Talk:Islam

Additions needed to the Predestination in Islam page?

I asked this on the talk page of Predestination in Islam, but I realized that many who would care about the changes I would make may not be watching that page and the best way to get feed-back would be to mention it here. I said, "It seems to me that a summary of the the major schools of thought and major thinkers should be added to this page. It seems to me that this would be the #1 most useful section in an article of this sort. I will await feedback before adding these myself." I have gathered some sources to make these additions, but these would constitute a fairly sizable edition so I wanted to make sure anyone who would oppose them has sufficient chance to make themselves heard. I am new to Wikipedia editing, so please correct me on any breaches of etiquette I may be committing. LUbunkerman (talk) 01:59, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

This is an FA-Class article, meaning it gives sufficient amount of information and detail to each category according to the goals of the Wikipedia project. For information detailing differences in Islamic aqeedah (creed) and fiqh (law), you may want to check the Islamic schools and branches. If I can branch off to my own opinion for a moment, the reason this would perhaps be most useful to you is because you are aware of most of the basic information of Islam that this page offers, which is what this is supposed to cover. Differences and details of Islamic thought, which are many extremely detailed in nature, should be covered elsewhere. Also, you should always add new sections to the bottom of the talk page, not the top, but no big deal! --♥pashtun ismailiyya 02:12, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I just reread what you said, and noted you meant it to be on Predestination in Islam. I will be more than willing to lend what I know about the subject, in particular on Ismailism. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 02:15, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Islam/Muslim=Verb??

• This is written in the opening paragraph: "The word Muslim is the participle of the same verb of which Islām is the infinitive."....... This makes absolutely no sense. Madritor (talk) 11:41, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
• It makes sense in Arabic grmamar: they are the active participle and the infinitive of the 4th derivative stem of the Arabic verb root S-L-M. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:33, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
• OK, fair enough... but seeing as this is an English language article, and in English "Islam" is a noun and "Moslem" is an adjective or noun, I think the sentence needs to either be changed or removed. It could be changed to explain the root of the words including the Arabic grammar point, but as it stands this English sentence makes no sense. Madritor (talk) 01:38, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of Cmmmm's additions to "Further Reading"

I'm sure I beat someone to this that has more authority to do it than me, but Cmmmm's additions were terribly unbalanced at best and slanderous at worst. I was going to appeal to him to revert or balance them, but to that I had to see his talk page which disabused me of any notion that he would do so. If there is any way to take it private by e-mailing him, I couldn't find it. As always, please correct me if I have over-stepped my bounds. LUbunkerman (talk) 22:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I would have done the same thing, wonderful action and thanks for coming to the talk page about it. This article is FA-Class, most edits done tend to worsen the article rather than help it. --♥pashtun ismailiyya 04:33, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

dhimmis "enjoyed"- possible word choice to replace "enjoyed"

I don't believe one "enjoys" being a second class citizen. Perehaps, "were allowed" instead.

"Historically, dhimmis enjoyed a measure of communal autonomy under their own religious leaders, but were subject to legal, social and religious restrictions meant to highlight their inferiority.[130]" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Outlook2 (talk • contribs) 05:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

There's a nit; let's pick at it!

I would agree that being a second-class citizen is probably not enjoyable, but that's not what's at issue here. Is it possible that it may just be another definition of "enjoy"? RavShimon (talk) 07:33, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

First of all, this is good English. This is OED's meaning 4a:

In weaker sense: To have the use or benefit of, have for one's lot (something which affords pleasure, or is of the nature of an advantage).

But there is a nit that can be picked here, I suppose. Just make sure that the replacement phrasing is at least as good English. The intended meaning is that dhimmis had the "benefit" or "advantage" of certain privileges compared to other class systems where the underdogs often have no rights at all or compared to other non-Muslims in Muslim society, such as pagans and apostates, who were not so much without rights as actively persecuted. --dab (𒁳) 08:21, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Iman

{{editsemiprotected}}

{{main|Aqidah|Iman}} needs to be replaced with {{main|Aqidah|Iman (concept)}} - 58.8.15.66 (talk) 19:27, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Why? Please give a reason below, and then change {{tn|editsemiprotected}} back to {{editsemiprotected}}. Thanks, 58.8.15.66 (talk) 21:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

 Done (sorry; didn't understand at first) 58.8.15.66 (talk) 21:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. 58.8.15.66 (talk) 21:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Spread by the Sword

