User talk:Valjean

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$\star$  Some principles governing this talk page  $\star$ Please observe Wikipedia:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette here. This talk page is my territory, and I assume janitorial responsibility for it. I may, without notice, refactor comments to put like with like, correct indents, or retitle sections to reflect their contents more clearly. While I reserve the right to delete comments, I am normally opposed to doing so and use archives instead. If I inadvertently change the meaning, please contact me! When all else fails, check the edit history. -- BullRangifer (collaborate)

$\star$  Regarding posting (or reposting) of my personal info at Wikipedia  $\star$ $\star$  DON'T DO IT!!  $\star$ Lately I have become more sensitive to the posting of personal information about myself here at Wikipedia. I am the target of cyberstalking and hate mail from some pretty unbalanced people and regularly receive threats (including occasional death threats). While I don't normally have any reason to hide my true identity, any past revealings by myself on or off wiki should not be construed by others as license to do it here at Wikipedia, where only my "BullRangifer" tag should be used. My personal identity and activities off wiki should be kept separate from my user name and activities on wiki. While such revealings here have often been done innocently, I still reserve the right to delete such personal information posted here at Wikipedia by others. My own and my family's security is at stake here, and I would appreciate support in this matter. Thanks. -- BullRangifer (collaborate)

What's in a name?

Name change.

Alternative medicine critics

Please help develop this. Use the talk page.

Stephen J. Press

As you can see from this recent message, I am utterly unimpressed by SJP. He seems fully deserving of his ban. Since they slide under existing pages, I saw no objection to restoring all the edits of ModTheRod (talk · contribs · logs). Done - enjoy (or should I say retch!). You really do need to archive this page - I can recommend the MiszaBot. — [[::User:RHaworth|RHaworth]] (talk · contribs) 02:29, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, and I'll archive it right now. -- Brangifer (talk) 03:01, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

FYI

Hi, there is a review started that may be of interest to you. Thought you might be interested. Hope all is well, --CrohnieGal^Talk 12:37, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Substances used in homeopathic preparations

I recall some disputes on content such as Cayenne_pepper#Other_Uses. Do you know where the discussions are, or what the consensus was in handling such information? --Ronz (talk) 15:44, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

If you're thinking of all the disputes related to Dana Ullman's self-promotion of his book, which names just about every substance, thus allowing him (he thought) to add a link to his book in every article, well, I wasn't very involved in them. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:15, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Not a problem. I got an answer from ScienceApologist that fits policy. --Ronz (talk) 02:46, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

alternative medicine

1. the D in wp:BRD stands for discuss. you are not participating in discussion here except to instruct other editors in what they can and cannot do, and that is not a reasonable approach. please discuss the content of the page properly.
2. please DO NOT remove dispute tags that have been placed on the page without discussing and attempting to resolve the dispute.

thanks. --Ludwigs2 07:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Spinal disc herniation

Hi Brangifer! You'll see my comments at WT:MED about this article's recent edits. I've taken the liberty of extending my comments to the article's talk page and to the anon IP's talk page, to invite him/her to supply the references that were alluded to, and to you as well to supply the reasoning behind the FDA standpoint - all in the intersts of producing a balanced article! Cheers! Mattopaedia ^{Have a yarn} 01:29, 30 January 2010 (UTC) (PS - that personal info warning up the top? That's some pretty dire shit there dude! I'm sorry to hear that you've been subject to such disappointing and scary behaviour. My prayers & best wishes to you and your family! Mattopaedia ^{Have a yarn})

Wow! I just commented there, saved my edit, and the notice that a comment had been made here popped up! That's freaky timing. -- Brangifer (talk) 01:43, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Jessie Sayre

