Talk:Mexico

External links

• Mexicanos en USA
• The Presidency of Mexico
• Official site of the Government of Mexico
• Chief of State and Cabinet Members
• Mexico Connect
• "Mexico". The World Factbook (2024 ed.). Central Intelligence Agency.
• Mexico from UCB Libraries GovPubs
• Mexico at Curlie
• Wikimedia Atlas of Mexico
• Mexico, an external wiki
• Template:Wikitravel
• Viva Natura: Biodiversity of Mexico

Mexican Population

according microsoft encarta 2009 the mexican population 2009 is 109.955.400, could you change please?

Communications

hi im living since always in mexico and yI will tell you that the biggest companies in telecomunications are :

1º telmex
2º unefon
3º Telefonica (movistar)

and right now other companies are getting on the business companies that began as cable companies as:

1º megacable (is more common than unefon) and is getting to be the first rival for telmex in mexico.
2ºtelecable (is being purchased by megacable little by little by sectors)
and more

well the point of this is to tell you that Axtel and Maxcom aren't players on comunication in mexico

mexico

many of our modern foods now come from mexico do to all the imigrents takeing there culter with them, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thereal21 (talk • contribs) 03:48, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

with population of 111 million, it is the 11th most populous country. Two amazeing to beleeve--all these 1s in a only place. is it be true? 70.153.208.164 (talk) 23:36, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Too many images?

This article has multiple issues, the most visible, perhaps, is the unnecessary amount of images. I've removed some myself (size has been reduced by nearly 8 KB), but I think it'd be better if there were a clear consensus concerning which images should be removed. Kraft. (talk) 03:21, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you. I have been deleting unecessary images for months! Sadly user Rahgld is to blame. He sometimes adds images that have nothing to do with Mexico, such as the one of Burbj Kalifah (world's tallest tower) or one about Voladores de Papantla is the sports section (C'mon!). Some very short sub-articles such as culture or tourism, have been stuffed with 2 or even 3 pictures in the past, something that is just too much. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 07:57, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

H1N1

In the section on Health and Education, I wanted to add http://content.glin.gov/summary/218560 so researchers can see the gamut of legal measures taken as a response to the H1N1 virus.

Reverting Rahlgd's edits

I felt I had to revert the recent edits by user Rahlgd for the following reasons: First and most upsetting, Rahlgd vandalized some numbers, such as the estimate of population in prehispanic times. Second, he continues to add pictures to an article that has already been discussed, several times in the past, as having too many of them. Third, several of the pictures suggest personal bias or conflict of interest issues. Fourth, some of the edits consist of dozens of small changes, few of them objectionable on their own, but together they add up to present the subject matter on a very different tone than what had been agreed by the community before --this is notable in the Industry and Military sections. I am sorry to revert other people's edits along with this. JorgeAranda (talk) 19:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

The numbers in the pre-hispanic times were sourced from national geographic. Also while you mean good faith in your revert you also reverted other peoples work and shouldn't have just reverted everything. If you want to get rid of some images, we should go over them instead of just reverting the whole thing. Also i am confused on how any of the images are a conflict of interest. I am going to revert the most recent edit and from there we can then decide what we should change. Rahlgd (talk) 21:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm with you Jorge. Rahlgd has been adding some dubbious information here and there, and while I personally am not against adding industry examples of success (such as Zonda), I am of adding too much pictures that are not representative of Mexico, such as the Burbj Kalifah or Aztec dancers. Rahlgd, I understand you want to portray better the image of Mexico to the world, but sometimes your edits are very childish, they lack of verifiable sources and sadly, other user might consider them objectionable due to the fact that it seems boosterism. The discussion about too many images has been long in the past... with you. You seem not to understand that a good article doesn't require that many pictures. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 22:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

I haven't been very active lately because of personal issues, but I had been thinking of reverting a number of Rahlgd's little changes myself. It's really sad that some people just don't get that Wikipedia is about verifiable, neutral content and not about promoting their very personal idea of things. Cerealito (talk) 14:08, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah okay that sounds reasonable. Okay then, i'll not add information that might sound dubious without sourcing then. Sorry if i added thing that could be portrayed in a personally advancing manner, i realize what you mean now. I must disagree on the statement that Aztec dancers don't relate to Mexico. I'm not at all advocating the removal of of the other image in the culture section but i think that there can be both without the article having too many images. Rahlgd (talk) 18:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

No one (at least NOT me) has ever said that Aztec dancers "don't relate to Mexico". Current Mexican culture is far better represented by folkloric dances. Every single Mexican state have one typical dance. No state is represented by an Aztec dance I can assure you. And nationally, Jalisco dances have always represented the country and certainly Jarabe Tapatío is one of the most known Mexican folkloric dances in the world.

