Talk:Europe

Europe is not a continent

I dont think this article should be on wikipedia. Europe is not a continent and is part of Asia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.74.90.229 (talk) 09:22, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it's part of Eurasia, I don't think anyone sees it as a part of Asia. And even so, there should be an article on it because it's a distinct, recognized geographic and cultural area even if it's not a continent. Zazaban (talk) 22:13, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I see it as part of Asia; it's Asia's largest peninsula. However, despite that, it does deserve its own article, for the reasons stated by Zazaban. 98.82.180.48 (talk) 22:59, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your opinion. However, what matters is that the vast majority of the world population that understands both the geography of Europe and the concept of continents considers Europe to be a continent. Thus, it is reasonable for this Wikipedia article to declare Europe to be a continent.68.3.203.92 (talk) 21:57, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Gevorkhagopian, 5 October 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} On the map of Europe change Armenia from being out of european borders to into European borders as my father has a very high position in Armenia and I have asked and researched about it and therefore I know that it is in Europe geographically, Gevorkhagopian (talk) 18:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Thanks, Stickee (talk) 22:08, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

References correction

As I can't do that myself without creating an account, here's just the info. The link to "State of Europe's Forests 2007: The MCPFE report on sustainable forest management in Europe" should be changed to http://www.foresteurope.org/filestore/foresteurope/Publications/pdf/state_of_europes_forests_2007.pdf

212.79.161.210 (talk) 09:59, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Definition

Is there some special reason why the Benelux is not included in the definition? I think it is traditionally considered as such, so if it is excluded, at least a reason should be given. 88.159.66.26 (talk) 23:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

You will have to be more specific. In what way do you think the Benelux countries are excluded in the article? --Saddhiyama (talk) 15:59, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Organizations accesible to the European States

Proposition: There should be a section enumerating and describing the names and purposes of ALL the various organizations which are accessible for countries (ie. the Member States) in Europe, such as the EU, EFTA, NATO, CERN, WEU, OSCE, Council of Europe, WTO, G8, G20, ITU, UN, etc, etc. From the standpoint of this article: "Europe" (not the "European Union"), the focus in such a section should lie explicitly on the several European States to clarify and compare in which organizations each of the various states (for example Britain and France) are a member, this is in contrast to looking at the various organizations (for example NATO) in order to see all countries who make up the Member States of that particular organization, or to looking at each country alone to see which organizations that particular country belongs to. It is important to have a comprehensive comparison chart of all the organizations (and their purposes) affecting the countries on the European map since each of all these organizations in the end refer to the same Member State, and ultimately, to the same taxpayer. Such comparison of the European States, and the organizations they constitute, should be clearly expressed in a table enumerating all the European countries on the leftmost column and the membership of all the organizations in the subsequent cells to the right of each country, but also be visualized in a single map with different colors depending on which (and how many) organizations each country is a member, with the EU/NATO map as a template (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EU_and_NATO.svg). Alternatively, such a section could be an article in its own right: the "European States" which would then link to both "Europe" as well as all the organizations, such as the "European Union", "NATO", etc. 83.177.143.118 (talk) 02:07, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 218.186.9.232, 22 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Regarding WWI and II, the article is written in a very one-sided view, from a western perspective, as the majority of english language pages are. Just to see if this will work:

- Russia did not suffer a defeat in the WWI - due to internal discontent, the country decided to withdraw from the conflict and negotiate a piece agreement with Germany. Compare that with the true defeat of Germany in WWI/II or Japan in II - very different stories;

- Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed after numerous months of failed negotiations between USSR and UK/France - this is not mentioned as per usual;

- To complete a full picture, next to 27 million perished Soviets, I would mention 0.9 million UK and US victims combined.

218.186.9.232 (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Also, which sources are provably wrong? Thanks!   — Jeff G.  ツ 02:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

- Regarding the Pact:

Negotiations between USSR and France/UK started on 10/04/39, and by August 39 no workable solution had been reached. As a few examples, England objected to a list of guaranteed protected countries, inclusion of the Baltic states and Finland in the list, non-possibility of a separate peace agreement. They ultimately agreed to all points, but valuable time had often been wasted.

