Talk:Mains electricity by country

Formatting help

There is a formatting problem with List of countries with mains power plugs, voltages & frequencies.

It displays fine on Xp, but not on all other systems according to User:Darrien (my Linux machine is screwed, so I can't check this at the moment). The fix he proposes (align="left") breaks the display on everything except Internet Explorer. Any clues as to how to fix this for all? Chameleon 13:20, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I haven't proposed my change as a fix, only as a workaround until someone can make it readable in all browsers.

Darrien 13:23, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)

What does it work around? The page already displays correctly in all browsers on Windows. Only fix it for your favourite operating system if you don't break it for Windows. Chameleon 13:27, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It would help if a) you could explain the nature of the problem. I see the page reverting between working fine for me (Firefox on XP), and having the table beneath all the images. and b) if you'd cool down / keep cool and continue to discuss. All browsers on windows is not good enough if it fails on a *NIX browser. Equally an RV war will get you nowhere. Could I suggest the remainder of this dicussion be taken to the article's talk page. --Tagishsimon

The problem is that, with Chameleon's version (before he moved the pictures to the bottom) viewing the page with larger fonts caused the pictures to occlude the table, making it unreadable.

I changed it so that the pictures were shown at the top of the page, before the table (which according to Chameleon's comments, rendered differently in IE) so it would be readable, albeit somewhat ugly, pending a permanant solution.

Darrien 13:46, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)

There are not enough people viewing the talk page. I need several people running different systems to work out a solution. I too would like the page to look right on Linux etc, but not if it breaks it for Windows (used by the vast majority of people). What you see in Firefox is what I see in Mozilla. Opera is different but also can't display it right with align="left". I would explain the nature of the problem, but unfortunately I can't actually see any problem. Non-Windows users such as Darrien need to enlighten us on that (instead of breaking the display). Chameleon 13:38, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

What is the problem with Opera? Looks good with Opera 7.5 (and 7.6 preview) on Win2k (better than on MSIE actually, since the fugly borders collapse as they should). [[User:Anárion| (Anárion)]] 13:49, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hmmm. I don't know. When I looked before, the original version was fine in Opera, but Darrien's fix made the text run over the images. Now it appears both display the same thing. Chameleon 14:01, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Don't misunderstand me; I agree there are not enough people looking at the discussion page ... so we leave this notice here, but continue the remainder of the discussion on the talk page; else we end up taking over the Pump. Ideally, we would now refactor this discussion into a single line, inviting those who read it to follow the link to the talk page. Would you accept me doing that (or even do it yourself?) --Tagishsimon

I agree - let's find out exactly what you both are seeing. Form the sound of it, both solutions break in some browsers - there should be a way of ensuring that it works for you both. Let's talk about this -- sannse (talk) 13:41, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Duh. That's why I posted on the Pump. Chameleon 13:45, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

More information: I am using IE6. With a large text size, Chameleon's version has the problem of the images covering the table, Darrien's version has the problem of the table covering the images. The version with the images below the table works fine (although is not so aesthetically pleasing once the text size is reduced) -- sannse (talk) 13:48, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

For me, Darrien's versions don't display properly in Firefox (the table shows further down page AFTER the images on right), and are minus some useful line breaks (before/after table) in Internet Explorer. OS is Win2K. zoney ▓   ▒ talk 13:50, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

With small window width, Darriens the table occludes the pictures in IE, Chameleon's the pictures occude the table. zoney ▓   ▒ talk 13:53, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It appears browser/platform is a red herring or straw man or somesuch device, the real problem is the current arrangement being too wide for low-res or small width browser windows... zoney ▓   ▒ talk 13:56, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It seems Darrien neglected to mention that the page displays fine normally, but screws up if you pump the fonts up. So, we are now looking for a solution to font size problems. I think the only thing we can do is to put the images underneath the table, as I have done (but tidying them up). Chameleon 14:06, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Chameleon, your solution works. The images are not in order with the table anyways (it's only alphabetic). Also the solution is required as it affects those with limited horizontal width/resolution at normal font sizes. zoney ▓   ▒ talk 14:12, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps reducing the width of the comments on the table would be helpful? -- sannse (talk) 14:00, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

On my browser, 120% is fine. You have to pump it up to 150% to make the unimportant comments hard to read, and a massive 200% to obscure the frequencies too (at that size, no Wikipedia page fits on the screen). If we want to make everything nice for people with that bad vision, we have to give up on putting the images along the side. The solution was to move them down, not to break the display at normal text size. Chameleon 14:10, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I've removed the spurious vertical bars at the beginning of each row. Although the column of pictures down the side looks nice (and displays fine for me - MS XP/Netscape 7.1), it seems that the safest solution is to have them grouped at the bottom. [[User:Noisy|Noisy | Talk]] 14:51, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

How does the version with the images in a <th>-cell look? -- User:Docu

The picture column has a dark gray background that extends to Nicaragua, and there seems to be too much padding between the pictures and the table. Other than that, it looks good to me.