Also, there is the issue of too many pictures. A subsection with only one paragraph does not need two pictures. I have erase and will continue to erase the Aztec dancer picture. It simply does not belong to a subsection of culture.AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 06:56, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Prehispanic culture is definitely an important element of Mexican culture. But Prehispanic culture is already represented throughout the article, and this "Aztec Dancer" picture is of dubious representativeness. I traced it back to its source in flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dawn_perry/1120985813/), where I found that the picture shows "Aztec dancers demonstrate for the "Queen" at "tea time" at the Bristol Renaissance Faire in Bristol, WI." It is a bizarre picture, actually, and a caricature, and I do not think it is representative of Mexico at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JorgeAranda (talk • contribs) 14:29, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I honestly believe that the Aztec dancers can be considered a relavent cultural aspect to the culture section but i do see your argument that it could be considerd none-representative of the country as a whole. However i don't believe the current picture is completely representative to Mexico as a whole either and i think massive segments of the national population would agree to neither of the pictures as being not universally representative. So i believe that both can be considered equally relevent. If we only leave either one it is not completely representative of the whole nation and will lean to one stance or the other so i think that having just one is not trully representative of the cultures that make Mexico. Rahlgd (talk) 22:57, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

You're missing out the most important point: it is a sub-article. Sub-articles should not have that many pictures. So if one picture is displayed, let it be the one that represents better the "culture" of Mexico. Aztec dancers are not better to portray Mexico than a Folkloric dance, which is far more actual and more spreaded in all of Mexico. Also our marvellous prehispanic cultures are already well represented in the article, in other sections. Using too many pictures of ancient cultures only promotes a stereotyped Mexico. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 00:43, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I only want to point out the fact that Raghld has attacked me in a very uncivil way. He went for "help" to other user talk page kinda spreading a prejudice against me. He said that I'm against native Mexicans because I find the Aztec dancer picture not suitable for the culture section. WE have given him our arguments, yet he decides to make this a personal battle. So I'm not sure how productive is to "talk" to Raghgl, when it seems that the only thing that matters to him is to get the things done his way. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 00:54, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I said that because you have made those kind of remarks against me in the past and called me a racist because i said that there were more indigenous peoples in Mexico than whites. YOU CALLED ME RACIST! If anyone has spread prejudice it's you! You had no right to call me racist against anyone just because you disagreed with what i said! I'm not even indigenous so the fact that you said i had prejudice against whites and mestizos was ridiculous and purely you venting on me because you didn't like the information that i presented! I don't think that the Aztec dancer represents a stereotype at all. In fact it seems like you just have some problem with showing the Aztec dancer because it does not adhere to the culture you have in your mind as being the "true" culture of Mexico. And in the above text you failed to mention how you were the one who said i was racist in the first place, and i did not say you are biased because you did not want the Aztec picture, i said you were biased because you called me racist for saying there are more indigenous peoples in Mexico than whites and how you kept changing the numbers in the demographics section so it would look like there are more whites than indigenous people behind my back even though the information i presented was cited and accurate information! You were the one that lied and tried to inflate the white population and then you call me racist for presenting accurate information that went against you! That is why you appear to be biased against indigenous! It also appears that you are biased against them because you won't put a picture of an indigenous dancer because you say it does not represent the culture of Mexico! IT DOES REPRESENT THE CULTURE OF MEXICO! If you think it gives Mexico the wrong image then that's a shame because it does represent Mexico and it should not make you think it's the wrong picture of Mexico for people to have. It is downright disrespectful to think of a certain aspect of Mexican culture as wrong! It's no different than saying the people that practice it are wrong! If you really think that it is a stereotype than i don't get you at all. There are indigenous dancers because there are indigenous peoples. Just because you think that it may not look good and you may think that it is a stereotype doesn't mean that it is not a true representative of a part of Mexican culture. There are indigenous peoples all over Mexico and there are still people that adhere to indigenous cultural ways, and that doesn't mean that they are not representing Mexican culture. Maybe not the culture of Mexico you know but, still it is representative of Mexican culture! If you don't think it does than i can't do anything to change that. Are you honestly saying that 30% of the population does not deserve a single picture on the culture section showing an interesting aspect of they're contribution to Mexican culture as a whole? I could say that the Jarabe Tapatío does not represent Indigenous culture of Mexico so why should that be up any more that the Aztec dancer? Rahlgd (talk) 04:10, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