Thanks for your comments. By the way, I'm finding conflicting information regarding the circumstances of her (early) death. Princeton's library said it was after surgery for an appendectomy. But -iIt looks like the family released a statement that week stating that she was operated upon for gall bladder disease and suffered "vasco-motor failure," a phrase not often used. I'll keep looking for clearer info, but if you know an authoritative source, I'll certainly defer to your edit.Wikijsmak (talk) 18:37, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I have read the statement about surgery for an appendectomy, but don't recall reading the other info. If I find anything I'll let you know. If that information is from RSs, then both can be mentioned, and some other editor who notices the conflicting information may provide a source that clears up what seems like a contradiction (at least to laymen). -- Brangifer (talk) 18:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I also see that her husband wrote an autobiography (Glad Adventure)in 1957, but haven't yet found a place to read it; in Google Books it's just a snippet view. I'll keep looking, but if someone in your family has it, I'm sure it has more first-person primary information on her than just about anything else out there.Wikijsmak (talk) 19:47, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm absolutely certain that no one in my immediate family has the book because I'm the only one doing any genealogical research. The relationship is also distant. Jessie Woodrow Wilson Sayre and I have a common ancestor, Daniel Sayre (1666-1723). That's pretty far back! That makes me the 7th cousin of Jessie's granddaughter Harriet. I have been able to trace my ancestry back to William Sayre, b. 1452 in Bedfordshire, England. I'm related to the Sayres and Ansleys, two families who had active genealogists who documented their families quite nicely. BTW, what do you think of the photos I found? Jessie was an attractive woman whose social concerns and activism no doubt had a great deal of influence upon her famous son, the Very Rev. Francis B. Sayre, Jr.. As a top clergyman he did what he could with his enormous influence. The Sayre's were and still are a remarkable family, with many notable individuals. Another relative I've found is Janet G. Travell, M.D., who was also in the White House, but as President Kennedy's personal physician. That relationship is close enough that I inherited a box full of postcards, family pictures, and postage stamps from her uncle, a noted philatelist in San Bernardino. He was a founder of the Arrowhead Stamp Club there, which still exists. --Brangifer (talk) 01:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

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Arbitration enforcement warning: discretionary sanctions (Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy)

The Arbitration Committee has permitted administrators to impose, at their own discretion, sanctions on any editor working on pages broadly related to Homeopathy if the editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. If you engage in further inappropriate behavior in this area, you may be placed under sanctions including blocks, a revert limitation or an article ban. The committee's full decision can be read at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Homeopathy#Final decision.

This warning relates to the current WP:AE thread at [1].  Sandstein  06:06, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Alt Med

I see no need and have no interest in making any promises to you about anything - you are not my mother. Further, if you continue badgering me on the talk page with personal questions that have nothing to do with developing the article I will ask an administrator to intervene. is that sufficiently clear? --Ludwigs2 09:15, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I can understand that we should probably take the dispute to a private talk page, although the dispute was related to events occurring on that talk page, so it was natural to continue there. Preventing reocurrances of disruption by you is definitely in the interests of protecting the article from disruption. It's also abundantly clear that you are a testy and uncollaborative editor that isn't interested in seeking consensus. You haven't shown evidence that you can learn from your mistakes. That's unfortunate. -- Brangifer (talk) 14:32, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

B - you have literally done nothing on that talk page (or the article itself) except insult other editors, tell them that they are not allowed to make edits, and otherwise interfere with the concensus-building process, so please don't talk to me about being testy and uncollaborative. You are entitled to think whatever you like about me (frankly, I don't have a high enough regard for you at the moment to take it personally), and as long as you keep it off article-space edit summaries and talk pages we can move on. I will suggest generally that you stop trying to bully other editors into complying with your wishes and start communicating and editing to properly improve the article, but I will manage even if you don't, so that is entirely your choice. --Ludwigs2 19:13, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I think WP:DENY applies here. --Ronz (talk) 19:48, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Editors who don't seek consensus, but edit war instead, don't deserve recognition or a place at the editing table. Let their utterances be treated with the silence and disdain they deserve. -- Brangifer (talk) 01:08, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Spaces before/after heading labels