Can't this issue, of interest to many people, be included? I remember reading the Encyclopedia Britannica stating the Islam was spread by the sword. You say that today, and you are at the very least politically incorrect. But wasn't it in fact spread by the sword? It took Christianity 300+ years to be accepted by the Romans. In 100 years Islam was at the gate of the realm of the Francs. Didn't Mohamed say "Submit, and you will be Safe."  ?? How about an honest discussion of this? Cutugno (talk) 22:48, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

From the article:

"During this time expansion of the Muslim world continued, by both conquest and peaceful proselytism";

"While the Muslim-Arab elite engaged in conquest";

"Muslim conquests"

and so on. No attempts to whitewash history here. Hadrian89 (talk) 23:13, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

No arab Muslim converted Malaysia or Indonesia, which has the largest Muslim country in the world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackswan2 (talk • contribs) 00:53, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

www.submission.org

• Can this site be included in the External links? It is, in my opinion highly reliable and informative. It's one of the most comprehensive Islam related sites I have come across. Thoughts? Tahmid Tariq (talk) 23:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).--Shahab (talk) 14:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I have to say, I personally think that submission.org is not a reliable source. It is far to bias and it is also rather anti-jew and anti-christian. You'll see that if you read the pages linked under the given catagories. --Île_flottant~Floating island (talk) 00:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

This web site represents a tiny group within Islam whose ideas are not representative. So using it as a general source is not ok. 05:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

• IN ISLAM IF THE WIFE TRYS TO IMPRESS HER HUSBEND BY LOOKING NICE E.G GETTING HER EYEBROWS PIERCED, MAKEUP ETC WITHOUT PERMISSION IS THAT WRONG? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.75.190 (talk) 11:42, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I would say its fine if the wife does so. However the appropriate place to ask this question would be the humanities desk.--Shahab (talk) 14:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Islam what does Islam means?

What does the word Islam means? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.154.72.66 (talk) 17:54, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

The word Islam means "submission", or the total surrender of oneself to God (Arabic: الله‎, Allāh). Gavin (talk) 22:30, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

In regard to this I have heard that because it contains the characters SLM that it may reference the word "salaam" (peace) within as well. If there are credible references to such a thing from qualified linguists that would be interesting (assuming that it's not just a linguistic myth). Peter Deer (talk)

Correction

Another technical meaning in Islamic thought is as one part of a triad of islam, imān (faith), amal (action) and ihsān (excellence); where it represents acts of worship (`ibādah) and Islamic law (sharia).[15]

Another technical meaning in Islamic thought is as one part of a triad of islam, imān (faith), and ihsān (excellence); where it represents acts of worship (`ibādah) and Islamic law (sharia).[15] --Tenrai 05:43, 14 June 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tenrai (talk • contribs)

Population

Hi I have changed the sentence of the population from "between 1 billion and 1.8 billion" to "approximately 1.8 billion" + or - 800 million is almost 14% of the world population which is a big margin for error. NëŧΜǒńğer^{Peace Talks} 11:52, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

You made the error worse (not by %), by stating a certain amount, rather than leaving the range. Why would you take an unknown amount & make it definite? That's fabrication.68.180.38.25 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC).

How about 1.3 billion to 1.8 billion? Its hard to find sources citing a lower number than 1.3 billion.Opticals (talk) 11:50, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Shall I change it then?Opticals (talk) 15:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

ORIGINATOR OF ISLAM!! 6/14/2009

THERE IS A MISGUIDING INFORMATION IN THIS ARTICLE STATING THAT MUHAMMED(SAW) IS THE ORIGINATOR OF ISLAM. IF THAT WERE TRUE THEN HE WOULD BE THE FIRST MESSENGER, NOT THE LAST. THE TRUTH IS, IS THAT ISLAM MEANS "SUBMISSION TO THE WILL OF ALLAH" AND EVERYTHING HAS BEEN IN A STATE OF ISLAM(SUBMITTING TO THE WILL OF ALLAH) SINCE DAY 1, BEFORE MAN EVER EXISTED. THE FIRST HUMANS TO PRACTICE ISLAM AND SUBMIT TO ALLAH'S WILL WERE ADAM AND EVE. THE FIRST MESSENGER TO BE SENT BY ALLAH IN THE NAME OF ISLAM WAS NOAH(ALAIHIS SALAM). SO SAYING THAT MUHAMMED ORIGINATED ISLAM IS A SMALL BUT SERVERE MISGUIDANCE AND CONTRADICTION TO THE FACTS OF ISLAM. I WOULD DEEPLY APPRECIATE IF THAT WERE CLARIFIED IN THE ARTICLE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE OR I WILL REPORT THE ARTICLE AS A MISGUIDANCE. THANKS FOR YOUR TIME... —Preceding unsigned comment added by HameedKhalil (talk • contribs) 14:36, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

The Muslim point of view is clarified in the second paragraph:

They (Muslims) do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion, but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets.