Darrien 16:12, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)

Nicaragua is where the rowspan=150 runs out in the version of 15:43 13 Sep 2004.. This should not happen with the way I used nested tables in the version of 16:35 13 Sep 2004. —AlanBarrett 16:41, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, it looks fine now. If everyone else agrees, I would suggest removing the {{attention}} tag.

Darrien 17:18, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)

This page looks fine in my browser (Firefox 1.5.0.7) but it doesn't print properly! Three pages print: the top, the table and the bottom. i.e. the whole table tries to print on one page with the result that only the top-left corner can be seen. Putting the pictures at the right hand side is silly - I didn't realize they were there for about five minutes! Why not just put them in a separate table above or below the list of countries. Then it also ought to be easy to format the list of countries so it prints properly.

Dave Howorth 2006-10-13

Australian voltage

The domestic mains voltage in Australia is now nominally 230 volts plus or minus 15%, conforming to IEC 60038. However most Australians would be unaware of this change, and refer to it as "240 volt", which it may well be... that's consistent with the spec!

I wonder whether there should be a footnote on the page about this? Andrewa 13:30, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't know what IEC 60038 says is the allowable tolerance for a 230 V system but Australian Standard 60038 (which judging from the use of the same number is probably a direct copy) states 230 V +10% -6% .... I put a note of it where required Anthrass 10:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I always thought the UK was 240 volts myself, that's what everyone here usually say so does what you say above also apply to the UK?Smoothy 19:55, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The uk is now officially 230V +10% -6% however the previous standard was 240V +-6% and on all occasions where i have measured it has been between 240 and 250. Plugwash 05:29, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

We are officially 230v to comply with some European directive or other, but in reality we are - and have always been - 240v. I agree that situations such as this should be noted on the page. David Johnson [T|C] 19:07, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Same goes for Ireland. I've never measured it personally, but it's supposed to be 230V much like the UK, but could still be 240V in certain areas or possibly everywhere. I hear people say it is actually 230V now but I don't know for sure. Old stuff using the older D/M plugs all seem to be rated for 250V too, here. --Zilog Jones 03:36, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The rating of the plugs is always higher than the nominal voltage. Schuko plugs are rated for 250 V, too. -- Sloyment 00:50, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I tried measuring it here in Ireland (Limerick, near Ardnacrusha), and it was 230V. --Zilog Jones 16:23, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

While the spec may be 230V seems 240V is still the norm. According to the Western Power website (the company that provides power in Western Australia) states that they provide 240V +/-6%. Read "What To Do If You are Having Problems With Quality" Reliability v Quality. --202.72.188.124 10:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

That page is now a dead link... Note that 240 V ±6% is almost completely contained within 230 V - 6%/+10% anyway so is really only a paperwork change... Note too that all documentation, tables and calculation formulae in Australia are now published assuming 230 V as the mains voltage, not 240 V... As i've said elsewhere, the lowest point of supply mains voltage I've found in my area is 225 V and the highest 252 V (both within either standard) Anthrass 06:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Canada

I like in Canada myself. The regular plugs are 110 to 120v... but qwhat i'm wondering is, why doesn't this have anythnig about the other plugs? For example, stoves or ovens use different plugs, im not sure what voltage they are, 220v or 240v. Is this page only about usual voltage, or should something about that be added as well? SECProto 19:15, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)

right now those are at Industrial & multiphase power plugs & sockets. This page is basically bursting at the seams there isn't really any space to add much new stuff here (guideline is that articles should stay below 32k). maybe that page is badly titled but im not really sure how best to titile is ("other ac power plugs and sockets" sounds a bit lame to me) ideas and more content for that page would be welcome. Plugwash 21:38, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

My understanding is that high powered devices in North America are powered across two opposite phases of the AC supply (ie. two phases are 180° apart)... So high powered devices (stoves or ovens etc.) will be powered by double whatever the single phase supply happens to be - so if the singe-phase supply is 110V then the plug is at 220V and if 120V then it's 240V etc. (any thoughts?)... So the page only shows the single-phase nominal AC supply voltage/frequency... Where I live in Australia, high powered devices (some air conditioners for example) are 3-phase wye (except we call it 'star') connected at a nominal 400 volts (the nominal single phase voltage being 230V)... Anthrass 11:53, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