Hi there. I saw your changes to Skepticism. Just curious, but is there any particular reason for adding spaces before/after headings, i.e. next to the equals signs? I just tried it and it seems to make no difference: User:Tayste/Sandbox. Perhaps it's just for readability (which would be fine by me) but it doesn't seem to be stipulated in Wikipedia:MOS#Section_headings, in fact that says that bots are known to come along and remove the spaces again. Tayste (edits) 07:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It's actually not from the MoS, but is the default setting. Try starting a new section automatically by clicking the new section link and type a few letters. Then go back and edit it. You'll discover what Wikipedia's default settings are. It's built into WikiMedia's software. I do it for readability's sake, especially the blank line under the heading. The changes are invisible except when editing and don't hurt anything as they are the default settings. I don't know why anyone would make a bot change them, but it doesn't affect the appearance anyway, except to make it harder for people whose eyes are getting old. That's good enough reason to leave the default settings alone. I just checked and the default spacings are unchanged. -- Brangifer (talk) 08:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Well, you learn something new here every day! Tayste (edits) 19:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not really a big thing, which is why I have never done anything official about it. It's just a matter of convenience for myself and for others who might have trouble seeing things as clearly. My eyesight isn't bad, but I do have to use reading glasses now, which is pretty much normal for my age. When scanning a page while editing, having a blank line both above and below the heading makes it much easier to not overlook a heading. In long articles this can be a problem. -- Brangifer (talk) 20:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Backlash to chiropractic lawsuit against Simon Singh

Concerning blanked webpages, are you aware of archive.org? — Robert Greer (talk) 00:48, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

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Quotes suggestion

You could use some Eastern quotes on your core page. Try Lao Tzu, Confuscious, Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Tien Tai, Tokugawa Ieyasu, Admiral Yamamoto Tsunetomo,proverbs, etc... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiggalama (talk • contribs) 03:56, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Why? Do you have some specific suggestions? -- Brangifer (talk) 03:59, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

RE: Merging SPI

Hi there BullRangifer, the SPI case that you opened has been merged with a case opened by Hroðulf, if you go here you can see the two SPI cases: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/86.45.71.28, hope that clears it up? Kindest regards, Spitfire^Tally-ho! 15:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Old socks

Not every IP is a sock. You just raised the flag on a post that was almost two years old. You might want to strike that out.Novangelis (talk) 04:07, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

True enough. Shall we call it the IP of a blocked user based on location and subject ;-) ? Note that it's the same subject raised by the same user at a previous time. -- Brangifer (talk) 04:31, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Given in that instance, there were no other comments for a month, it's weak. The duck test has to be tempered by assuming good faith. An edit from an IP is not necessarily a sock, even in a sequence. Sometimes you see three reverts followed by an IP, or a block followed by IP change; that's clear. A solitary IP edit where there is no strict 3RR/24h violation or block, isn't a hard violation. If the rules wouldn't be breached if the user claimed the edit, I'd give the benefit of the doubt. It is always possible that the editor forgot to log on. Alternate accounts are legal, so a solitary IP edit, without a clear effort to bypass the rules, may walk like a duck, but you have to wait until you hear it quack before you can (and should) nail it to the wall.Novangelis (talk) 05:36, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

As you may have noticed, I immediately removed my remark after answering you above. The duck test is extremely strong for it being the same person behind Wiggalama. Let's hope they learn something from their block and return a better editor, but their behavior and insults indicate an immature editor, so nothing would surprise me. They have been repeatedly blocked and have an unfortunate tendency to remove warnings and then (apparently) ignore them. Yes, they "heard" the warnings, but didn't internalize them. That's a key trait of a disruptive and uncollaborative editor. As long as they behave when they return, they'll have no troubles from me. We can hope they have the ability to learn and improve. -- Brangifer (talk) 06:10, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Paul Offit

I removed the direct quotes from anti-vaxxers not to whitewash them but because they were WP:undue ; there could no doubt be collected a lot of random statements from speeches and blogs in support of him, but we wouldn't bother. Martinlc (talk) 15:36, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't agree. The controversies have been quite public and have been covered by numerous V & RS. It would be undue if we gave the vaccine critics too much coverage, but that was very minimal coverage and exposes their rabid agenda. I am in the process of finding some other statements of support for him, as that aspect wasn't covered at all. -- Brangifer (talk) 00:42, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Propagation of the Absurd: demarcation of the Absurd revisited

In an article in The Medical Journal of Australia, Sampson and Atwood wrote about the inroads CAM is making as the "propagation of the absurd":