The article takes a general approach to the origin of Islam (how Islam originated thought in general around the world) and is not centered on the Muslim belief of the origin of Islam. Regards--Shahab (talk) 06:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I APPRECIATE THE NON BELIEVER OUTLOOK THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO PROMOTE BUT YOU HAVE JUST AS MUCH NON-BASIS FOR THAT "GENERAL POINT OF VEIW" THAN MUSLIMS HAVE ON THEIR SIDE OF THE ARGUEMENT, THEREFORE THIS IS A MISGUIDING ARTICLE AND I WILL REPORT IT. WHAT MUST BE REMOVED IN THE 1ST PARAGRAPH IS THAT ISLAM ORIGINATED FROM THE TEACHINGS OF MUHAMMED, AS HE IS THE LAST AND NOT THE 1ST MESSENGER IN THE NAME OF ISLAM. YOU MIGHT AS WELL CALL US "MUHAMMADANS" IF HE (MUHAMMED) WAS THE ORIGINATOR OF ITS TEACHINGS.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by HameedKhalil (talk • contribs) 11:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

This is about the difference between theological teachings and verifiable historical fact. Historically, as an organized religion, Islam started during Mohammed's lifetime. For a parallel in a different article, see Jesus; the article doesn't say that he was the "son of God", though that is what most Christians believe, it just says that that belief is a central part of Christian theology. Whether Jesus was God's son and whether Islam started with Adam and Eve (and, indeed, whether Adam and Eve existed) are simply not verifiable truths, and it would be inappropriate to treat them as facts in a secular, neutral encyclopedia like Wikipedia. Please ask if you have any more questions, and remember that there is no need TO SHOUT YOUR COMMENTS. Cheers, Dawn Bard (talk) 15:24, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Firstly I am not promoting anything. I pointed out that both points of view are given in the article. (What I personally believe is besides the point here. On wikipedia we use factual info and not our beliefs, just like Jesus doesn't state that he was the son of God). Secondly I have no idea where you will report the article. You are welcome to report it wherever you wish. Finally there is no need to shout.--Shahab (talk) 15:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

== Then separate your opinion from islam's. MAKE THE FACT DISCLOSED THAT YOUR OPINION IS USED AGAINST ISLAMIC OPINION BECAUSE VERIFIABLLE FACT ISNT 100% FACT BECAUSE THERES STILL FACT THAT PEOPLE CANT AND WILL NEVER VERIFY, THAT JUST MEANS HISTORIANS ARENT AS SMART AS THEY THINK THEY ARE NOW ARE THEY? .... AND IM NOT SHOUTING... JUST MAKING SURE YOU HEAR ME. THANKS..! P.S., THE FURTHER AWAY FROM TIME WE GET FROM ADAM AND EVE, THE LESS WE WILL EVER KNOW ABOUT THE TRUTH, BECAUSE THE 1ST TWO HUMANS ON EARTH KNEW THE TRUTH... NOT US. AND "ADAM" DID EXIST, ITS VERIFIABLE BECAUSE ADAM MEANS "MAN"... AND NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT, LOGICALLY, WE CAME FROM ADAM, THE 1ST MAN WHOEVER HE WAS. SO BY YOU SAYING YOU DONT KNOW IF ADAM AND EVE EXISTED ITS SILLY AND I THINK YOU NEED TO LOSE YOUR RIGHTS TO PROMOTE WHAT YOU BELIEVE AS "FACT"ET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT SIR... I AM MUSLIM BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN IM NOT HUMAN... HUMANS GET UPSET AND YOU'VE MADE ME UPSET WITH THAT NON FACT OF A STATEMENT... THANKS ANYWAYS...