It's not two phases,it's a single-phase supply, center-tapped ( see split phase. The nominal rating of the system is 120/240 V at the supply end. Utilization equipment will carry a 115/230 V name plate, indicating that the design of the apparatus allows for some voltage drop between source of supply and point of use. System nominal voltages are always (or ought always) to be given in terms of supply voltage - if we can be pedantic about "kibibytes" we can surely get this straight. You would only find two phases of a three-phase system in North America in a residence if it was two legs of a 120/208 system Voltages over 120 V to ground are not allowed in residential applications governed by the US and Canadian electrical codes - in fact the US code seems not to permit 240 V on the terminals of any wiring device in a circuit less than 1440 VA. --Wtshymanski 21:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Cool... Thanks for clearing that up for me - I knew that it was something of that effect - I didn't know it came from a centre-tapped transformer though... The effect is the similar though.. Centre tapped transformers are only used here in remote areas where single-wire earth systems are used... Anthrass 09:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Quebec: Please note that Quebec uses 60Hz, not 50Hz as mentioned. Regards! 216.66.206.156 17:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)Denis216.66.206.156 17:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Type A plug

There is no picture of a type A plug —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.145.112 (talk) 09:35, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing that Type A is the 2-pin version of Type B. Slowmover (talk) 19:14, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Mexico

I'm pretty sure the 120/240 info for Mexico is incorrect. I have read from numerous sources that 220Y/127 is the standard. When I was in Mexico, I noticed numerous fluorescent ballasts labeled 127V or 130V. Also, everywhere I went (in the towns, anyway), I saw large polemount transformers supplying a wye output to the neighborhood. Yak99 04:17, 4 May 2007 (UTC)yak99

Bit o' cleanup

Came to skip a redirect, noted and fixed multiple spelling errors in the intro, and some grammatical awkwardness. Linked the 'Industrial' article under the somewhat broad descriptor 'Heavy-duty,' so at least visitors know of it. Also linked the AC article, as it has a nice description of AC frequency. Oddly, it has a list of countries and their respective AC frequency choices, overlapping much of the information here. Deleted the nonsense about "might not mate" because if they're in the same lettered photo, they ARE guaranteed to mate, as that is the whole idea of standard plugs and matching receptacles. Still wondering about the "bit ambiguous" comment. Can someone point out an example where the table is ambiguous? Maybe those cases need footnotes? The Electrical wiring article is linked because it might make a good jumping-off point for a techie. Considered also Power cord because of the country-specific references to power in that article as well. Lupinelawyer 21:12, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

with regards the ambiguity the issues are with types A B C and F. With A and B the japaneese variant will fit the american sockets but the american variant won't fit the japaneese sockets because it has the wider pin for polarisation. With C there is a higher current variant (CEE 7/17) which has 4.8mm pins rather than the 4mm pins of the more common low current europlug. With F there is a russian variant which has 4mm pins which will fit the german sockets but the german version won't fit the russian sockets. Plugwash 11:50, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

There's also a rub with the Japanese plugs; and it also applies to the American-market ones. The polarization issue was more of a problem with older sockets and especially multi-plug "cube taps", which frequently were NOT polarized. Most of the modern stuff is polarized, especially the sockets installed in the wall (from what I've observed in the short time I was in Japan). However you can still get the non-polarized taps over there (and occasionally here in the USA). Stephanie Weil 16:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ireland/Saudi

The same comment about "shaver sockets" in bathrooms for UK plugs should be here too. Type 'D' and 'M' plugs also used to be standard here. Though I'm not sure when the 'G' ones were officially introduced here - though the British Standard for the new plugs was published in 1962, my grandparents' house built in 1965 was originally fitted with type 'M' plugs (I think there's still a few there!).

Also, on every stage I've seen in the UK and Ireland where I have noticed the light fittings, they all use 'M' plugs for large lights (probably dimmer-controlled), and occasionally 'D' ones for smaller lights/circuits. I've also noticed 'D' plugs in some other light ciruits in pubs, restaurants, and whatnot.

And on the subject of Saudi Arabia - I used to live there during the early 90's, and things were very weird. In the Dhahran/Dammam/Al Khobar region, it appears that American sockets were most common in households, and I think we used 127V with those kinds of sockets. However, in the house I lived in, there was a 'G' type socket for the dishwasher. I don't know what voltage it ran on. I never saw what plugs the other large kitchen appliances used (fridge, washing machine, etc.), but they were all American-style Hotpoint appliances. I lived in a compound for British Aerospace employees, though, so things may have been different elsewhere. I definately remember seeing American 2 and 3-pin plugs elsewhere there, like in my school. I also remember we had a good few adapters for 2-pin Europlugs. --Zilog Jones 04:07, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Here in the uk (and presumabblly also ireland) M type (15A BS546) plugs are used in the UK for stage lighting and occasionally for kitchen appliances. The main reason for using them is that whilst fused plugs are a great idea for normal domestic equipment they are not so good for connections that are awkward to get at.

D type (5A BS546) and sometimes also the 2A BS546 (which we don't have a letter for here) are often used when it is desired to connect lamps to the lighting cuircuit (to allow thier control by lightswitches) So that people can't go connecting high power appliances and taking out the fuse/breaker. Plugwash 13:52, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

What's better?