My thoughts: The Aztec dancers are folkloric dancers since they are predominantly a custom of the common people (hence the name Folkloric). These dancers are also found in professional schools of dancing and theater across Mexico. They have a very wide presence all over Mexico (even in the U.S.) and vary in style from amateur to professional. I have seen Aztec and other native American style dancers perform in the prestigious Teatro Degollado in Guadalajara Jalisco alongside other folkloric dances. As the people in this discussion have already said: these sub-sections are stubs and only the most general and wide ranging elements should be used as brief narratives, details should be saved for the main articles. In short words, we must stick to the "stereotypes," that is, those images that are immediately identifiable by the widest audience possible as being Mexican for the sake of overview. Putting up an image of an Aztec dancer will not affect the article at all and they are just as legitimate as the Charro if anyone wants to argue that only Mexican folkloric images should be included.

Also, You guys have hit a very complex snag which is basically the tip of a social iceberg. I have noticed that there is an ongoing battle in the Mexican community over conflicting identities with some arguing towards the Hispanic image while the rest argue towards the indigenous image with the "mestizo" awkwardly stuck in the middle. It's no mystery that the poorest people in Mexico are the indigenous and the upper classes are predominantly white Hispanics. Mexican politics and the media contain a mostly white staff despite the fact that the majority of Mexicans are darker. The racism and racial stratification that is a legacy of colonialism is still very present in Mexican society and attitudes. Many Mexicans are just resentful of Hispanicism and want nothing to do with a Hispanic identity thus lean and identify with the indigenous ancestry and heritage and try to uproot the Hispanic element. This is happening because Mexicans are feeling discriminated in their own country as the Mexican media mostly caters to a white upper class audience and promotes a culture that feels alien and foreign to the common Mexican. This harbors a cultural cringe as a result of the upper entrepreneurial classes judging the common Mexican to be inherently inept at being independent and autonomous which causes them to have to import almost every complex and manufactured thing (technology, training, machinery etc) from Europe or the United States while at the same time diminishing incentive and initiative in Mexican society. The resulting inferiority complex is only exasperated by the government and the upper classes welcoming all types of foreign nationals while deliberately oppressing it's own people as it.

Now I think I have gone way off subject. I only wanted to give a very brief explanation of what is happening behind this seemingly simple debate. These are very murky waters in the middle of a storm so the best advice I can give here is to stick with the facts and keep idealism and opinion at bay. Keep it simple as well because if you get into too much detail you will end up with the paragraph I wrote above. The article should only include what is relevant and encyclopedic, I personally believe that pictures are better than plain text. The number of pictures should be limited to somewhere between 1 and 3 if the text is long enough, and they should be relevant to the subject. Ocelotl10293 (talk) 03:09, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Ocelotl. I also think that folkloric indigenous dances are perfectly acceptable material for the Culture section. But the picture in question (source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dawn_perry/1120985813/), from a "Renaissance Fair," is a bizarre candidate to fill this role, as it doesn't represent any culture (Amerindian or European) appropriately. JorgeAranda (talk) 15:27, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Snowfall in Sierra Madre del Sur

I have never heard of such a thing... is there a reference? Snow is common in the Trans-Mexican Volcanic Belt (a.k.a. Sierra Nevada). In fact, the picture shows pine trees, which are not common of the Sierra Madre del Sur, but are very common of the Sierra Nevada. The author of the pic, describes it as "Snow in the mountains of central Mexico", but Sierra Madre del Sur does not cross central Mexico. --the Dúnadan 16:50, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Improving the history section

I noticed that recently someone changed the history section by adding a heading that said 20th century. That got me thinking that maybe we could expand the history section and provide more in depth explanations of specific times or Era's like in the Russia article. I think this would be a great way to improve the article and it would give a lot more understanding especially if each section in the history area explained how these specific times effected the people and influenced specific cultural or societal aspects. If anyone has ideas please share them here. Thanks, Rahlgd (talk) 19:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Deleted sentence from lead

I saw AlexCovarrubias and Bambuway working on this sentence in the lead: "Despite Mexico's position as an emerging power, the increase in drug-related violence and uneven income distribution remain issues of concern."