In July UK sent Admiral Drax to Moscow - a person who did not have any powers to decide upon important issues nor commanded any respect from the Soviets. Furthermore, UK took the longest route possible, by sea, to deliberately delay and sabotage a possible positive outcome. (Source - Great Soviet Encyclopedia (GSE) "Second World War" and ru.wikipedia.org on Molotov-Ribbentrop pact).

Importantly, it was known that whilst talking to the Soviets, London (Chamberlain through Wilson) was also secretly talking to the Nazis about possible non-objection to the latter's "interests" in the Eastern and South-Eastern Europe in exchange for non-aggression. Brits were also prepared to allow Germans to exploit their colonial African possessions. (Source - GSE)

This clearly showed Stalin West was playing a double game and could not be trusted.

Following the despicable appeasement of Hitler in the case with Sudetenland, even in March Stalin was furious at 18th VKP(b) summit: "some countries, fore-mostly Britain and France, refused to collectively provide a defence against the aggressor" and was disinclined to get involved with countries that used others only for their own benefit. Hence USSR was between the rock and hard place - they chose Germany.

In summary, the statement "the Germans turned to the Soviets, and signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact..." should be complimented "...after difficult negotiations efforts between the three powers of USSR, France and Britain could not proceed due to the political unwillingness and contrasting priorities of all parties." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.186.9.232 (talk • contribs) 18:30, 23 November 2010 (UTC) 218.186.9.253 (talk) 05:42, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Dear Moderator/s, Re: the above Pact, I note neither my suggestion has been implemented, nor at least any acknowledgement issued in the last 2 weeks. Does this mean you only allow information that represents a biased Western view? So much for freedom of speech and any sense of honest discussion... 218.186.9.253 (talk) 14:12, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Could you simply propose here the sentence you want to write and indicate which sentence it ought to substitute? Tomeasy _{T C} 20:16, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Isn't it what I did two weeks ago - please see above. To reiterate, the statement "...the Germans turned to the Soviets, and signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact..." should be complimented "...after difficult negotiations efforts between the three powers of USSR, France and Britain could not proceed (collapsed) due to the political unwillingness and contrasting priorities of all parties." This is to provide a fuller picture and dispel an underlying misrepresentation that the Soviets colluded with Hitler out of their own will - it was simply a political inevitability after UK and France showed their cynicism and indecisiveness.

218.186.9.253 (talk) 19:06, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Your proposed change would convey a lot of judgment. This is not what an encyclopedia is about, and personally I reject your proposal on the basis of WP:POV. E.g., "difficult negotiation efforts" or "political unwillingness" or "priorities of all parties". These are all your opinions, and rather difficult to be proven as facts. Tomeasy _{T C} 19:13, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

It's true, "political unwillingness" is but an expression, perhaps just my opinion. Factually, it would have been truer to write of the collapse in negotiations due to secret negotiations of Western powers behind Stalin's back whilst smiling to his face...didn't want to ruffle feathers too much. Of course, "...Germany annexed the Sudetenland. This move was HIGHLY contested by the other powers" sounds very factual and accurate. Don't publish the truth...No wonder some choose to re-write the history and/or exclusively present it in a self-suited way...They have good educators... 218.186.9.253 (talk) 20:14, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

This comes down to one question. Can you verify your opinion to be true. No sources no change. We can't risk any original research. Defianetly on something like this. − Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 20:35, 7 December 2010 (UTC) As per Wikipedia rules, pure facts, indisputable and verifiable: Please add to the statement "...the Germans turned to the Soviets, and signed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact..." the following: "...after 4 months of discussions between the three powers of USSR, France and Britain on dealing with Nazi Germany in Europe, had not proven to be successful." (Sources - Great Soviet Encyclopedia and ru.wikipedia.org). This would remove any implied half-truths and at least make two versions of wiki (ru and en) comparable. 218.186.9.253 (talk) 06:13, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Transcontinental countries

These have been discussed extensively in the talk archives and a consensus has long been achieved. Very occasionally and periodically this can lead to disputes on the status of Russia, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia, etc. Transcontinental country has a natural ambiguity associated with it which cannot be resolved on wikipedia, where a completely neutral position is taken. The main map, its colouring, caption and footnotes reflect that neutral position. Mathsci (talk) 00:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

I have nothing against the present wording now that you have maintained the sources. Regards.--Polgraf (talk) 02:17, 10 January 2011 (UTC)