What's better? 50 Hertz or 60 Hertz, 110 Volts or 220 Volts? --Abdull 12:00, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

60Hz makes better use of the core material of transformers and motors compared to 50Hz so theorectically can be made smaller for the same kVA or kW rating - AC on aircraft (where weight is a priority) is 400Hz for this reason... On the other hand the higher 60Hz frequency will lead to slightly higher reactive loss on long cable runs compared to 50Hz... Much of a muchness really... With transformers being in the high 90's percentage efficiency-wise voltage isn't really the issue but more likely the current in household or industrial wiring... For a given power rating, lower voltage goes with higher current and so wiring has to be a thicker gauge = more copper = more cost... The difference isn't a lot though in a typical situation.. Anthrass 11:08, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

230 Volts is overall better than 110 Volts because when using an apliance with a certain power consumption (say 100 Watts), the Amperage on a 230 Volts line wil be lower than on a 110 Volts line (as P(Watt) = U(Volts) * I(Ampère)). And Amps are lost over longer cable lengths, that's the reason why backbone power lines use 400.000 Volts with a relatively low Amperage. Also, the lower the Voltage, the thicker the cable needs to be (with the same power consumtion (Watt)). That's why modern cars run on 12V (old cars ran at 6V) and trucks on 24V (cables are longer there and Amps get lost over cable length). Rick2910 (talk) 20:09, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, amperes are conserved in a wire; voltage drops.

In places with 220 V mains, the electrical supply is much more likely to burn or electrocute you if you get across it, so they tend to have more elaborate safety measures on their plugs. The higher voltage uses wiring more efficiently, but makes it harder to make a good low-wattage incandescent bulb. Neither is better, the just have different properties. Dicklyon (talk) 00:55, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Any voltage above 42V is potentially deadly. Rick2910 (talk) 10:19, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Higher voltage is more efficient for transformers. As an example computer power supplies tend to be around 2% more efficient at 230V than 110V. 83.231.208.161 (talk) 15:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Hong Kong

Hong Kong G, while D & M are used in old installations.

What's M? Thanks, --Abdull 12:05, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

sorry someone grouped M under the D entry on mains power plug and in the list here (its the 15A BS546) and for some reason in the list here. I'm putting the list here back to list it in the place you'd expect to find M. Plugwash 17:32, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Saudia Arabia

I got few devices from saudia arabia configured on 110V (i burnt them using 220)

(they had only 2 options 110V or 220V) that is why i think they use 110V there

الثاقب (WiseSabre| talk) 17:45, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

possiblly i think in a lot of places it depends on who built/owns the place you are living in. BTW 220 and 240 are close enough that it is almost never a problem to use a 220V device on a 240V system or a 240V device on a 220V system.

When I was in Saudi recently I saw 110V and 230V and measured both 50Hz and 60Hz on 230V lines. Not surprisingly one piece of 110V equipment had been blown by a customer plugging it in to 230V. The electrics were pretty frightening in the hotels too! 83.231.208.161 (talk) 15:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

IEC 60038

I have heard that according to IEC 60038 all member countries with 50 Hz have switched to a nominal voltage of 230 V.

1. Can somebody with access to this standard confirm this?
2. What does the standard say about the other countries?

-- Sloyment 14:17, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Isn't half of japan still 50hz/100V? Plugwash 12:25, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I have measured my mains supply in Ireland on several occasions in the past year with a digital multimeter - and I always get 230V with a variation of about ±3V. --213.202.177.40 22:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Oops, that was me! --Zilog Jones 22:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

This would be very interesting. I hope that someone expert can confirm this.

I read that the goal of the IEC is to achieve a standard throughout member countries of 230V for 50Hz systems. As an example Australia agreed sometime in the early 1980's (I think 1984) but it took untill the year 2000 to actually alter the standard. Other member countries could be in different stages of progress. Anthrass 23:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

References

Please add references as to where the information in this article is obtained. You may need to do some major work for that, but then it can easily become a featured list candidate.--May the Force be with you! Shreshth91($ |-| r 3 $ |-| t |-|) 09:05, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

to properly reference this article would be an insane task and i doubt there is anyone here prepared to take it on especially as some of the poorer countries probablly don't have enforced standards like the west does. Plugwash 23:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Plugwash, I agree with you, but don't you think that this article only having 1 (one!) reference is a little incomplete? At least I expected to have references for all western countries... --Lgrave 01:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Thailand

Seems to have its own 3 pin standard (http://www.leoni-electrical-appliances.com/Plugs.6775.0.html?&L=1&cHash=29a5cfda7a&mode=DETAILS&cpid=2082&uid=237) but I'm not clear whether these are a new standard or how common they are. Any further information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.192.0.10 (talk) 15:37, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Interconnection