As Shahab pointed out to you above, the Muslim view is addressed in the article. The second paragraph of the reads:

Muslims believe that God revealed the Qur'an to Muhammad, God's final prophet, through the angel Gabriel, and regard the Qur'an and the Sunnah (words and deeds of Muhammad) as the fundamental sources of Islam. They do not regard Muhammad as the founder of a new religion, but as the restorer of the original monotheistic faith of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets. Islamic tradition holds that Jews and Christians distorted the revelations God gave to these prophets by either altering the text, introducing a false interpretation, or both.

The Muslim point of view has been addressed, in spite of your LOUD, REPEATED assertions to the contrary. Please have a look at Wikipedia's policies regarding neutral points of view, verifiability, and civility. Dawn Bard (talk) 20:59, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

lol thanks, you just made me upset by saying Adam isnt a verifiable fact, thats like saying youre not sure yet if you really exist. and we had to start from one man, counting starts at one, not 20. exerything starts at 1. Adam=Man... your "facts" are slightly off... but i see what your saying... thanks.HameedKhalil (talk

Well, actually, there's no proof that there was ever one human. Because logically, in the theory of evolution, evolution does not instantly occur, i.e. there was never a baby born where one could say: "okay, you're a human but your parents are not." but I suppose you were referring to the theory of creationism? --Île flottant (talk) 23:29, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

If you get upset because someone says one of your beliefs is just a belief then you need to step back and reconsider whether it is appropriate for you to be editing this article. Try to maintain a balanced point of view. I mean, from my perspective Muhammad was a heretic but that is purely my belief. If I was to get offended when other people said he wasn't or so on then how would I be able to edit constructively? We need to detach ourselves sometimes. It isn't always easy ofcourse but it is necessary. Gavin (talk) 23:42, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Odd sentence

Can someone explain the following sentence: "In Islamic theology, divine preordainment does not suggest an absence of God's indignation against evil, because any evils that do occur are thought to result in future benefits men may not be able to see." If anything the two ideas (that God remains indignant about the existence of evil, or that God allows evil because it leads to future benefits) seem contradictory. Sestibel (talk) 06:59, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi point taken, this sentence is very ambiguous, so I have removed the sentence temporarily, can we make it read as "In Islamic theology, divine pre-ordainment does not suggest an absence of God's indignation against evil, because any evils that do occur are thought to result from man exercising free will" NëŧΜǒńğer^{Peace Talks} 06:54, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Odd wording of first paragraph

I'd like to make a suggestion for an edit of the first sentence of the article. Split it in half. "Islam (Arabic: الإسلام‎ al-’islām, pronounced [ʔislæːm] ( listen)[note 1]) is a monotheistic, Abrahamic religion based on the teachings of the Qur’an, a religious book considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Arabic: الله‎, Allāh), and the Islamic prophet Muhammad's personally demonstrated examples (collected through narration of his companions in the volumes of Hadith) for implementing them." Change the bolded section to read: "religion. It is based". Overall, the entire first paragraph is extremely difficult to read, and I think that it should be revised. I noticed the same problem with Christianity and Judaism pages. While I agree that most of the information presented at the top needs to be presented at the top, it certainly could be reworded or moved around within the top. Also, do there need to be citations at the top? Shouldn't citations be moved into the interior of the article? For example the sentence that explains the word islam and notes that it is a homograph. EVEN the Etymology and meaning section doesn't state that the word is a homograph. Why is the intro more specific than the sections? One particularly confusing sentence that shouldn't be in the top: "The word Muslim is the participle of the same verb of which Islām is the infinitive."

Friedman and Lewis References

Friedman and Lewis has been referred extensively in the article but when I checked the ref tag I can only find the authors name and the page number, there is no mention of the book(s) that it is quoted from. Does anyone know the name(s) of the book(s), which are used here? Unless the names of the books are provided we should replace these references with different ones. NëŧΜǒńğer^{Peace Talks} 07:52, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Breast / intelligence

In the Etymology and meaning section, Netmonger has changed the translation of an extract from Al-An'am (6:125) from "expands his breast" to "expands his intelligence". The new version is nonsensical when restored to the context of the ayah, which goes on to explain that Allah constricts the breasts of some people contemplating Islam "as if they were climbing/ascending skywards". This is a lovely poetic play on the still-common perception of the torso as the seat of feeling and thought ("heartache", "gut feeling") via the physical sensation experienced in the chest when attempting to climb a steep hill. Using the word "intelligence" utterly destroys this image, and indeed the whole concept of faith as something beyond mere intellect. Please, can this be reverted to "breast", or "chest"? David Trochos (talk) 20:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Given the lack of dissent, I've now reverted the translation to "breast". David Trochos (talk) 17:39, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

