VG/WC is laser focused on World of Warcraft and seems to be leaving out Warcraft stuff before that and other non-WoW lore out of their work. Also it seems to be not much talk and even less action. So basically WP:VG/WC is mostly worthless. Also, Qitremel seems to make several disparaging remarks about WoWWiki without a single concrete piece of evidence to back up libelous remarks. --Intentionally unsigned — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.175.18.130 (talk • contribs) 02:15, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Reastablishing Articles.

We need to reastablish articles that where deleted, the new universe page is horrible, alot of good information god deleted and I can't find it anywhere. Years of work poof because one narutard had to decide "Well I hate warcraft so hah!"

Wonder if he is the one behind the massive merge with Starcraft too.Ripster40 (talk) 01:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed; that guy's definition of "non-notable" appears to be "not my fandom." As to whether or not he's responsible for the Starcraft merge, it's easy enough to look it up.

Supposedly, the admins have the deleted material archived somewhere. However, I've asked for it a few times, to no avail. —Qit el-Remel (talk • contribs) 15:26, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

The deleted did alot of damage, alot. Information that was sourced got thrown away and just did not appear, also when I try to look up Thrall I get a link to WoWwiki. They deleted the Thrall page, now I'm not happy.Ripster40 (talk) 20:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Forsaken, undead, blood elf

Why are the forsaken mentioned as being playable? In terms, they are just undead. The only difference is Sylvanas, the Dark Ranger. The rest of the units and heroes available to the forsaken are the same as normal Undead. Now if the availability of a Dark Ranger makes it a playable faction, the naga should be a playable faction as well. I don't see them anywhere. The same for the blood elfs, what is the actual difference between them and the high elfs? Only in name they are different. Mallerd (talk) 21:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmmm... cos they are playable in World of Warcraft? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.80.140 (talk) 20:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Yup, someone has been living under a rock. Forsaken are the undead playable race in World of Warcraft. --Intentionally unsigned —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.175.18.130 (talk) 00:11, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Refrences to real life

I'd like to start by apologizing if this is not the right forum to point this out, however, I was unsure whether or not posting it elsewhere would draw the attention of those most involved with the editing of this particular page. I noticed that in two seperate sections, in-game races were compared to real life cultures based solely on infrences made by individuals. The most prominent of which being, the claim that both the Humans and Night Elves are Gaelic, or otherwise modeled thereafter. I will, of course, spare you the details of my own observations.Now, I undersand that comparing any of the races to those that exist in real life is going to be completely subjective without Blizzard itself stepping in to admit what is based on whom, but I feel that I must object to two seperate races being catagorized as the same or similar because they fit a more medival mold than the others. Thank you (K1ngjab (talk) 13:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC))

This is not a forum, it's a talkpage to discuss article improvement. As such you posted in the right place. The passages you deleted constitute original research and probably POV as well which is against Wikipedia's guidelines. Good catch.--Fogeltje (talk) 14:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Playable races?

should these really be included? i mean, right now, the only ones listed are the races playable in WoW. and there are many other races that are playable in other games in the warcraft series. if this were to be a complete list, it would be huge. thats why i suggest that it just be deleted. --Late Leo (talk) 00:53, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

All the main races playable in all the games are listed, even War 1-3. Your point is a good one though; the section could be excised in favor of a paragraph to three on all the races (cited!), with the main eight in World of Warcraft relocated to gameplay of World of Warcraft, or possibly to Races of World of Warcraft or some such. Just a couple thoughts on it. --Izno (talk) 03:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Also since this is a Warcraft universe page rather than a world of warcraft page, the races shouldn't be categorized into Alliance vs. Horde because that is mainly a WoW invention, besides the horde in WC2 and the horde in World of Warcraft are completely different. Tigerhk3 (talk) 15:07, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Tigerhk3 has a great point. What originally drew me here to comment, though, was the omission of the Undead Scourge as a playable race. They were most definitely playable in WC3. Why are the races divided up as if World of Warcraft is the only game in the series? Unicycle77 (talk) 21:40, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I definately agree. This is the Warcraft universe page not the World of Warcraft. I suggest just creting an entire page for the various races in the Warcraft universe. There is definatley plenty of info to create an entire page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.53.196.247 (talk) 20:45, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

