Talk:Joseph Stalin

Please stop copying other articles into this article

In later years he was refering to himself as "Russian" simply. Several subarticles were made last month to cut down the length of this article, such as:

• Stalin before the Revolution
• Stalin in the Revolution and early wars
• Stalin's rise to power

Wermacht

Correct spelling is Wehrmacht, as per the WP entry.

Name translations ?

User:Kurzon has reverted my removal 3 times now, and so I wanted to provide him a place to provide his rationale (and for other editors to chime in with their views) for why it is essential to include Stalin's name in 5 different translations. Currently, above his main photo it states:

Joseph Stalin

Иосиф Виссарионович СталинIosif
Vissarionovich Stalin
იოსებ ბესარიონის ძე ჯუღაშვილი

Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili

Now, I am have not seen any Wiki based precedence for this sort of practice, and I believe that it does not enhance the article, but rather might confuse a potential reader. Kurzon, why do you believe we should include 5 translations, and why these? No word yet on Stalin's name in Sanskrit or Egyptian Hieroglyphics.   Redthoreau -- (talk) 03:40, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

A comment: what is written above is 3 different names of that person, in three languages (English, Russian and Georgian) and the last two have their English transliterations. This information is important, but I don't know where it suits best in the article. His original name იოსებ ბესარიონის ძე ჯუღაშვილი is in Georgian, which conventionally should be included, with its English transliteration (as few people can read Georgian). Иосиф Виссарионович Сталин is another name, which he chose for most of his life. It is again transliterated because not everyone reads Cyrillic. Joseph Stalin is how he is called in the English texts. (but is not his name, actually) Materialscientist (talk) 04:03, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I find its better to put these non-Latin names in the infobox, because jamming them into the paragraphs makes it difficult to read and maintain the main text.Kurzon (talk) 08:36, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

It seems to be quite inconsistent with other articles, where names in original languages are provided in the article itself not in infobox, and without transliterations. Furthermore there is no link or other info about what languages are those 5 mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.90.130.15 (talk) 23:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for my English. May be it's better make the beginning like in russian versions: "Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin (real surname - Jughashvili, in russian - Иосиф Виссарионович Сталин (Джугашвили), 18 December 1878[2] – 5 March 1953). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.16.215.122 (talk) 20:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Also, the correct english spelling of stalin's first name is Josef, not Joseph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monkeyman479 (talk • contribs) 23:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Any politician who uses an alias has got to be a bit dodgy.

Edit request by Justus Maximus, 5 October 2010

Death and aftermath:

(1) On Stalin being afraid of Beria: ”Stalin was ‘afraid of Beria’, thought Khrushchev, ‘and would have been glad to get rid of him but didn’t know how to do it.’ Stalin himself confirmed this, sensing that Beria was winning support…”. Simon Sebag Montefiore, Stalin, 2003, p. 548. Cf. Nikita Khrushchev, Khrushchev remembers, 1971, pp. 250, 311.

(2) On Beria spitting at Stalin: Simon Sebag Montefiore, Stalin, 2003, p. 571. Justus Maximus (talk) 15:39, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 90.200.143.6, 5 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Please change Joseph Stalin to Josef Stalin; The wikipedia spelling is incorrect.

90.200.143.6 (talk) 17:59, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: This has been discussed several times in the talk pages (see the archives) and has been agreed on Joseph. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 22:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Wordage

How come this atricle uses the words communism and socialism when by definition, communism means no government and socialism means government control for the best of everyone. Just because he calls himself these words means that is what he is? --24.94.251.190 (talk) 02:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Edit request by Justus Maximus, 16 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}}

I request the following changes to be made in the section Death and aftermath:

(1) On Stalin being afraid of Beria:

”Stalin was ‘afraid of Beria’, thought Khrushchev, ‘and would have been glad to get rid of him but didn’t know how to do it.’ Stalin himself confirmed this, sensing that Beria was winning support…”. Simon Sebag Montefiore, Stalin, 2003, p. 548. Cf. Nikita Khrushchev, Khrushchev remembers, 1971, pp. 250, 311.