"The Absurd has gained a degree of agency and respect in some quarters of society through the CAM movement... The guardians that usually keep the institution of medicine from reeling off into irrationality are social contracts built into medical science and ethical behaviour. The academic community guards the contractual borders of science, while laws and regulations encode our ethical system. For the Absurd to have advanced, there must have been some breakdown of these social guardians. Postmodernism has promoted breakdown and reorientation of structured forms of thought. One of its guises is language distortion — the redefinition and use of words to fit personal views. For example, alternative and complementary have been substituted for quackery, dubious and implausible. Another is the invention of integrative medicine — designed to leapfrog methods into practice without need for proof... Postmodernism creates an atmosphere in which absurd claims are accepted more readily because they have simply been renamed... Postmodern CAM also tolerates contradiction without need for resolution through reason and experiment, resulting in a medical pluralism.... Implausible proposals and claims become tolerable and comfortable, and the CAM advocate’s burden of proof is shifted to disproof by the science community, which that community accepts without major objection. These are constructions designed for propagation of the Absurd... The new sociolegal order also shows breakdown of classical ethics. CAM followers declare it to be ethical to perform clinical trials on scientifically implausible treatments — merely because the treatments are popular."

Simple Wikipedia

Hi BR, I have no idea what the SW's rules are. I assume the same as ours, but I'm not familiar with it. I'll take a look at the edits, but not sure what I can do. SlimVirgin ^{TALK contribs} 03:55, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Aren't you an admin there? -- Brangifer (talk) 04:01, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Global warming

Thank you for your contributions to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed, Global warming, is on article probation. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Climate change probation. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.

The above is a templated message. Please accept it as a routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits. Thank you. -- TS 02:14, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Tony. Thanks for the notification. I don't think I've ever been involved in those matters. I only removed obvious policy violations. If you're concerned about my edits, please let me know what I might have done wrong so I don't do it again. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:20, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Hey there BR, I thought I would answer your question above since this is a standard warning. Everyone who edits any of the articles within the Global warming articles gets one of these templates since the articles went on watch because of the editing that is quite heated there with some of the editors. You didn't necessarily do anything other than edit there which is what brought the notice to your talk page. Again, anyone who edits in the GW articles will receive this template, so don't worry about what you did. I hope this helps, --CrohnieGal^Talk 11:41, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. -- Brangifer (talk) 14:39, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

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Mediumship ‎

I may be making a mistake, but I am unable to find any assertion in the source that science refutes the existence of spirits etc. Could you show me the exact wording? If it is just oversight on my part then I apologise. I disagree with the statement anyway, given that science is not a body of authority but a method of investigation, and should make no decision about something not existing, I can't help but believe that a scientist wouldn't be so quick to this conclusion. A skeptic, yes, but not a scientist. Macromonkey (talk) 15:39, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

You are correct about the source. The source mentions "communication with the dead", but that particular page (others from that source do) doesn't deal with spirits. Other sources should be used to bolster that part of the statement. I'll fix that for you. As to science, it deals with what is proveable, and doesn't use much effort on what isn't proveable. Religion deals with that. If it hasn't been proven using the scientific method, it belongs in the realm of religion and metaphysics. It needs to be falsifiable in order to be classifiable as a scientific subject. Since extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, the claimed existence of spirits is usually ignored by laboratory scientists, but activist scientists (skeptics) may deal with it. It's up to believers to prove their existence, and such extraordinary proof hasn't been provided in a manner that convinces the scientific community. If it had, we wouldn't have this discussion. -- Brangifer (talk) 03:30, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Apologies, I may have not articulated my view correctly. I believe that scientists should not refute the existence so explicitly. Whilst it has not been proven, suggestive evidence has been given, yet is unfortunately often ignored because of the stigma attached to parapsychology. So whilst there is no conclusive proof, there is enough for it to be considered possible, however 'unlikely'. As such, stating that science shows us that spirits do not exist would be incorrect, and as you put it, if proof against spirits had be given, 'we wouldn't have this discussion'.

Additionally, requiring 'believers' to provide proof is illogical, since any proof given would be considered void due to the fact that it comes from such a source, not to mention the fact that it is the job of scientists to investigate phenomena fairly, not leave others to prove it. Finally, the 'extraordinary proof' is a typical mantra of skepticism, a true and fair method of investigation should treat everything equally and without bias. Thanks Macromonkey (talk) 23:12, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

P.S I've seen the correction to the article which I can now deal with, it is phrased more diplomatically. Macromonkey (talk) 23:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)