missing races

you only listed WoW playable races, what about Forest (AMANI!!!) Trolls, Goblins, and Ogres? warcraft (the series) is not limited to just WoW, theres three RTS games before it, one is called warcraft: orcs and humans, another is called, warcraft ii: tides of darkness, and another one some people know about is called warcraft 3: reign of chaos I dont know if you guys heard about these games but some of them were very popular in their time and they actually take place in the same unvierse and few many know it but theres actually some similarities between these three games and the world of warcraft game such as 1) they take place in the same world and 2) they have the same races 3) also the same people, and history 4) developed by the same company this isnt like a bootleg thing where bootleggers just made these three games based on a game that didnt come out yet it is actually blizzard (not activision blizzard) who made these three games and they made them before world of warcraft not as a lead-in but actually just to make the games they arent like prequals or anything so actually this article should be a little more broad because its not world of warcraft (series) its actually warcraft (series) so that should encompass more than just world of warcraft so I think that it should list more things and not even just races but theres other things too also possibly its maybe plausible that you could just remove this section completely because i think it should be on the world of warcraft article and not here at all because this is a world of warcraft section and not a section that references all of the races from the three previous games, warcraft: humans and orcs, warcraft ii: tides of chaos, and warcraft III: runes of darkness, as well as the world of warcraft popular online mmorpg role-playing game so it should be probably moved to that article okay? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.101.33.94 (talk) 04:03, 30 August 2008 (UTC) i apologiez about this page comment i did not realize there was another of these post comments above my cell there is in fact, if you check, another comment and discussion between more than four-five individuals about this very matter, and they discuss this matter very thoroughly and agree on the matter that this is not a world of warcraft page and that theres more than one game in this series. in fact, if you look up the definition of "series" on dictionary.com you will find that it is an old african word which means "flowing river", now the ancient africans used to call alot of people a flowing river because like a river (of water), you cannot get alot of people to stop (I suppose you could like stun them all but this is not something that you could do in ancient africa) so a series has to be at least a bunch of people or not people but rather like maybe some books or even a bunch of games, like we see in this article on wikipedia. it has four games in the series, warcraft 1: tides of war, warcraft 2: darkness falls, warcraft 3: the frozen reign and world of warcraft: the burning kruesade, now if you check, these first three games are in fact in the series and their playable races are not noted in this section so I think this section should be moved to the world of warcraft article as opposed to this article which is in fact about all four games in the series as a whole, also i apologize that i didnt sign my last comment i had to rush out of the house to get to work now i am at work making this comment so ih have to get bnack to work —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.101.33.94 (talk) 04:15, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

tHE poster above me has a point... it is obvious wikipedia is addicted to wow, lemme tell you something: it is not worth abandoning your wives and children to gain that extra level. it is not worth soiling all those socks just for that extra epic item... please Listen to the people who play the "RTS" (real time startergy) games in the "Warecraft series" TM(Actionvision Blizzard). If u haven't played a Game claled "Human Tower DEFENSE NARUTO!!!!! Fre DBZ skinz" you have not played Warcraft. Heres a little-known-fact: Vengince for Zooljin is actally a reference (we call the m"refs" in teh proffesinol world) to Warcrat 2: Ages of Bloodness. qed, Wikipedia. I dont know what that stands for, but Im using it anywasy. U feel scarred yet? U should. Teh RTS communtiy is springing back, baby!! We are teh Spearheads of the Revolution! (btw what do u guys think of the new wow expansion pretty cool right? im gonig to give my guy an afro!! lol!)Stripbolt (talk) 05:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Article setup

This looks more like a game guide/advert for WoW than an encyclopedic reference. "Playable races"? Why not list all races instead? Where are the Undead from Warcraft III? The Naga? Pandarans? This is, after all, an article about the Warcraft series. I find the existance of this article in itself strange; the Lord of the Rings universe doesn't have an article. But this article is a shamble. It also contains very little referencing. Things I've never heard of like "The great dark unknown" and the "hellish place" aren't sourced. I'd like to see something about that added. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 03:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I have moved the race section,

to the WoW article. If it get's moved back, re-move it back. --DorilMagefont (talk) 05:13, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I have reversed your move. Please discuss any controversial moves in advance of carrying them out. i'd particularly encourage you to use the {{mergefrom}} and {{mergeto}} templates to highlight your proposals in both articles. We recently removed very similar content from the World of Warcraft article due to it being unsourced. I would also urge you not to encourage editors to engage in edit warring. Many thanks, Gazimoff 07:22, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Man why dont you do it

i only moved the fuckers because there are three longwinded sections on the talk page about moving this shit and nobody says that it needs to stay--71.101.33.94 (talk) 08:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)