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[[User:Eisangelia|Eisangelia]] ([[User talk:Eisangelia|talk]]) 20:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
[[User:Eisangelia|Eisangelia]] ([[User talk:Eisangelia|talk]]) 20:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

== 5 Uniqueness of the Nazi Holocaust ==

Why does this section exist, it seems to have no context and no real point.

Revision as of 01:10, 8 June 2010

Former good article nomineeThe Holocaust was a History good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 9, 2005Featured article candidateNot promoted
January 19, 2006Good article nomineeListed
July 5, 2006Good article reassessmentKept
November 16, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
May 3, 2007Good article reassessmentDelisted
June 11, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
October 3, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

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Reporting the News

I have added a few sentences to section on news reporting on the Final Solution in the U.S., based on the NY Times 150th anniversary acknowlegement that they purposefully minimized and obfuscated the news, and the work of Laurel Leff and Deborah Lipstadt. i have linked to another wiki article, The New York Times and the Holocaust. That page is under severe attack by a couple of people who think this is not a mainstream topic, and keeps being gutted, so link at any time is not to the full article.Cimicifugia (talk) 18:51, 24 May 2010 (UTC)cimicifugia[reply]

Proposed rewrite of "Origins"

Origins

See also: Antisemitism, Christianity and antisemitism, Martin Luther and antisemitism, and Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses
At 10 a.m. on April 1, 1933, members of the Sturmabteilung moved into place all over Germany, positioning themselves outside Jewish-owned businesses to deter customers. These stormtroopers are outside Israel's Department Store in Berlin. The signs read: "Germans! Defend yourselves! Don't buy from Jews." ("Deutsche! Wehrt Euch! Kauft nicht bei Juden!")[2] The store was ransacked during Kristallnacht in 1938, then handed over to a non-Jewish family.

From the Middle Ages onward, German society and culture were suffused with anti-Semitism and some scholars maintain that there was a direct link from medieval pogroms to the Nazi death camps of the 1940s.[3][4][5]

Hans Küng has written that "Nazi anti-Judaism was the work of godless, anti-Christian criminals. But it would not have been possible without the almost two thousand years' pre-history of 'Christian' anti-Judaism..."[6]

A more immediate reason for anti-Semitism in Germany was the resentment generated by the high profile status of Jews in German society. Although Jews were less than 1% of Germany’s population, Jews

  • were 22% of German lawyers [7]
  • were 16.5% of German doctors [8]
  • were 50% of theatre directors [9]
  • owned 41% of German iron firms and 57% of other metal businesses [10]
  • sold 26% of all retail sales despite being only 6% of retailers. [11]

Anti-semites persistently used this evidence to claim that the Jews “enjoyed an unfair and privileged status”. [12] In Mein Kampf (1925), Hitler had been open about his hatred of Jews, and gave ample warning of his intention to drive them from Germany's political, intellectual, and cultural life. He did not write that he would attempt to exterminate them, but he is reported to have been more explicit in private.

The Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany on January 30, 1933, and the persecution and exodus of Germany's 525,000 Jews began almost immediately. The Nuremberg Laws were justified by stating that “[a] self-respecting nation cannot, on a scale accepted up to now, leave its higher activities in the hands of people of racially foreign origin” [13]

I also think the speculative Hitler quote has to go. It is highly unlikely that Hitler would have admitted to planning the annihilation of Jews to anyone not in his inner circle. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 21:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The section is generally correct, in my view. It could be expanded by explaining how the antisemitism of the Nazis, based on a racist ideology, was different from the medieval antisemitism, yet of course the existence of traditional hatred and discrimination against Jews facilitated racist antisemitism taking root. Hitler was quite explicit in Mein Kampf. We should use a quote from that book in preference to the quote that is now in the article. The current quote could create the impression that the Holocaust somehow mainly happened because Hitler wanted it to happen.  Cs32en Talk to me  21:44, 7 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Serbs