If you connect a simple device designed for 240 V/ 50 Hz (like a British hairdryer) with an adapter to 110 V / 60 Hz (like America), will it work? Will the higher frequency damage it? 57.66.51.165 15:21, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Higher frequency will not normally do damage to an item like a hairdryer, but the low voltage will prevent it from getting very hot, so it may not be satisfactory. In fact, most items designed for 50Hz will work just fine on 60Hz -- the voltage is more typically the issue in either case. Equipment designed for 60Hz, especially motors and large transformers (> 500 watt), may overheat on 50Hz even with the correct voltage due to the lower back-emf (slower speed) and higher magnetic saturation. Alan 17:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Australian Two-Pin Plug

An unearthed two-pin plug is often used in Australia - like the one shown for Germany. Should this not be noted on the page as another plug type? --217.238.60.194 20:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Origin of Plug lettering system

I am researching the origin of the plug lettering system? This article specifies a “US government document”. Dose anyone know which government department developed the document and how I could get a copy?

Scan through the archived chat and if nessacery the early page history of domestic AC power plugs and sockets i belive there is a mention somewhere. Plugwash 20:41, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

From reading the archived talk it seems its http://www.ita.doc.gov/media/Publications/pdf/current2002FINAL.pdf don't take the information in it as gospel though as some of it is plain wrong! Plugwash 15:14, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Chile

Text and map are inconsistent - map says 50 Hz, text says 60 Hz. Some searching makes me think that 50 Hz is correct - namely, I couldn't find any reference which said Chile is 60 Hz. --Ethelred 20:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

This website (in Spanish) says it's 220 volts/50 hertz: http://www.gochile.cl/Info_s/Hbook/datosutiles.asp . I know for certain that Chile uses the same plugs as in Italy. 15:58, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

wanted: someone who can read danish

according to the article http://www.sik.dk/global/Presse/Pressemeddelelser/tvungen_hpfi_afrbydere.html claims that french plugs will be introduced in denmark from 2008. Can someone have a read of the source (which i'm guessing is in danish) and clarify if it says anything about how thier introduction will be handled (in particular if and how they will stop unsafe use of french plugs in existing danish sockets)

Reply: Right now almost no one in Denmark uses ground in their private homes. This is because electrical equipment is normally shipped with the E+F hybrid plug, and almost never with the Danish K (which only exist in newer homes).

From the article:

Indførsel af HPFI-afbrydere i alle installationer øger altså sikkerheden, og derfor kan det danske marked efter 1. juli 2008 åbnes for stikkontakter produceret efter fransk/belgisk standard. Sikkerhedsstyrelsen har valgt at tillade de fransk/belgiske blandt andet fordi, de giver bedre mulighed for jordbeskyttelse ved brug af importerede elektriske apparater med hybridstikpropper.

--130.225.51.45 10:30, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The article states that from 1 July 2008, it will become possible to use the "Franco-Belgian" standard on the Danish market, in order to increase competition on the power plug market. With the additional safety gained for people using imported appliances with these sockets. The article does not mention anything about converting existing installations, but mentions that the Danish Safety Technology Authority (SIL) will continue to work for an international harmonization of power plugs. The specification for the non-grounded Danish plug will likewise be amended to minimize any problems for users combining the two systems. The article describes the introduction of the Franco-Belgian standard as a result of a new compulsory upgrade to "HPFI" ground fault circuit interrupters in all installations. The HPFI is an upgraded version of the old HFI interrupter, and electricians have effectively been upgrading to the new standard for more than 10 years. In some cases, e.g. when installing a washing machine, replacing the old HFI interrupter was compulsory.

For those unfamiliar with the Danish market for electrical appliances; One company, Lauritz Knudsen (= "LK"), has (close to) a complete monopoly on power plugs and wall sockets in Denmark. This situation has led to pretty high prices, and it looks like this is the reason behind this announcement which directly mentions that the Authority expects more competition on the market resulting in lower prices. For consumers, the Danish situation is a bit of a mess, since sellers of imported electrical goods often ship these products with a Schuko plug, meaning that consumers have to chose. Naturally, the safe solution is to cut off the plug, and replace it with a Danish grounded version. However, some vendors use this as a way of depriving customers of the product's legal warrenty, since the seller can now claim that the product has been modified. It is very common for consumers simply to use the original plug, which fits nicely into the round version of the non-grounded socket - ignoring that the appliance should have been grounded. Even more so as the requirement to install grounded sockets in private homes is a relatively new standard. Interestingly, this announcement seems to have been completely ignored in Danish media, and the Danish Safety Technology Authority has officially been working for international harmonization for more than 20 years. But AFAIK, this is the first time that a non-Danish standard is allowed on the Danish market. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 16:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

What i'd like to why the hell the government was allowing sale of appliances with incompatible earthing arrangements in the first place?! Plugwash 17:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