It appears that Mexico is a middle power and an emerging market. However, when I read the whole sentence, I started to feel that it is not quite right. Here's the problem: the structure of the sentence is "Despite the fact that X is true, Y is true." The use of the word "despite" suggests that one would expect Y not to be true when X is true but that in this particular case Y is surprisingly true. If we look at the list of middle powers in the middle power article and the list of Emerging markets, there are several other countries that also have drug-related violence (Colombia) and uneven income distribution (Brazil, India, Phillipines, Indonesia). Thus, I don't think the sentence gives the reader the right impression so I deleted it. There's no problem with either half of the sentence. It's just that when joined together with "Despite", the sentence implies something that is not true which is that it is exceptional for a middle power or an emerging market to have drug-related violence and/or uneven income distribution.

--Richard S (talk) 18:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I think you're right. The sentence was misleading in many ways, especially for implying Mexico as a great power, and the idea of a drugs problem being rare for a middle power / emerging market. Bambuway (talk) 18:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I also think you're right, and I think that information doesn't belong in the lead paragraph not just for syntactical reasons. The lead paragraph should give a very broad overview of the article's topic; drug violence and income inequality are important topics in Mexican society, but I think better dealt with later in the article. So, I commend you for being bold. Moncrief (talk) 17:15, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Mexican period. Starts in 1910, not in 1821.

For some reason, the U.S. or Wikipedia considers Mexico as a country since 1821. That is a totally different and disrespectful point of view to the Mexicans'. Mexico will celebrate it's Bicentenary in 2010. For Mexicans an for nowadays Spanish too, Mexico is a country since 1910. The 100 year anniversary was in 1910. 2010 is the year of the big bicentennial celebrations. Wikipedia has to change their wrong and disrespectful point of view. In 1821 the Spaniards (the ones from Spain, the ones from Mexico considered themselves Mexicans) finally gave up and signed, but for Mexicans, this doesn't mean that they were not a country since 1910. This is true not only for Mexico, but for many other countries in Latin America, and if you have any doubt of it, Spain is going to be present in the bicentennial of all these Latin American countries. Spain also acknowledges 1910 as the big date. Why the U.S. doesn't? This is true in many references to the History of Texas, the history of Arizona, and many more, where they state that Arizona became independent from Spain in 1821. Mexicans had their own congress long before, even if the Spaniards repeteadely killed their leaders. That should be revised. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.93.16 (talk) 15:48, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Don't you mean 1810, not 1910? Moncrief (talk) 19:31, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Image cramming

Does each section really need to have as many as 8 or more pictures? There are so many pictures that they dominate the article over the text and cause the text to be squashed between loads of pictures. Many of these pictures carry little relevance to their section. There are so many pictures the article looks more like a picture book. Especially bad is where 2 pictures sit on either side with the text squashed between them both. It's a symptom of image cramming. Sections should only have pictures which are relevant to them and only as many as the section can fit. Most sections can only fit one picture comfortably, with maybe 2 for large sections or perhaps 3 for only the very largest sections. There's really no reason to have any more pictures than this per section. See other country articles such as France. Too many pictures make the article less easy to navigate when reading, make the article look worse and make it look more like a picture book. A reduction of as many as half would make the article look much less cluttered and better all round. Bambuway (talk) 19:18, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Mexico's official name is in Spanish

I am very confused and frustrated. One user is replacing the official name of Mexico to a strange version in Náhuatl language. I have reverted his changed twice but he seem not to understand. The infobox requires the official name of the country. The official name given in the Political Constitution of the United Mexican States is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos", in Spanish.

On the other hand, this "issue" has been discussed in the past and the resolution has always been that the official name is in Spanish, even if it is a de facto language not officialized in any part of the constitution. There is no other official name for the country.

AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 08:29, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I'm the person you mentioned as "One person", and I'd written the reason in the "edit summary". Again there's no federal official language of Mexico, even though Mexican Spanish is the current lingua franca. But lingua francais is by no means the official language. There're 63 government recognized "native languages", so the "|native_name = " should be filled the 63 native languages. --虞海 (Yú Hǎi) (talk) 10:36, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Right, no official language, but there is de facto language, the primary language and that is Spanish. But the most important thing here is that THERE IS an official name of the country IN SPANISH and it is "Estados Unidos Mexicanos". There is no other official and native name. The name is in Spanish because it IS the native language, the mother language of present day Mexico. AlexCovarrubias ^{( Talk? )} 10:39, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Is the Constitution of Mexico written is Spanish (or Mexican Spanish, as you may want to call it), or is it written in 64 (63 plus Spanish) languages? what is the official name in that document? Was it written (and approved/signed) in one of the native languages and then translated into Spanish and (possibly) the other 62 languages? what is the foficial name in that doc? Is it translated into 63 other languages or is it translated to 63 other langagues plus various others languages (such as English, French, etc) possibly without any other official approval? Maybe it was written in Spanish and then translated into the 63 other languages. what is the official name in those docs? You may want to call the original document the Constitution was written and signed/approved on, the official document, and work from there for what constitutes the official name of the country.

Consider also that, as it is the case with other countries, there may be more than one official language and, form there, more than one official name of the country, that is, an official country name in Spanish, an official country name in Náhuatl, and (who knows?) an official country name in English, French, German, etc for the rest of the world. Consider then what consititutes "official", Is official only something that is put out by the Federal Mexican government? Or is official also if some other official body says so? the Federal Mexican Judicial branch? the federal Mexican executive branch? or because it is the name for Mexico in the Int'l World Court of Justice? Or the UN???... maybe the United Nations has an official name for Mexico (in each of its 7 authorized languages)...?

Consider also that to the rest of the world the de facto language in Mexico is Spanish. I am not going to take the time here, but I believe we could easily find most (all?) international organizations state Spanish is the official language in Mexico IF they had to pick one from its 63 languages, just based on the fact it is the one most widely used there. This may help work out your differences. Just population the infobox field "Official county name" with one the country name in one of the 62 other recognized languages of Mexico just to make a point (in particular when Spanish is the lingua franca) doesn't do anyone any good.

Also if the issue has been discussed before, and resolved in favor of Spanish, you may want to show the wiki diff for such resolution. Issues that have received consensus among editors are very rarely changed again.

Further, be sure everyone understands (and agrees on) the difference between lingua franca (de facto) language, recognized language (or recognized native language), and official language.

Finally, I'd suggest you don't lose focus of the fact that the issue here is not, What is the official language of Mexico, but instead, what is the official name for Mexico. Regards, Mercy11 (talk) 14:32, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

I think Mercy11's approach is correct. As we know, Mexico does not have an official language, and all 63 languages are (at least in theory) equally valid. So the question is what is the official name of the country.

Let's keep in mind that the Constitution was written in Spanish. In fact, Mexico has had several constitutions through its history, and all of them have been originally written in Spanish. The Constitution refers to the country as "Estados Unidos Mexicanos".

I don't know if you could even find the Constitution written in all 63 languages. A search for Nahuatl suggests that a Nahuatl version will be published (for the first time?) this month: http://www.publimetro.cl/nota/noticias/publicaran-en-nahuatl-constitucion-mexicana/CPIjaB!Sx@zAynsSOSURIDRYug73g/

In summary, if there is such a thing as an "official name", it would be Estados Unidos Mexicanos, in Spanish. Wikipedia's own article on the Name of Mexico states as much. So Alex Covarrubias seems to be right. JorgeAranda (talk) 16:56, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

{{editsemiprotected}} 2009-2012

Typo noted:

"In the 2009-20012 Congress of the Union, seven parties are therein represented; four of them, however, have not received neither in this nor in previous congresses more than 4% of the national votes.[80]"

Should be changed to: "In the 2009-2012 Congress of the Union, seven parties are therein represented; four of them, however, have not received neither in this nor in previous congresses more than 4% of the national votes.[80]"

 Done [1] — The Earwig @ 17:57, 13 February 2010 (UTC)