@User:David Trochos. Just an aside: This verse is considered to be one of the many scientific miracles of the Qur'an. After man was able to fly and go up in the upper layers of atmospheric air, he discovered that the higher he went up, the less oxygen and atmospheric pressure there would be, which would cause a great difficulty in breathing and constriction in the bosom. That is what the verse has stated thirteen centuries before the flight of man. 'Abd el 'Azeez (talk) 11:29, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Can't really comment on the 'intelligence' vs 'breast' debate though, however I must say that being the rich-language that Arabic is known to be, a word could have several meanings depending upon its context. 'Abd el 'Azeez (talk) 11:29, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Islamic Expansionism

Why is there no mention on this page of the fact that it is considered the duty of the adherents of this religion to spread the religion to all so-called "unbelievers" and make them adopt their beliefs and follow their "laws" by any means necessary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michele3.1415 (talk • contribs) 22:52, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Because what you say is not true.--Shahab (talk) 07:51, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Actually, even though I strongly discourage placing in the main article, Michele is more right than wrong. Check out these direct sources from the Qur'an. Qur'an 2:216, 4:65-81, 2:190-193, to state a few. These unfortunately are not taken out of context and are not mentioned in the website you provided. --Bddrey (talk) 13:24, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Well it can be argued that they are taken out of context as well. But the point to note here is that the Quran is a primary source. Primary sources are always open for interpretation. I know some people who point out verses in the Bible and conclude that it is evil. Such conclusions are at best immature & at worst venomous. WP guidelines ask for relying primarily on reliable, third-party published sources. As far as my knowledge goes, no major school of thought within Islam forces non-believers to convert by any means necessary. It is not part of the Islamic law. If I am mistaken and it is so then please use the secondary and tertiary sources from canons of Islamic law etc to add the relevant info.--Shahab (talk) 09:02, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Just to add to this (sorry, I don't know how to log in and what not), I would say that the Quran (this is going to come from the 'primary source' idea of different interpretations) needs to be considered as a whole. Much like you can't take a sentence out of context, I would argue that you can't take these sentences away from the context of the entire book. The Quran is very clear that forcing religion and conversion is not allowed. It also states that even when defending oneself (fighting is only permitted in self defense), if the other side desists, you must desist as well. The quotes you brought forth should be understood as such. 2:216 Jihad isn't an offensive war of aggression. It is inteded to always be response. 4:65-81 I'm confused by what your problem is. The first part discusses those who say they believe, but really don't. "If God asks them to sacrifice what they have, they will hesitate and not desire to do so". The defensive nature of a war is emphasized with 4:76 stating, "And how could you refuse to fight in the cause of God and of the utterly helpless men and women and children who are crying, "O our Sustainer! Lead us forth [to freedom] out of this land whose people are oppressors, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, a protector, and raise for us, out of Thy grace, one who will bring us succour!"".

Your last quoted verse, 190-193 starts off like this: "AND FIGHT in God's cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression-for, verily, God does not love aggressors.* ".

Of course this isn't me making up my own interpretation. A lot of it comes from Leopold Weiss. In the end we must remember that people's action do not necessarily sync with what they state they believe. I wouldn't be surprised if most people in the world who claim to be part of a religion haven't even full the book. I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't even read 1/2 the book, or even a 1/4th. So if we want to discuss what the religion actually says vs what people's action are, we need to be very clear about this. --User:A Person 10:13 AM 7 July 2009

