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{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vo Binh Dinh}}
{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vo Binh Dinh}}
{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keisuke Fujiwara}}
{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Keisuke Fujiwara}}
{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pierre Kirby}}
{{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fabiano Scherner}}
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Revision as of 17:30, 24 June 2010

Deletion Sorting
Project

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Martial arts. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

Adding a new AfD discussion
Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
  1. Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
  2. You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Martial arts|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
Removing a closed AfD discussion
Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
Other types of discussions
You can also add and remove other discussions (prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Martial arts. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{prodded}} will suffice.
Further information
For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.


Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:
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Martial arts

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Tone 22:07, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Mickey N. Fisher

Mickey N. Fisher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Proposed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Martial_arts/Article_Review 19th May 2010, User:Jmcw37 as secretary.
WP:NRVE Wikipedia:WPMA/N "No reliable sources found to verify notability" jmcw (talk) 12:00, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 17:50, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Williams (aikido)

Michael Williams (aikido) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Proposed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Martial_arts/Article_Review 19th May 2010, User:Jmcw37 as secretary.
WP:NRVE Wikipedia:WPMA/N "No reliable sources found to verify notability" jmcw (talk) 11:17, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If he's big in Australia and internationally, it should be easy to find independent sources. The fact that none have been found makes him look non-notable to me. Astudent0 (talk) 22:05, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 12:33, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was delete. The recent trend has been to delete unsourced BLPs and this is a cleatly barely notable individual where there is not much in the way of sourcing. There are two applicable guidelines, GNG and ATHLETE as well as a local consensus on a wikiproject that does not have wide consensus. In the heirarchy of guidelines N/GNG is senior to ATHLETE and what we have remains essentially an unsourced BLP. Spartaz Humbug! 05:15, 10 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Neil Wain

Neil Wain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Non-notable fighter. Fought 1 fight for a major production and was knocked out in 90 seconds, then didn't fight again for 15+ months. Clearly not "fully professional" so he fails WP:ATH. More importantly, he fails the MMA fighter notability criteria at Wikipedia:WikiProject Mixed martial arts/MMA notability. Papaursa (talk) 01:20, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well he clearly is fully professional, considering he's got a professional record, so I'd be careful about choice of words here. Has also fought once at the VERY top level. Whether he got KOd in a certain amount of time is irrelevant, as he still competed in the UFC. Has also fought a notable in Broughton and is still fighting now, where he's progressed to the next round of the Abu Dhabi tournament. However, a strict reading of WP:MMANOT fails him. Taking all of that into account, I'm going with neutral, leaning towards keep. Paralympiakos (talk) 01:29, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete IMO, a handful of fights, only one of which is in a notable promotion doesn't qualify as fully professional. (Professional yes, not fully.) Google search is a repetition of fighter profiles/records and stories about his one UFC fight. Not notable, IMO. --TreyGeek (talk)
My own view on this phrase is that you're either professional or you're not. I don't think there's levels. Paralympiakos (talk) 02:08, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I once played disc golf at a tournament in a professional division (as opposed to an amateur division). Therefore, you would consider me a professional disc golf player. However, I made little money and didn't make a living at it. Therefore, I wouldn't be a fully professional disc golf player. --TreyGeek (talk) 02:55, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Professional should not just be the level, but also how if they make their living out of it. Also a this was also an under-card/peliminary fight (even though it was aired) so agian leaning towards not TOP level, i.e. main card, v few fighers have only one appearnce and that's main card unless they already fought in other high level promotions (pride/dream/strike force) before coming to the UFC. --Natet/c 11:46, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I think it is important to remember that WP:MMANOT is not policy and not absolute. Your assertion that he fails WP:ATH is incorrect. He fought in one fight at the fully professional level, ergo he competed at the fully professional level, ergo he qualifies under point no. 1. Movementarian (Talk) 06:06, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I would claim (and have before) that "fully professional" means you're making a living at it. By that criteria, he's never been fully professional. This discussion as well as the ones for WP:MMANOT have taken place at the topic's talk page. You're right that it's not absolute, but it does reflect the consensus of those most interested (and familiar) with the topic. I've been paid for things I've written, but I don't consider myself a professional writer. Papaursa (talk) 17:27, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have is financials available, so I can't speak to whether he is solely supported by fighting. I take it to mean an appearance at the top level, which he has done. I'll admit this is a weak case, but some parity should be achieved for sports related bios. Competing, however briefly, at the top level is pretty standard across the board. I see no reason why that shouldn't be applied here. Movementarian (Talk) 05:19, 26 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Since he went over 15 months without fighting, I'd say it was safe to say it wasn't his livelihood. As far as being consistent, the criteria for martial artists (WP:MANOTE) says "Olympic medalist" or "Finalist, especially a repeated one, in another significant event;- (e.g. competitors from multiple nations". That seems a bit more than having one fight, so he doesn't meet the criteria for MMA fighters or martial artists. Papaursa (talk) 05:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. I was trying to be funny with the financials comment. The WP:MANOTE seems more in keeping with the general guideline for amateur sport. I think this one could be argued either way. Going back to baseball, anyone that appears in the MLB gets in. I'll admit it is a low bar, but it isn't like we are running out of space. Movementarian (talk) 14:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I enjoyed the financials comment. FYI--My experience is that most martial arts competitions don't differentiate between amateur and professional. There's generally prize money at even the smallest events. That's why the real criteria is competing at the highest level. Papaursa (talk) 23:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just making sure I didn't offend. Sometimes jokes don't travel well through cyberspace. I see where you are coming from and I think our disagreement really comes down to the word "compete". I see the intent as including anyone that has appeared at the top level of their sport. I would like to see this addressed in a wider forum at WP:NSPORTS. Two of us going back and forth isn't exactly creating consensus. Movementarian (talk) 03:55, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Two thoughts, Baseball is (I will grugingly admit) more popular than MMA (for now...) so the same bar is not as relevant; that said I also think that the bar for many sports of 'play 10 minutes as a substitute' at pro level is way too low. --Natet/c 10:21, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. I don't think the popularity of a sport has anything to do with notability. The bar for athletes is low, but this guy meets WP:ATH. Movementarian (talk) 22:09, 1 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Weak Keep - Meets WP:ATHLETE. ----moreno oso (talk) 02:51, 2 July 2010 (UTC) [reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NativeForeigner Talk/Contribs 05:47, 2 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 04:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Max Williams-Forbes