No arguing there (my dad is an electrician as you might have guessed by now). Unfortunately, a demand that appliances sold in Denmark should also use Danish sockets would be a trade restriction not allowed under EU law. Denmark is such a small market that such niceties are often simply ignored by importers. If an electrical appliance is legal to sell in Germany, it is also legal to sell it in any other part of the EU, Denmark included. The situation described applies mostly to consumer electronics, e.g. televisions and computers. When it comes to "heavy duty" machinery - like a washing machine using 380 Volts - a certified electrician will normally install it, and he will naturally use the correct 380 V socket which is completely incompatible with the 230 V sockets. I can't remember if it is a legal requirement that such appliances must be installed by a certified electrician, but I'm 99% sure that it is. When it comes to the 230 V system, any action modifying the house's fixed wiring, hidden or not, must be made by a certified electrician. Ordinary people are allowed to exchange an old 230 V wall socket with a new one in the same location, but that's about it. Some people naturally ignore this law, but this is a bad idea since doing so will make your fire insurance void. Valentinian ^{(talk) / (contribs)} 23:23, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

The statement "Unfortunately, a demand that appliances sold in Denmark should also use Danish sockets would be a trade restriction not allowed under EU law" is not entirely correct. A country can make a "general good" case for restricting trade if there is a valid national interest at stake. So UK and Ireland (and possibly other countries) only permit appliances to be sold with a G type plug on safety grounds; appliances with, say a French type plug cannot be sold. The Danish authorities could have adopted a similar approach but (for whatever reason) have chosen not to.

Domestic sockets in other Scendinavian countries, although not compatible with Denmark's, are usually not earthed other than in kitchens and bathrooms. Maybe this is why the Danish authorities have not acted sooner to resolve the issue of widespread use of plugs with incompatible earthing devices in Danish sockets. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.192.0.10 (talk) 15:50, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

orfography check

I added info about russian electric standart, but not sure in in spelling, please check it. BTW, up to begin of 1980-s many of soviet home-technik was produced as dual-standart - 127/220. I don't now about other xUSSR countries, but in Russia this standart using now in some isolated peripherial electric nets, just an example in some siberian villages. This standart uses same GOST plug as 220V.

Ethiopia discrepancy

The map indicates that Ethiopia uses the C, E, and F type connectors, and based on my recollection, I am quite sure this is correct - though I'm not absolutely positive. The text, on the other hand, lists the D, J and L connectors and those just don't look familiar. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Kurdistan

What does Kurdistan in the list of countries and territories stand for? With all due respect to the Kurdish people and their aspirations, AFAIK there's no legal entity which could be called Kurdistan. I'll remove Kurdistan entry from the table unless somebody presents a good reason for it to stay. I'd like to say once again, I don't have anything against the Kurds, but Wikipedia's List of countries with mains power plugs, voltages and frequencies doesn't seem to be the right place to wage war for national liberation, does it? Paluszak 11:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Liberia mains frequency (60 or 50 hertz)

Can someone point me to a source that mentions Liberia also using 50 hertz current? Considering that this country used the American standards (120 volts/60 hertz) for electricty, why would they be making such a massive change to something non-standard like 120V/50 Hz? Stephanie Weil 15:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

This is just going by what is/was written in the article, but apparently all electricity in Liberia is generated by private firms that don't pay heed to any regulations. All Liberia's neigbours use 230 V 50 Hz, so any electrical goods brought over from those countries would be unsuitable for use in Liberia. However, if your electricity comes from your own generator or one belonging to a neighbourhood entrepreneur (which I'm guessing is what's meant by privately generated), it makes sense to change the generator and take advantage of products readily available on the regional market.--GagHalfrunt 21:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. Although everything I've read about electricity in various tourist information websites for Liberia says that the voltage is 120V at 60 hertz with American plugs. That's what has me confused. Maybe someone from the country can report? Stephanie Weil 15:54, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The tourist information is based on pre-1990 war information. Since approximately 2001 Liberia has switched to 50Hz -- first unofficially, now officially. This Wikipedia article is correct (I corrected it -- or at least I had corrected it once; as recent as version 11572605. I have corrected it once again, with a link to this talk page entry).

I grew up in Liberia, left in 1990 just before the major part of the war began, visited again in December 2004, and will be returning at the end of July to work on an electrical power project at one of the private generation plants.

During the war almost the entire electrical infrastructure was cannibalized for scrap: HV lines and wires in buildings (see [1] and [2]) -- people had to find some way to eat, and there was no power in the wires anyway. It was reported that merchants were paying US$1 per pound for scrap copper in the early 1990s, and that at one point some 15 shipping containers of scrap copper were seized as being illegal (not clear if they were 20ft or 40ft; but either way it was a lot).