Unfortunately, the words also state that if someone persecutes a Muslim, they are to slay them. Not adamantly attempt to work with them and convince them to think otherwise. So basically it says, 'if someone insults you, kill them', at least that is the consensus where i found it. However, this is a talk page, not a general conversation forum. Lets try to keep these sort of conversations to a minimum. --Bddrey (talk) 12:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Firstly there is a big jump you are making from persecution (which in the historical context of the Quran refers to mass, and often violent, systematic oppression: see Taif, Persecution of Muslims by the Meccans etc) to insult(which you seem to imply as through mere mockery and words). Secondly as I have already said we need to follow the Wikipedia Manual of Style. In particular read the section here: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(Islam-related_articles)#References. Here is a secondary source: The Quran by Oliver Leaman (see page 491). Finally, as noted by A Person above we need to consider the Quran as a whole. This page here has some more input (particularly the last few paras) although this shouldn't be taken as a source for adding info to the article.--Shahab (talk) 00:51, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Interpretation are by definition interpreted. To the protagonist there will always be good from interpreting it better, and the antagonist will find bad from interpreting it better. Unfortunately we do not know which one is the truly better interpretation for absolute truth. Therefore, one is to presume all well performed interpretations as equally truthful. This is unless one has a predetermined ideology that one is more acceptable than another, in this case interpretation is taken as factual and assumed as a natural truth instead of the correct ideology that it is an interpretation of the truth, where the defined truth is unknown.

Dr. Israr Ahmad's Theory of Revolution

Dr. Israr Ahmad has presented his Theory of Revolution in 1984 in Lahore for the establishment of an Islamic State (Khilafat) on the pattern of movement led by Prophet Muhammad (SAW). In his theory he highlighted the Non-Violent approach of the Islamic Revolution. Israr Ahmad holds the legacy of Dr. Iqbal, Maulana Azad and Maulana Moududi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fawadlauhany (talk • contribs) 18:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Dr. Israr Ahmad's Theory of Revolution

Mr. Fawad Ali Lauhany has presented an eleven staged process of revolution in his M.Phil thesis, entitled, "A Critical Analysis of Dr. Israr Ahmad's Views on Islamic Revolution". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fawadlauhany (talk • contribs) 18:51, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

14 months and counting

Stifle originally locked this article against anonymous edits on 16 May 2008. While I appreciate this is a hot button issue right up there with Judaism and Kurt Cobain, I cannot see the catchphrase of Wikipedia's anyone can edit slide by without noting that it has been over a year since anonymous edits have been allowed on this article. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 10:32, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

The appropriate forum to raise this issue is WP:RUP--Shahab (talk) 08:29, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

To anon: so get an account. Zero^talk 10:56, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

To Anon, if you have a specific change you would like to make then currently you can propose that here on the talkpage; However when wp:Flagged protection and patrolled revisions is introduced you will be able to protected articles, though your edits won't appear to the readers until they've been patrolled. ϢereSpielChequers 11:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

I have no particular edit to introduce at this time. I have a problem with "temporarily" locked articles that are locked beyond good sense. I have posted the same thing to chocolate and Judaism - X months and counting. If an article is, in the community's evaluation, best served by an indefinite lock then do so. Do not mishandle the temporary lock in order to "protect" sensitive articles. Silver does not equal gold. 71.234.215.133 (talk) 15:33, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

number of verses in the Qurʾān

There is not ONE fixed number of verses in the Q. because there are several traditions of counting, the best known difference being: is the basmala counted or not. There are many different end-of-ayas, not always resulting in a different end number, but often doing so.

One should add "some" or "according to the second Kufan system of counting" or something of the sort. 85.178.90.41 (talk) 12:24, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Jihad

you said that:

jihad is usually taken to mean military exertion against non-Muslim combatants in the defense or expansion of the Islamic state, the ultimate purpose of which is to universalize Islam.

for the expansion of Islamic state. this is totally wrong. jihad in warfare is to take back not to conquer. please change it. this would almost said that Islam is a religion that ask the believers to declare war with other countries.-a caring muslim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.121.180.248 (talk) 14:44, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

The paragraph does go on to state "Most Muslims today interpret Jihad as only a defensive form of warfare"- and historically there are issues like the military takeover of the Iberian peninsula. David Trochos (talk) 23:22, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Fastest Growing?

I'm not certain that the term "the fastest growing religion in the world." can be used as that is a very subjective statement, thus making the statement a possible violation of WP:NPOV As the article that statement is linked to suggests, "fastest growing" differs based on criterion that is being used. I see that the article is extremely well-sourced, including that particular statement, but I don't believe any religion can be said to be the fastest growing. -- Steven Williamson (HiB2Bornot2B) - talk ▓▒░ Go Big Blue! ░▒▓ 19:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I second that. In percentage terms, a religion which grows from two to four members is growing much faster than Islam, or any other "mainstream" religion. David Trochos (talk) 23:17, 20 August 2009 (UTC)