(2) On Beria spitting at Stalin:

Simon Sebag Montefiore, Stalin, 2003, p. 571. Justus Maximus (talk) 11:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: You appear to have been here long enough to be autoconfirmed and able to edit this article. Celestra (talk) 13:59, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Ok then. I've included the missing references. Justus Maximus (talk) 13:13, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Psycopath (Sociopath)

The fact that Stalin was a sociopath incapable of feeling compassion for others should be the basis of a section in the article. There are numerous quotes from him commenting on his lack of any feeling for others taken years before he ever rose to power. The fact that he was a sociopath (also referred to as 'psychopath') is the single most important fact about his life, and about his history as a leader. It is not periphrial, it is not anecdotal, it is central to his story.

24.8.177.59 (talk) 22:21, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Stalin was absolutely normal psychologically. Nobody has ever proved otherwise, and we have nothing serious on this ridiculous POV but speculations or quotes from personal enemies of Stalin, like Khruschev. GreyHood ^Talk 22:54, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Historical figures who knew Stalin have described him fairly uniformly as domineering, Machiavellian, devious, manipulative, vindictive, and paranoid, a picture which is fairly consistent across the field of reminiscences. However, whether any of these traits rose to the level of any psychiatric disorder is almost certainly not an answerable question now, and in any case those in a position to describe him generally had strong motives to revile him and/or distance themselves from him. It's going too far to say that he was a sociopath, and it's also going too far to declare that he was 'absolutely normal psychologically' (whatever that phrase may mean). What we do know is that he was human, and any of the traits I mentioned may well have been either appropriate responses to, or preconditions for prevailing in, the particular environment of the upper echelons of the CPSU in the early part of its history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.107.160.80 (talk) 03:18, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, sociopathy is totally not the same thing as psychopathy MemoryLapse (talk) 04:25, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request: a factual error about invasions

"Soviet invasion of Poland, Finland, the Baltics"

Which isn't true: He tried to invade Finland but failed. Managed to grab about 100 kilometers of land from south-eastern Finland (Karelia) but that was all. Very different from that what happened to Baltics and Poland. Sloppy writing, I'd say, any history book would have told that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.248.253.138 (talk) 22:12, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 97.117.38.34, 9 December 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Joseph Stalin was Born on December 21st 1879 not on December 18, 1878 that is posted on here, so if you could please change this so that it will be correct, if you would like proof of his correct birth date, here are a few sites that prove this: 1. www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSstalin.htm. 2. www.pbs.org/redfiles/bios/all_bio_joseph_stalin.htm. 3. www.bbc.co.uk/history/.../stalin_joseph.shtm. 97.117.38.34 (talk) 05:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Please read note No.2 in the article. It says that 21 Dec is what he wanted to be his birthday, not what it actually was. Materialscientist (talk) 05:10, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Dzhh.

• A frightened Lozgachev asked Stalin what happened to him, but all he could get out of the Generalissimo was unintelligible responses that sounded like "Dzhh."

This is from the article, and I don't get it. Is it really encyclopedic to include what sounds people make when they're dying, especially in this manner? 89.27.21.40 (talk) 16:24, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

• • I agree that the text does not look very respectable to Stalin. Still I see a few reasons to keep it. Firstly, there are plenty of urban legends regarding the 5 March events. A first hand account by Lozgachev is useful. Secondly, somehow ironically the death of Stalin was caused by the paranoid security: despite having hundreds of people in the house he was left without any medical attention as the people were affraid to interfere. Thirdly, the last words of the dictator are somehow notable (and there are subjects of urban legends as well). Alex Bakharev (talk) 02:59, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Birth date

Is the confused birth date quite simply the result of Stalin wanting to portray himself as a) a year younger than he actually was, and b) born auspiciously on the winter solstice, when he wasn't, and is this clear evidence of his own part in his own personality cult? And are simple, original observations of this kind to be dismissed (as they have been before on Wikipedia) as 'original research?'--86.31.105.33 (talk) 19:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)