Additionally, the main source of power for the Monrovia area, a hydroelectric plant at Mt Coffee on the St Paul River, was destroyed by flooding. When the fighting closed in on the Mt Coffee Dam in July 1990, the technicians fled and were unable to return in time to open the flood gates on the reservoir before the summer rains arrived (which were late that year). In a normal rainy season all but one or two of the flood gates are opened to keep the reservoir from overflowing the coffer dam. However, in 1990 only four of the spillway floodgates remained open [3]] and the reservoir overflowed the coffer dam and completely eroded it down to bedrock [4]]. The powerhouse appears to remain, but it is doubtful that it can be rehabilitated any time soon. (Anecdotes from my father, Jon Shea, who was the SIM West Africa Area Director and in Liberia at the time and in the years following.)

Given that both the infrastructure and the generation equipment has been destroyed, it makes no sense to remain an island of 60Hz in a sea of 50Hz -- even though it may be one or two decades before the grid is extended to neighboring countries. But especially in light of several aid projects consisting of 50Hz equipment from African[5] and EU countries. (Ghana supplied generators for the street light project in Monrovia.)

Most electrical equipment available in Monrovia today is 50Hz or 50/60Hz and either 110v or 220v. Virtually every generator sold is 50Hz, but allows 115/230v connections. Enough of the 110v infrastructure remains that it will probably continue to be an option in most places, albeit at 50Hz! Eventually the private grids (Firestone, ELWA, among others) will have to convert to 50Hz in order to connect to the main grid -- when it arrives. The private grids are operating with generators installed either before the war (Firestone's hydro plant dates to the mid 1960s(?) and also supplies power to the nearby Roberts International Airport), or in the early 1990s, before the change was official.

Alan 07:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much Alan. It's pretty interesting, and yeah, I agree it doesn't make sense to remain a 60 hertz country surrounded by 50 hertz. It seems to be the same way with South Korea (220 volts at 60 hertz). I wonder if after reunification, will the entire country adopt 50 hertz at 220 volts, or will the northern part of the country remain 50 and the south 60, just like Japan. Part of methinks that North Korea would eventually adapt to the standards of its significantly wealthier southern neighbor. Stephanie Weil 20:43, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia

I'm still confused about Saudi Arabia. I've never been there, so I don't have any first-hand experience, but all the websites I've found about Saudi Arabia say that both 127 and 220 volts are used. But they don't say why both voltages are used. I mean, is it like half of the country uses 127 volts and the other half of the country uses 220 volts, or is the whole country in a transition period from 127 to 220 volts? Also, about the plugs and outlets there, for 127 volts, everything I've read so far say that it's usually A but sometimes B. But for 220 volts, some websites say it's F but other websites say that it's G, and some websites say that it's both F and G. Which is correct?

Marknagel 17:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Would a Japanese appliance run on American 120v 60hz?".

A friend of mine is interested in importing a Japanese 360 and is curious if any adapters or special precautions are necessary to prevent damage to the house or the console itself. Any help would be appreciated. 208.104.87.97 08:03, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it would be any problem at all. Japan uses 100v/60Hz, and that's close enough for many things. A 360 (as most computers) uses a switch-mode power supply, which can handle large variations in input voltage without any problem. Alan 05:52, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

China Outlet

I took a picture of a China outlet during my last trip. I can email to anyone would like to post it in this section.

Merge with Mains electricity

There was a small amount of content here that overlapped with Mains electricity - I've put it there and left the main list here. --Wtshymanski 17:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The voltage in Hong Kong

The voltage used in Hong Kong was 200V [6] before 1990s. It is not before 1997 where all power substations in Hong Kong were converted to 220V. --✉ Hello World! 18:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Japan

In Japan,200V supplies for personal with 100V. I use induction cooker that works by 200V. In Japan home appliances whose 200V uses is spreading.

200V used by high-powered air conditioner ,induction cooker ,Electlic water heater,and more for Personal. So ordinary appliances uses 100V. PCs aren't exception,it uses 100V.

Please excuse me for my poor english. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.214.182.30 (talk) 18:37, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

So you are essentially adopting the US system of using split phase in homes with the higher power appliances placed accross both lives? Do you use the same connectors as the americans for the higher voltage appliances as well? Plugwash 20:31, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[7](Japanese wikipedia 単相3線式) This article describe how to taking out 200V. Maybe,electric whose supplies my home is 100V, and convert to 200V at home.

Just for reference [8](Japanese wikipedia plugs and sockets) 220.214.183.189 09:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC) =220.214.182.30

While I can't read the text the diagram in your first link looks identical to the american system (apart from the slightly lower voltage). the "エアコン設置箇所等に用いられる大容量コンセント(JIS C 8303 2極接地極付コンセント 20A125V)" socket in the second article you link also looks very similar to the nema 6-20T. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plugwash (talk • contribs) 15:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Type E

These French connectors looks bisexual to me. =s

88.105.93.41 00:03, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Type A image missing?!

please add - get it from http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:A_plug.jpg Regards Bumbulski 19:19, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

The entries for Australia and the United Kingdom are a bit Gobbledygook

The entries for Australia and the United Kingdom are a bit Gobbledygook and miss-leading. See: http://www.plainenglish.co.uk/index.htm