Max Williams-Forbes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Proposed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Martial_arts/Article_Review 19th May 2010, User:Jmcw37 as secretary.
WP:NRVE Wikipedia:WPMA/N "No reliable sources found to verify notability" jmcw (talk) 13:33, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 04:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Masanao Takazawa

Masanao Takazawa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Proposed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Martial_arts/Article_Review 19th May 2010, User:Jmcw37 as secretary.
WP:NRVE Wikipedia:WPMA/N "No reliable sources found to verify notability" jmcw (talk) 13:19, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. T. Canens (talk) 02:32, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Vo Binh Dinh

Vo Binh Dinh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Unreferenced article that gives no reason why its subject is notable. Geocities and Wikipedia are not reliable sources. Contested PROD.   — Jeff G. ツ 15:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have any sources that talk about the art other than in a passing mention? Its existence isn't in question, only its notability. Papaursa (talk) 23:15, 20 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Uncertain. Not sure these two do either.[4][5] I'm just very hesitant to apply strict standards to things in the Third World because their Internet presence is obviously going to be less. Still I'll back off a bit.--T. Anthony (talk) 11:49, 21 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need to back off. If you can provide sources showing notability, even if they're not on the internet, I'd be happy to change my vote. Even if the article is deleted, it can be recreated if you can provide sourcing. Papaursa (talk) 01:04, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. –MuZemike 00:41, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keisuke Fujiwara

Keisuke Fujiwara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Fails WP:MMANOT Paralympiakos (talk) 11:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He's fought in DREAM which is notable--KEWLONION (talk) 18:40, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One fight does not make you notable. Papaursa (talk) 00:14 ta19 June 2010 (UTC)

Alright, but I want to know if I can bring up the issue about DEEP and ZST being notable somewhere, can someone help me where to debate that --KEWLONION (talk) 18:41, 19 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The place to bring this up is Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mixed martial arts. The goal there is to find consensus about what constitutes a "notable" MMA organization (besides UFC). Papaursa (talk) 01:01, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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The result was Keep ---Balloonman NO! I'm Spartacus! 02:48, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fabiano Scherner

Fabiano Scherner (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD • AfD statistics)
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Does not cite any reliable sources. Contested PROD.   — Jeff G. ツ 03:38, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note Google turns up just over 900 results on a search for Fabiano "Pega-Leve" Scherner. Some of these sources seem to be respected within MMA circles, but I won't make any claim to kow this for sure, or claim that they defintely do stand up as reliable resources. Darigan (talk) 11:10, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Some links on article talk page Darigan (talk) 11:13, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Subject has multiple fights in high level promotions (UFC and IFC) make him notable, IMO. The article does need a lot of cleanup, removal of "rumors" and most especially references added. --TreyGeek (talk) 13:43, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - not the most comfortable keep ever, but the fighter does JUST make WP:MMANOT on the organisational level. Is worth noting that the fighter has competed against a handful of really notable fighters. Paralympiakos (talk) 23:17, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Just a p.s., I'm watchlisting him (can't believe I hadn't before) and will go about sourcing/cleanup once safety is confirmed (don't want a load of unneeded deleted edits). Paralympiakos (talk) 23:36, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep – It's difficult to determine at what point an MMA competitor is notable since there are so many organizations, many of them at a minor level. Reminds me of boxing, with its many titles, only a few of which are really important. In this case, I believe that given his UFC appearances, the subject is notable under WP:ATHLETE. I wouldn't make that argument for fighters who've only competed in low-level promotions, but the UFC is the highest level of the sport, and multiple appearances there (including one on a main card) are enough to convince me of his notability. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:24, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Article has also been tagged as an unreferenced BLP. Personally, I think he's just short of notability according to a strict reading of WP:MMANOT. However, if his world championships in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu can be sourced, then he's clearly notable. Papaursa (talk) 02:04, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep. Can't take a position on whether he meets the WP:MMANOT or more general WP:ATHLETE standard, but the Google News numbers (and the sources listed therein) may be enough to meet the general notability guidelines.--PinkBull 01:57, 25 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Proposed deletions

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