Can someone please add Serbs to the list of minorities killed at the top? More Serbs were killed than Romani, so it doesn't make sense not to have them listed too. I think it would be only fair, since there are half a million Serb civilian deaths at least. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.111.242.152 (talk) 13:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that the Ustashe regime in Croatia is not analysed consistently. The Serb victims are very rarely included amongst the Holocaust victims, but the Jewish victims are. I agree that it makes no sense, but that's what academics do and I'm not sure if Wikipedia can overturn that. Epa101 (talk) 09:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The new York times policy to suppress news of the Holcaust

Please join the discussion in Talk:The New York Times and the Holocaust#Seeking Consensus. The only people working on the page right now are the original author and three people who wanted to delete the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cimicifugia (talk • contribs) 15:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Source Misrepresented-Correction Needed

Please remove from article – The source was misrepresented by your editor

From a Chinese perspective, the Japanese occupation of parts of China from 1931 to 1945 which occasioned the killings of 30 million Chinese, has been called a "Super Holocaust".

The source given was

The super holocaust (in China): remember : 9/18 and the Rape of Nanking By Dan Winn,

This book was NOT published by Peking University Press- It was self published by a Vanity press and does not belong on Wikipedia

See details at Amazon [1]

Please read your rules: Wikipedia:Verifiability# Self-published sources (online and paper)

Thank you--Ojos de Lince (talk) 17:13, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Etymology and use of the term

I am puzzled by this statement which appears at the end of the subject section:

Shoah is preferred by many Jews for a number of reasons, including the theologically offensive nature of the word holocaust, as a Greek pagan custom.

This appears to assert a startling confusion of fact.

Walter Burkert, the usual authority, directly contradicts the belief that Holocaust was a Greek, and not Jewish practice. He points out that the pair of lambs at the heart of their Jewish sacred ritual were completely consumed by fire. Based on Burkert's comments, the Greeks were surprised at this generosity to the [G]od because their own practice was to reserve the edible portions for their own consumption, except in some rare funerary traditions. So, it would appear that it was the Jews, and much less frequently the Hellenes, who practiced Holocaust in ancient times. Please see Burkert's Greek Religion, 1985, Harvard Page 63.

I propose a small change to the sentence cited above.

Shoah is preferred by many Jews for a number of reasons, including the theologically offensive nature of the word holocaust, which they believe to be Greek pagan custom.

This version preserves the report that some object and their reason, but does not itself assert that Holocaust was a Greek pagan custom foreign to the Jews.

Eisangelia (talk) 20:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

5 Uniqueness of the Nazi Holocaust

Why does this section exist, it seems to have no context and no real point.

  1. ^ Friedländer 1997, p.102
  2. ^ UMN.edu, "Boycotts", Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies, University of Minnesota. Retrieved September 6, 2006.
  3. ^ Yehuda Bauer- A History of the Holocaust, 1982
  4. ^ Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews, 1961.
  5. ^ Lucy Dawidowicz, The War Against the Jews, 1975
  6. ^ Hans Küng, On Being a Christian (Doubleday, Garden City NY, 1976), p. 169.
  7. ^ JR Marcus 1934: The rise and destiny of the German Jew, Union of American Hebrew Congregations, Cincinnati. P. 121)
  8. ^ R Proctor 1988: Racial hygiene: Medicine under the Nazis, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Mass. P.149)
  9. ^ Hitler, Germans and the “Jewish question”, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey. P. 11-14
  10. ^ S Gordon 1984: Hitler, Germans and the “Jewish question”, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey. P. 11-14
  11. ^ A Barkai 1989: From boycott to annihilation: The economic struggle of German Jews, 1933-1943, translated by W Templer, University Press of New England, Hanover, New Hampshire p. 7)
  12. ^ BF Pauley 1987: “Political anti-Semitism in interwar Vienna” in I Oxaal, M Pollack and G Botz (editors) Jews, anti-Semitism and culture in Vienna, Routledge & Kegan Paul, London, pp.155.
  13. ^ The explanation in the Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung of April 27, 1933 for the law enacted by the Nazi government of Germany to restrict the proportion of Jewish students at German universities.
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