The supply voltage in Australia and UK was -- is -- & will be -- still the same old 240 volts. Put you Fluke, AVO, or two-wet-fingers across the terminals and you will see nothing has changed! The spec. has however, been re-defined. Ie., for Australia it is 240 ± 6% (supply =240 volts) and for the UK it is 230 + 10% -6% [ or +4% above the nominal Datum ] ergo (supply = 240 volts). Ref: http://www.lif.co.uk/dbimages/doc/techstatements/15TECH.doc

http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file11548.pdf

And, as always, for the doubting Thomas'es, I recommend the two wet finger test. After all: When the world changed from Liverpool to Falmouth datum for mean sea level, no one said “Ah the diameter of World has just expanded four foot !!!”. Therefore these entries needs re-phrasing so they make logical sense to the lay reader.Aspro (talk) 21:01, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

As far as I recall, the UK (240V, 50Hz) supply is still defined by an act of parliament passed pre EU. As such it still has to stay that way, and the table should be updated to say 240. The 230V +- % was just the usual EU fudge/compromise in order to define a standard'.

Diasan (talk) 21:55, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

As far as we go here in Australia I suggest you read the relevant Australian Standard... 230V +10/-6% is the current figure with 240V +/-6% being superseded long ago... In Australia, all tables regarding maximum line lengths, fault loop impedences and the like assume 230V as the mains voltage, not 240V... If the mains voltage is not 230V (and it very often isn't), then conversion factors must be used. Anthrass (talk) 01:59, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Why are so many getting hung up on the nominal rated voltage used as a datum for specifying equipment and cables _ The table in the article list 'nominal system' voltages in rms.

Quote:

Voltages in this article are the nominal supply voltages and equipment used on these systems will carry slightly lower nameplate voltages.

This is not so much a technical issue as one of English comprehension.--Aspro (talk) 16:09, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

"A" plug image?

There used to be an image for the "A" plug referenced in the article. It was right above the "B" plug on the right-hand side. Can that be put back in? I don't know how! Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.171.144.154 (talk) 00:22, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Tahiti

All the tourist Web sites and "Electricity Abroad" says Tahiti is 60 Hz - you'd expect a French colony to be 50 Hz, but seems to be not the case. Anyone changing this, should have a good reference handy. --Wtshymanski (talk) 00:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the old 220v 50Hz French system is probable the official voltage system. This however may have been a local service around the main French administration town only . The GDP and annul earnings per capita and very small population -would I think- have made the building of a 'grid' as such, totally uneconomic (see the population growth figures for Tahiti#Historical_population). So what I think may have happened, is that as tourism took off, the major hotels chains found themselves free to create their own private (and more dependable) power systems, using what ever standard, their target clientèle would find the most familiar. The thought came to me that people who make money from selling adaptor might be the best informed. So, I found this adaptor supplierhttp://www.international-electrical-supplies.com/tahiti-plug-adapters.html According to them, some plug types are missing from the WP Tahiti entry.

For the above reasons I don't think a WP suitable reference(s) will ever be forth coming. Maybe we should just say that the 220 50Hz is the standard supply -with tourist resorts having their own private systems of 110 or 120 @ 60hz or 240v @ 50Hz.--Aspro (talk) 11:42, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Nonsense...there's got to be a tourist guide or something printed. I wonder if the Tahiti electrical supply company has a Web site. My high-school French might be just enough to puzzle it out. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

The International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) has zoned Haiti as 110v @ 60Hz plug type A & 1..http://www.iec.ch/zone/plugsocket/ps_america.htmSo that looks like the official voltage class now.--Aspro (talk) 14:32, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

But Tahiti is on the other side of the earth - there's no listing on that page for Tahiti. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:27, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. Now [9] says 220 volts and 60 (sixty!) Hz, as does the Google Books snapshot at [10]

And [11] says 220 Volts but doesn't give frequency. --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:41, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey, the [Electrictie de Tahiti Web site] says 60 Hz. My rudimentary French lets me think their history of 60 Hz generation goes back to WWII, when they imported a lot of US-spec equipment, even though they had a hydro plant in 1911. --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:04, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

New Discussion

A discussion has been started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries/Lists of countries which could affect the inclusion criteria and title of this and other lists of countries. Editors are invited to participate. Pfainuk talk 12:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

This article has a list of "regions", not "countries", which side-steps the issue; for the purposes of this articlea "region" could probably be defined as the geographically contiguous largest political unit with a uniform system of electrical plugs and power. Over-refining this definition, for this article anyway, doesn't seem to me to be a good use of human effort. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:04, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'm not trying to force anything on any article where it is more appropriate to use something else. Pfainuk talk 17:20, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I find it's often very useful to think about what a definition will be used for, before getting too worked up about definitions. --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)